Brits fighting in Israel

[headhurtstoomuch]

Will their British citizenship be revoked? Here is Tamara being glorified in the DM while the likes of Shamima Begum was crucified.

What's the difference between what either of them did because I can't see any and neither should be allowed back.

This is such a ridiculous comparison - no matter what you think of the IDF, it's ludicrous to suggest that this soldier's decisions bear any relation to Shamina's whatsoever.

Even if she wasn't an Israeli citizen and resident doing her national service, then I still don't think there would or should be any come back on her travelling from the UK to Israel to join the IDF. People with Ukrainian heritage went to fight against Russia and were largely reported on positively. That's a far better comparison beause the UK government support Ukraine and they support Israel. They do not support ISIS and they do not support Hamas.

What individual Bristish citizens think of political or conflict situations is irrelevant to what other citizens are allowed to do in law. It totally depends on the country's official view as decided by the current government.

Why is Israel not a democracy? Is a state only a democracy if it’s one that you approve of?

Which democracies do you approve of?

Notimagain, how many more defenceless children are you going to justify the murder of? If the IDF were genuinely only targeting combatants that argument could be justified. Instead IDF are going after the whole population using the the human shields argument to justify the slaughter, knowing there is no way escape of defence.

Any country operating as an apartheid like Israel is not a democracy.

That’s not what I asked. And you know it.

Please don't put words into my mouth, let me be clear, the loss of innocent life is to be deplored but it happens in pretty much every armed conflict.

Having got that out of the way it's clear some posters find it hard to recall events as far back as Oct 7th but it's maybe worth trying since it's relevant to the OP.

If it wasn't for the acts of IDF soldiers such as Tamara in defending southern Israel on Oct 7th against the Gazan army Hamas attack the death toll amongst innocent men, women and children would have been much higher than (?)1400.

Despite Gaza not having an air force rockets were fired towards Israel within the last 48 hours, so Hamas still intend to try and take Israeli lives.

Given the above I don't think anybody should be ashamed of being in the IDF and I certainly don't think there's any comparison between the Brit/Israeli tank commander's situation and that of Shamima Begum.

Notimagain I believe you must have a conscience if you are trying to justify to yourself the awful slaughter of civilians that cannot escape or defend themselves. Of course it’s unjustifiable and it’s only going to get worse as the humanitarian crisis hits and more IDF atrocities are revealed. I think you will have to keep justifying all this to yourself.

This.

I find this thread quite disgusting.

I have reported it, deliberately inflammatory ( against guidelines ) misinformation.

@WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps

"Why is Israel not a democracy? Is a state only a democracy if it’s one that you approve of?

Which democracies do you approve of?"

She obviously approves of all the shining examples of democracy modelled by Islamic nations in the Middle East. Oh wait...

" I believe you must have a conscience if you are trying to justify to yourself.."

I don't think that came out right (my conscience is fine), but in any event you really have no idea whether the "if" applies or not do you?

No, just ignorant about what genocide means and its purpose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_recurrence

Notimagain I think they’re are people on this thread who honestly do not care about civilians being slaughtered because of their own islamophobic beliefs, you just gave me the impression you weren’t one of them but maybe I was wrong.

As an outsider (not Jewish or Islamic), I feel more affinity to the Islamic faith than to Judaism. But I don't see Jews needing their own Wiki page for this sort of thing. Or at least, it wouldn't be such a long list, and so incomprehensible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamicterrorism

Ah, so now it's not kumbaya anymore, it's attempts to denigrate posters you don't agree with by playing the ......phobic card.

I’m not sure what you want notimagain? Everyone to agree that it’s ok for Isreal to keep doing what it’s doing? That this level of civilian slaughter is ok and should keep happening? I realise that venting my frustrations on here to people that justify the unjustifiable is a pretty pointless activity. I just wish IDF would stop killing children, don’t you? Calling it a war does not make it ok.

@headstone
That this level of civilian slaughter is ok and should keep happening?

You do understand what happened on 7 October? And Hamas's commitment to repeat it until Israel is destroyed (because it gets in the way of their sacred vow to expand the Islamic state)?

What would you like Israelis to do?

Again it's more of the 'Israel are evil and shouldn't be doing what they are doing' etc. What is your solution to the conflict? You understandably want Israel to put down it's arms but then what?

There must be a better solution than this if one has the belief that all lives matter. There was no immediate threat after October 7. There is no justification for the revenge taken on a civilian population.

Nobody will answer you. People have been asking this for weeks. Tumbleweed every time.

Hamas said they would do it again and again. Its charter calls for the destruction of Israel. Iran has clearly for the wiping out of all Jews. There were 3000 Hamas fighters involved in the attack. When they returned they were cheered. Of course there was an immediate threat after 7th October. As you well know.

This is disgusting misinformation.

There was no immediate threat after October 7.

Do you have the faintest idea what happened on Oct 7?! or are you just binge-watching TikTok videos of Gazan babies?

I don't even live in Israel and I'm not even Jewish, and I find it hard to sleep in bed at night thinking about the sadistic cruelty they have endured.

I'm in my 60s and this is the worst shit I can remember being reported in my lifetime.

Rwanda was similar, but at least it was similar cultures attacking each other, so a basic shared understanding of the rules of play. (Not to underestimate those horrific atrocities.)

Rurik Jutting was another horror, but he was just one individual sicko. This is a whole society.

I’m not sure what you want @headstone ? Everyone to agree that it’s ok for Hamas to keep doing what it’s (sic) doing? That this level of civilian slaughter is ok and should keep happening? I realise that venting my frustrations on here to people that justify the unjustifiable is a pretty pointless activity. I just wish Hamas would stop killing children, don’t you? Calling it a freedom fight does not make it ok.

How about not letting babies die in incubators?
Telling people to flee south then annihilating them on the way?
Bombing hospitals?
Cutting off water, electricity and not allowing aid in?
Are you people really that evil or stupid???

I've seen plenty of people answer this question, I have myself. Then the answer being ignored by Israels fans because it involves treating Palestinians like humans and that's just not something they are interested in.