Page 25 | Documenting the horror that is Hamas

Trulywonderful · 28/12/2023 19:02

Parkingt111 · 28/12/2023 18:52

Alot of what you have posted above about the Quran is incorrect. Can I ask your source for the above please

And the Hafs recitation is based on the Qureishi dialect which was the dialect of the Prophet peace be upon him and most of the companions at the time.

There are no major differences in the meaning even within the different dialects that the Quran was revealed in to accommodate for this. How the verses are interpreted can vary but these are scholarly differences and each will have their explanations for that.

There are many specialists including one In my own wider family who has studies extensively and can read the Quran in the 10 dialects and can tell you that there are no major differences in the meaning.

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Honey I am always respectful of yours and others beliefs even as a non believer. So I think you know I don't normally talk about my knowledge much and won't get into it all on mumsnet. Sorry if you take offence at what I wrote.

Parkingt111 · 28/12/2023 19:06

@Trulywonderful not offended at all, and I know you are very respectful of all religions from what I have seen of your posts.
Just wanted to point out that some of the points regarding the Quran were incorrect

stomachamaleon · 28/12/2023 20:44

www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-hamas-israel-sexual-violence.html

Please read this if you can.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 28/12/2023 21:04

I read it earlier. Absolutely unbearable.

anotherlevel · 28/12/2023 21:20

The discovery of a Qur’anic manuscript in the University of Birmingham has made headlines worldwide as it is thought to be one the oldest anywhere in the world.
Radiocarbon testing of the manuscript, which is written in the Hijazi script dates it between 568 and 645 AD (24AH) and there is a possibility it was written by a companion of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). Though the Qur’an was transmitted orally the Prophet instructed some companions to write it down on parchments leaves. Islam’s third Caliph, Uthman (may Allah be pleased with him) was the first to compile the whole Qur’an into one canonical corpus.
So how does it compare to the Qur’an of today? Below is a comparison of a part of the manuscript (the beginning few verses of Surah Taha):

The above graphic shows that they are identical. No words or letters are out of place. Muslims consider the Qur’an to be the word of God and hold it to be a living miracle. Its preservation is mentioned in the the fifteenth chapter:

ilmfeed.com/how-does-the-earliest-manuscript-of-the-quran-compare-to-todays-quran/

Whilst there maybe different dialects, the meaning of the Quran hasn't changed a single bit not this day unlike the Bible.

anotherlevel · 28/12/2023 21:22

Apologies I forgot to tag and quote @Trulywonderful in my last post

Trulywonderful · 28/12/2023 22:01

anotherlevel · 28/12/2023 21:22

Apologies I forgot to tag and quote @Trulywonderful in my last post

No idea why you tag me. I have said it isn't a conversation I will have out of respect for peoples beliefs and I definitely will not be debating evidence to disprove peoples religious beliefs. So no need to tag me at all really.

Trulywonderful · 28/12/2023 22:03

stomachamaleon · 28/12/2023 20:44

www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-hamas-israel-sexual-violence.html

Please read this if you can.

Read a bit but you know me I can't stomach much more reading about this

The nightmare just goes on for so many people

stomachamaleon · 28/12/2023 22:20

I should have said. It's horrific. And horrifying that the New York Times had to do a two month investigation until women were believed. The silence from the UN sickens me.

Please don't read it unless you are prepared. Actually how can you be prepared? I just feel in hindsight I need to say something.

anotherlevel · 28/12/2023 22:22

@Trulywonderful I tagged you because I wanted to show what I was referencing in my last post. Sometimes people answer questions or discuss something and the post they are referencing gets lost amongst others. And also because what you said about the Quran wasn't correct, I know this as I am Muslim.

XRAYTHIS · 28/12/2023 22:43

stomachamaleon · 28/12/2023 22:20

I should have said. It's horrific. And horrifying that the New York Times had to do a two month investigation until women were believed. The silence from the UN sickens me.

Please don't read it unless you are prepared. Actually how can you be prepared? I just feel in hindsight I need to say something.

Gal Abdush. The name of the lady. Raped, murdered, burnt. Filmed by someone searching for survivors, with dress torn, knickers down, vagina on display, face burnt with hand over her eyes. May she never be forgotten. What Hamas or a Palestinian man/men did to her at a festival. Sick..

runningpram · 28/12/2023 22:43

There is something deeply wrong in a society where young men can rejoice in committing such awful
crimes. What are they being taught by their
parents and schools, why do they hate
women and girls so much?

untitledmum · 28/12/2023 22:50

What I find the hardest to comprehend, and very frightening, is that there were Pro-Palestinian protests around the world, including the UK, before Israel had even started its counterattack. What were those marches if not pro-Hamas?

etmoiandme · 28/12/2023 22:50

stomachamaleon · 28/12/2023 20:44

www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-hamas-israel-sexual-violence.html

Please read this if you can.

I read this. It's awful but vital.

Trulywonderful · 28/12/2023 22:53

XRAYTHIS · 28/12/2023 22:43

Gal Abdush. The name of the lady. Raped, murdered, burnt. Filmed by someone searching for survivors, with dress torn, knickers down, vagina on display, face burnt with hand over her eyes. May she never be forgotten. What Hamas or a Palestinian man/men did to her at a festival. Sick..

