Documenting the horror that is Hamas

[Brumbies]

vm.tiktok.com/ZGedgv8DA/

@Hellenika thank you for sharing that

The Israeli President Herzog stated “There is no struggle more just than the war against the terrorist organisation Hamas, which brutally and barbarically murdered Jews, as well as Muslims, and those of other faiths and nationalities.” https://twitter.com/Isaac_Herzog/status/1740050924037460046

So it appears that not even Israel thinks that Hamas targeted victims on the basis of their ethnicity alone.

Oops meant to add screen shot.

Presumably referring to the number of Christians in Gaza decreasing in recent years.

Today, only about 800 ish remain, a sharp drop from the 3,000 recorded in 2007, when Hamas took full control of the enclave.

Many Different reasons for the fall but the last direct violence against Christians was in 2007, when the very last Christian book store in the entire Gaza strip was fire bombed, and destroyed. A elderly couple that owned the store, were captured and executed.

Direct violence has mostly ceased. Christian women have mostly decided to ware head coverings, which allows them to be overlooked as Christians. Equally most men have decided to grow beards again to help blend in when out and about.

Church leaders there, have formed friendships with Imams in the area and this helps to mitigatetany threats.

Also the church do as other Christians around the world do in practice, that during the prior conflicts between Hamas and Israel, the church was opened to all as a shelter for refugees and the injured.
The Christians also helped bury the dead. This has helped to gaining some sympathy from the population.

However saying all that there are still some issues and shunned in public affairs (celebrations and community events), Work place discrimination etc. Apparently they are often treated worse, paid less. So it is in fact possible that like Jews in the middle east and the UK the
Christians in Gaza could be concealingly their religion. So maybe there are still more Christians there than figures suggest, who knows.

@Trulywonderful
I did find this specifically focussed on Gaza. It does corroborate a lot of what you say.
https://www.persecution.org/2023/11/15/beaten-down-but-not-forsaken/

It is an odd slogan to use, because typically when there is racism, it would be about the privileged party?

Are you saying you think that Jewish people have privilege?

While it is true that Hamas don't currently have the capabilities to wipe out Israel, the Israelis can't risk another 7 October. It was bad enough, there's no way they can risk another thousand or more of their citizens and guests being raped, tortured, maimed, slaughtered and kidnapped.

On that basis it's not feasible for Hamas to continue their control of a piece of land that borders Israel.
Everyone insisting "ceasefire now" should be aiming that at Hamas. Because they won't be in charge of Gaza by the end of this. How long until that day is, is up to them really.

@Hellenika@Trulywonderful that makes sense that the decline is down to a couple of factors rather than one single thing or event. Which includes the struggles of living as a minority aswell as the vast struggles of living under the blockade, which I think is often overlooked at how dehumanising such a life actually is. The focus is normally on the economic struggles of life under blockade but most forget the mental affect it has.

Right now from what I have seen there is alot of unity between all the Palestinians regardless of faith or differences. They are all united in just trying to survive and help each other however they can.

That should say unity between the civilians. I have heard that there is a rift between some of the different Hamas factions but don't know as much about that

This poll shows that a big reason for Christian emigration is the occupation! I urge you to listen to the Christmas message from Rev. Munther Isaac of the Lutheran Christmas Church in Bethlehem - I worry his church will be targeted now for him speaking up.

I don’t know anyone who wasn’t profoundly moved by it on a day that we were opening presents, eating heartily and spending time with loved ones, whilst Bethlehem was bombed.

I won’t degrade the thread by posting the appalling videos of how Christians are treated in Jerusalem by Jews.

https://x.com/hzomlot/status/1738990971122008371?s=48

From Rev Munther Isaac of the Christmas Church in Bethlehem:

‘Your charity and words of shock after the genocide won’t make a difference, and I know these words of shock are coming and I know people will give generously for charity, but your words of regret won’t make a difference… we will not accept your apology after the genocide. What has been done has been done. I want you to look in the mirror and ask, where was I, when Gaza was going through a genocide?’

