Documenting the horror that is Hamas

[Brumbies]

vm.tiktok.com/ZGedgv8DA/

Do you really think the Israeli regime attacking the people in Gaza is not acting out of similar vitriol and hate as demonstrated by those two women?

Given that the most recent thead of the discussion has been the extreme mass sexual violence, I am finding these blatant distraction attempts quite gross.

I don't give a fuck about two woman shouting shit in New York or wherever it was. It has nothing to do with this thread at all.

@XRAYTHIS I'd agree with some of your points, but would again highlight there is nothing special about Hamas. There are many other organizations and states in the area with similar goals and techniques.

And again, to give balance, don't forget the other side
https://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2023/october/ethnic-cleansing-in-the-west-bank

Hard to see the possibility of peace in that area.

I think two wrongs (hates) don't make a right

I also think you are practicing whataboutism yet again because that was not what the conversation was about when you interrupted talking about torture and rape.

Look it worked we are now not talking about what you want us to avoid talking about. However you have shown no empathy and a lack of understanding for the serious trauma we were talking about. So I would be very ashamed if I were you.

@XRAYTHIS wrong Neve post...ooppss... meant this one on Human Shields https://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2023/december/on-human-shields

Agree @SomeCatFromJapan

And FYI @ScrollingLeaves it wasn't that people didn't believe you, rather that people expected evidence. Your post was vague.
The evidence has been provided now and my view remains the same. It's disgusting.

@Trulywonderful well said. And on point.

May I suggest the whatabouterers take their 'arguments' to the I Feel Sick thread and stop trying to derail this one

I think thexi feel sick thread is about rape?

@XRAYTHIS that's the last place they are going unfortunately.

There is a theme we see with the treatment by Hamas in Israel of women and children and how ISIS treated its supposed enemies and indeed how the Taliban does. Hamas = ISIS is not a bad analogy. Even Pakistan is fed up to the back teeth with the Afghan Taliban that it is in the middle of expelling 1.7m Afghans at the moment.

Yes, I read she said she felt nothing but “pure hatred” and thinks no one in Gaza is innocent, not even babies. So this goes back to experiencing trauma causes a person to feel hatred. There are over 20,000 injured children. Over 8,000 dead children. That is a lot of hate being created by IDF towards Israelis.

Hundreds of Britons joined ISIS too.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231229-hamas-meshaal-did-not-say-we-will-recognise-israel/

Yet whilst the above link is the situation what on earth is the likelihood of lasting peace. Hamas it seems still only want a ceasefire to rebuild weaponry and plan their future attacks. Never ending madness.

Yes and we call them terrorists not resistance or freedom fighters. What exactly is your point? We have either imprisoned them on return or not let them return. They did not have an opportunity to join the British army as far as I know. Unless you know otherwise that is?

The statement in full that you linked to seems to be saying they do not recognise the legitimacy of Israel’s occupation of the Palestinian lands per the 1967 borders? And that they want the ceasefire to end the occupation? Not to rebuild weaponry and keep attacking?

”“Our clear position is not to recognise the legitimacy of the occupation; we took a lesson from the Oslo Accords,” Meshaal said in the text, adding: “In 1993, the PLO leadership recognised Israel, which did not give it anything in return.”
“Through the 2017 document, Hamas confirmed its position in national consensus with the Palestinian factions regarding the establishment of a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders with Jerusalem as its capital and the right of return and without us recognising Israel. As for the issue of the truce, it is negotiable,”

My point is that you can have the most democratic society and it will still create malcontents that decide to join terrorist organisations like ISIS. The post, and others, have implied that Palestinian culture is Islamic Fundamentalist and it isn’t. They do not view women as “brood mares”. To think that you’d have to be blind to the female diplomats, political leaders, surgeons & doctors, professors, journalists, tech workers, farm owners and so on.

