Documenting the horror that is Hamas

[Brumbies]

vm.tiktok.com/ZGedgv8DA/

What Hamas did on Oct 7 was heinous and utterly unacceptable - they are grave war crimes and they should be tried in the ICC.

But you cannot predicate a genocide on the back of these crimes. Many seem intent on using the horrors of that unspeakable day to justify the murder of an entire people - and that is unacceptable.

Interestingly there is another thread that comments on hatred in Palestine, it's generational, handed down.

If Hamas was just a political party supporting them wouldn't be illegal.

So it follows that al-Qaida are not terrorist for committing 9/11 either. They too must be a "political party with a military wing whose attacks on civilians constitute terrorist acts."

Seriously? Hamas want to murder, rape, terrorise and annihilate. They are the definition of terrorists.

It is a mass social movement, a prominent part of the fabric of Palestinian society

The Palestinian society will need significant reform in order to live peacefully alongside their neighbour Israel, won't it?

This. It is truly disgusting to see people try to characterise rape and torture as 'resistance'. I've read about the Israelis who were killed and kidnapped on October 7th and so many of them were actively working for peace.

Hamas are despicable. Two and a half months later and some of those images just stay with me.

Hamas is not a terrorist organisation pure and simple

Are you in the UK? Because you're apologism for Hamas sounds like you support them, and you know that's illegal, right?

Watch this and then come back and tell us Hamas isn't a terrorist organisation.
https://twitter.com/HeidiBachram/status/1740131202257084513

It is a mass social movement, a prominent part of the fabric of Palestinian society

And there goes all the hard work of the posters saying Palestinians and Hamas are not the same thing.

Well done OP.

@ritenuto when asking yourself previously “how in earlier moments of history people found reasons to approve of or allow the mass murder of civilians” I think it’s clear you would have been nodding along with that other well known resistance group, the Nazis, as they heroically fought the Jews who caused the Great Depression, controlled the banks, the media and threatened the German way of life with their oppression and plans to take over the world.

Hamas is not a mass social movement- mass social movements don’t steal from the people they claim they’re freeing to enrich their leaders and cronies, keeping the vast majority of their population in poverty and subjugation. They don’t use billions of aid dollars to build weapons factories, missiles and tunnels. Murdering, torturing, raping and injuring thousands of civilians is not the hallmark of a mass social movement.
Hamas is the ruin of Gaza.

@ritenuto Do your friends and family know you sympathise with a terrorist organisation? Or do you only defend Hamas when safely anonymous on the Internet.

Has mumsnet deleted the account of however said that? And reported to the police?

It is illegal in the ok to support Hamas and deniel of them being a terrorist group plus anything else they may have posted can earn them a police visit. The police can use their Internet details to get an address etc if they thinkit warrents a visit. They do it all the time my nephew is a police officer.

@Trulywonderful it's been reported.

Cool

As a Palestinian Christian priest he is allowed to speak for his congregation by saying “we will not accept your apology after the genocide”

I see there has been a bit of a row:

The right to defend yourself against terrorist attacks, whether foreign or domestic is enshrined in international law.
Asserting Israel’s right to defend itself doesn’t mean you support genocide or that you agree with Israel’s government’s shock and awe scorched Earth tactics that kill tens of thousands of civilians and go beyond self defence.

The right to resist military occupation is also enshrined in international law.
Asserting Palestine’s right to resist occupation doesn’t mean that you support terrorist organisations like Hamas or Islamic Jihad or that you agree with these organisations’ terrorist tactics that kill thousands of civilians and are an illegal method of resistance.

I presume certain posters did cross the line from asserting rights into supporting genocide/terrorism and so were deleted.

But let us not tar all those who support the legal rights of Israel and Palestine with the same brush.

He is allowed to say what he likes but long-term the Christian Bible speaks about forgiveness. So it does strike one as a little odd in general. However he can tell his followers whatever he wants or whatever he thinks will get bums on seats in his church it is what he is paid to do after all.

Not accepting an apology doesn’t mean there is no possibility of forgiveness. It usually means that it is a serious transgression that will require more proof of regret and acts of contrition.

In everyday life yes but we are talking the Christian Bible here. So yes though things can be asked for or given without asking. However forgiveness is a basic fundamental of the Christian religion even without someone repenting for their sins etc. It was just an odd way for this bloke to speak considering his job.

I have studied all free Abrahamic books but am not religious, though I do have an interest in religion. Think that stems from watching religion be used by dodgy men to push ideologies that harm others.

“However forgiveness is a basic fundamental of the Christian religion even without someone repenting for their sins etc.”

Only a few Protestant Christian sects adhere to any concept of forgiveness without repentance. None of these are in that part of the world, as in Palestine the Christian majority are Greek Orthodox, Catholic and Armenian- none of which are Protestant.

You cannot understand Christianity by reading one version of one Bible. You also need to read all the Bibles and the theological writings of their sects’ leaders, past and present.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12907109/Freed-Israeli-hostage-Mia-Schem-says-Gaza-terrorist-went-holocaust-held-prisoner-not-just-Hamas-civilian-families-interview.html#newcomment

Same situation with the Quran. Different sects and them there are 30 different readings of the Quran with 93,000 differences between each. The standard one now is (Hafs) is number 25 in the order. It was picked as the standard in 1924 by a university teacher. Hafs wasn’t even one of the official 10 readers. Also, there are currently at least 26 different versions of the Quran circulating the world. So you do get variations in beliefs or interpretation of rules etc and that is before you get to some iffy leaders interpretation similar to other issues of iffy leaders in other religions.

If I remember correctly Catholics are even more into the idea of forgiveness than Protestants. However I don't really know about Greek orthodox etc. So maybe you are right and they don't forgive very easily. Anyway interesting conversation, thanks.

I doubt that was their first account and it won't be their last.

Saying Hamas are a resistance group and not terrorists is crossing a line yes. One that more and more people seem to be okay with crossing.

I see she was held in a normal household with terrorists around with women and children present as she and others were held against their will.

Similar to the recounts of others then.

Alot of what you have posted above about the Quran is incorrect. Can I ask your source for the above please

And the Hafs recitation is based on the Qureishi dialect which was the dialect of the Prophet peace be upon him and most of the companions at the time.

There are no major differences in the meaning even within the different dialects that the Quran was revealed in to accommodate for this. How the verses are interpreted can vary but these are scholarly differences and each will have their explanations for that.

There are many specialists including one In my own wider family who has studies extensively and can read the Quran in the 10 dialects and can tell you that there are no major differences in the meaning.