Edited

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Owen Jones will tell you that isn't enough proof

Sad vile little man

stomachamaleon · 28/12/2023 22:57

@XRAYTHIS wasn't just Hamas though was it? Just normal Palestinians. Capable of so much and it's denied.

It is so important @etmoiandme whoever difficult to is to read and digest.

Trulywonderful · 28/12/2023 22:58

runningpram · 28/12/2023 22:43

There is something deeply wrong in a society where young men can rejoice in committing such awful
crimes. What are they being taught by their
parents and schools, why do they hate
women and girls so much?

I have no doubt some will have got this from the people around them that are supposed to guide them on the right path. However in this day and age young men are getting this from the internet plus in Gaza their own leaders too. The type of exstemist ideology they believe allows some pretty sick things under the umbrella of it being a conflict etc

XRAYTHIS · 28/12/2023 23:00

stomachamaleon · 28/12/2023 22:57

@XRAYTHIS wasn't just Hamas though was it? Just normal Palestinians. Capable of so much and it's denied.

It is so important @etmoiandme whoever difficult to is to read and digest.

Yes, I mentioned hamas and Palestinian men. Ordinary men also raped. They cheered and praised their God.. they are all sick.

stomachamaleon · 28/12/2023 23:04

@Trulywonderful I wonder of that's something to do with the lack of positive male role models in Gaza? Whenever the Hamas ran health board give numbers on deaths they are always women and children so I assume.... there are non? Or otherwise engaged? Which is odd as statically there are more men than women I believe.

anotherlevel · 28/12/2023 23:06

untitledmum · 28/12/2023 22:50

What I find the hardest to comprehend, and very frightening, is that there were Pro-Palestinian protests around the world, including the UK, before Israel had even started its counterattack. What were those marches if not pro-Hamas?

The first protest was on 15th October 2023.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023 Israel%E2%80%93Hamasswar protestssin theeUnitedKingdom

Israel declared war on 8th October and by 13th October there had been 1300 fatalities in Israel and 1900 fatalities in Gaza.

All the protest have not been pro Hamas. They've been about showing solidarity with Palestinians in Gaza condemning the high rate of civilian casualties in Israeli attacks and calling for a ceasefire.

Trulywonderful · 28/12/2023 23:07

stomachamaleon · 28/12/2023 22:57

@XRAYTHIS wasn't just Hamas though was it? Just normal Palestinians. Capable of so much and it's denied.

It is so important @etmoiandme whoever difficult to is to read and digest.

I think we need to be careful because obviously a large percentage of Gazans do support Hamas and often celebrate horrific things. If there are 30 thousands fighters in Gaza and they have families and friends then obviously there is a lot of support there. However there is obviously a large percentage that are neutral or don't support Hamas and probably feel as sick as we do about some of the horrific stuff. Basically yes some civilians are very complicit at the least bit that is unlikely to be everyone Gazan by a long shot. Plus kids are kids even if at the moment they have some horrible ideology that has been pumped into them. Just like in Nazi Germany maybe those kids can be saved and re-education yet. I do get where you are coming from though and it is difficult when people act like all Gazens are innocent etc

SomeCatFromJapan · 28/12/2023 23:14

I remember the mass denial of those sexual assaults. Twitter. Owen Jones. The UN, in their silence. On here, again and again.

No apologies now either.

I knew, after seeing that first clip of the treatment of Shani Louk, that there would be mass horror like this revealed.

Trulywonderful · 28/12/2023 23:17

stomachamaleon · 28/12/2023 23:04

@Trulywonderful I wonder of that's something to do with the lack of positive male role models in Gaza? Whenever the Hamas ran health board give numbers on deaths they are always women and children so I assume.... there are non? Or otherwise engaged? Which is odd as statically there are more men than women I believe.

Plenty of men about in the videos from Gaza. Just the way the numbers are presented I believe

In the UK we have a problem with teenage boys and young men getting radicalisation over the internet. A lot of mystogistic stuff out their. Even worse than the Andrew Tate bloke. At school we have training to spot and deal with it etc. I believe this is now a problem all over the world wherever boys and men have access to the Internet. Therefore this male behaviour or cheerleading of it isn't just something confined to places like Gaza. That is one of the reasons I worry about the evidence of the rapes being public. A horrific amount of people out their will be getting a kick out of what happened during the pogrom and is likely to still be happening to some hostages

Trulywonderful · 28/12/2023 23:21

untitledmum · 28/12/2023 22:50

What I find the hardest to comprehend, and very frightening, is that there were Pro-Palestinian protests around the world, including the UK, before Israel had even started its counterattack. What were those marches if not pro-Hamas?

You mean the people celebrating in the streets of London etc straight after don't you

I agree it was very sick and twisted. No defence of such behaviour but people will try

https://news.sky.com/story/met-police-step-up-patrols-after-number-of-incidents-in-relation-to-israel-and-gaza-conflict-12979772

Met Police step up patrols in London as people accused of 'glorifying terrorist activities of Hamas'

Scotland Yard has said it is "aware of a number of incidents, including those that have been shared on social media, in relation to the ongoing conflict in Israel".

https://news.sky.com/story/met-police-step-up-patrols-after-number-of-incidents-in-relation-to-israel-and-gaza-conflict-12979772

stomachamaleon · 28/12/2023 23:28

@anotherlevel

By far not the only example of 'just after'
Celebrating murder, rape and violence.