You why they have corrhave deliberately or not deliberately missed the bit where it says

without us recognising Israel

This is something they have said all along and continue to say. That even if the go back to the 1967 proposed borders and agree a ceasefire on those terms they still won't recognise Israel's right to exsist. That is why the they say this man spoke out of turn and are correcting what he said. Hence why this deal would only ever last until the next attack etc and I despair at the situation

Yes, but that goes back to not recognising the legitimacy of the occupation. Of Israel as their current rulers. If they did not recognise Israel’s right to exist, then why is their position to have the 1967 borders between a Palestinian State and Israel?

That’s what his statement is saying Hamas want. If it were true that Hamas does not recognise the right of Israel to exist on top of not recognising their right to occupy, then they would not be saying their position is the 1967 borders, but the 1930 borders- the Mandate of Palestine, pre Israel borders.

Of course, I’m not saying Hamas is telling the truth, so it’s not like I trust that they would stick to the 1967 borders. So all I am saying is their public position of end the occupation and 1967 borders would require recognising Israel’s right to exist, but no right to occupy or rule over them.

I haven't said anything like that myself but it was me you tagged. I was just saying that Palestinians had joined ISIS and it makes sense some would have returned with tactics and ideology that is more ISIS. That is the just of what I was saying anyway.

So still no idea why you tagged me talking about British people joining ISIS. Anyway I will just assume it was a mistake.

I literally have no idea why you are talking to me about the rest of this post either. Have I spoken about Gazen women or Muslim women like they can't have careers or a life. I get I can be a bit forgetful sometimes but that is not how I speak about women.

Plus I think I probably have more knowledge of the Gazen educational system and what happens in Gaza than most. So yet again no idea why you tag me with this.

I can literally tell you stuff about the universities and that the literacy level in Gaza is higher than the world average. However nobody ever starts a thread about these things or wants to talk seriously about the politics in Gaza or what the civilian population actually think. It apparently is better for people that believe in exstemist ideology or useful idiots to presume what Gazens are like and want. Just like they assume what people that opposes Hamas think about the conflict or Gazens. A lot of assumptions going on lately. Please don't tag me about stuff I have not said or things you presume I think.

Yes, you didn’t characterise the entire culture in such a way, it was other posters.

But you asked what was my point, when I answered by saying Britons joined ISIS too to your post about hundreds of Palestinians joining ISIS which was like a cherry on top of a series of posts denigrating Palestinian culture by conflating it with Hamas.

You tagged me. You asked me what was my point, I was answering your question. I don’t understand why you are telling me not to tag you when you tagged me and asked me a question?

The have said repeatedly they will not recognise the state of Israel. The wording here is to fool western idiots and it works most the time doesn't it.

Hamas is very clear in public speeches and interviews recognising Israels right exsist is literally against everything they believe. That any ceasefire or agreement of borders is a temporary thing until Israel falls. Nothing I have said here is not available if you do some research and watch videos of their various leaders over the years and today.

I have done research as well on Hamas and I don’t agree that they have said for decades that they do not recognise Israel’s right to exist, that is a very different thing from not recognising the State of Israel as your legitimate overlord.

It is important to not spread misinformation by putting your own spin on the actual words Hamas’ says. Nowhere in what they said do they say they do not recognise Israel’s right to exist. The context of end the occupation and the 1967 borders is an explicit recognition of a State of Israel because the 1967 borders have a State of Israel.

Nor have they said that any ceasefire would be just temporary, in fact they have asked for a permanent ceasefire.

Because I am answering your tags because polite like that

I explained why I asked you what was your point too. However that was more me saying "what on earth are you on about this isn't relevant ". So a bit like me rolling my eyes

I also roll my eyes at you commenting about me adding information to a conversation. I can do that without being part of the whole conversation or saying what you seem to suggest in one of your post I said.

Seriously just read people's posts and comment on them if relevant to that post. Also read articles and take in everything that is said in them. This whole conversation could easily have been avoided and you have wasted both are time with it