The survey was only nine hundred and something people and 90% of those were in the west bank. We have been talking about Gaza I believe. Well at least me and Parking have been.

So interesting but as a face to face (Issues with honest in in surveys doing this) survey mostly of people in the west bank not really very conclusive one way or the other.

The issues the west bank have compared to Gaza does overlap in some places but are very different in others.

@Trulywonderful it's like having the same conversation on repeat.

@ritenuto The language and framing you’re using is deliberately calculated to confirm bias.

Source please for your claim that Bethlehem was bombed. You’d think that would have been important news, if it had actually happened.

If you’re referring to the Aljazeera article with its not at all leading title; Israel hits Bethlehem in Christmas raids on occupied West Bank, which mostly then reports on IDF raids in Jenin and Nablus (neither of which are near Bethlehem), with a brief mention of Regions in and near Nablus, Jericho, Ramallah and Bethlehem – which Christians believe is the birthplace of Jesus Christ – were also raided overnight by Israeli forces, Al Jazeera’s Hamdah Salhut reported.

Additionally, this is how the Israelis are dealing with the appalling behaviour exhibited by some Haredi towards some Christians in Jerusalem, which has been roundly condemned from all sides, and is not in any way accepted or normalised behaviour:

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2023/10/04/five-jewish-extremists-arrested-for-spitting-at-christians-in-jerusalem/

It is all part of our Jewish privilege at the moment apparently. We get to repeat the same conversations / explain the same things again and again like groundhog day.

(Actually I don't mind most the time. If I did I just wouldn't post or reply. Not a total masacist)

Totally off topic but if anyone is in London and wants to see a musical Groundhog the musical was amazing. I thought I was being taken to something which would be hellish but Tim Minchin did the music and that made it fantastic of course.

A reverend stating no apology, has he read the Bible? He presumes to speak for 'God'

@25milesfromhome to be fair a Hezbollah anti-tank missile hit a church in northern Israel over Christmas. I don't think anyone died but 10 people were injured. Maybe people have got muddled up with that somehow. It is like social media twisted whispers out there at the moment.

I find it slightly offensive that a source such as Al-Jazeera is seen as deficient. Everyday, I open 4 x UK broadsheets and some days you would be forgiven for thinking there was nothing much happening in Gaza. Predictably, only The Guardian will give a voice to Palestinian suffering (although opinions across the board are hardening).

On Christmas Eve, around 11:30 UK time (2:30am in Gaza), there was an influx of horrific images on my social media feed. I couldn’t process what I was seeing, so appalling were the images. I went over to The Guardian who reported 20 minutes since that the IDF had bombed the UNWRA Meghazi refugee camp- what I was seeing was the carnage in real time. It was unimaginable, incomprehensible.

Dead children, toddlers and babies covered in grey ash, being carried around, their lifeless limp bodies hanging from shell-shocked parents who wander around in a confused daze amidst hellish destruction all around, the terror, the fear, all under the cover of night. The following morning on Christmas Day, it was if I had imagined the whole thing.

Most of the posts had been deleted, accounts had been suspended, and the massacre was very lightly reported. Nothing of the intensity and sheer horror I had witnessed had been conveyed. Of course it had been decided that we should not want to wake up to these images on Christmas morning. 80 killed in one single strike. The Israeli government announced: we will investigate what happened. What callousness these words are uttered with time and time again.

So forgive me if I no longer trust to gain all my information from western media outlets that clearly do not value Palestinian lives.

The language and framing you’re using is deliberately calculated to confirm bias

The language I’m using is plain English.

At the height of the Black Lives Matter movement during the pandemic, whilst we were all locked down in our homes, I paid attention and spent the following year devouring black history, reading black authors, watching documentaries, attending exhibitions in the preceding years, and educating my kids about a history that wasn’t spoken about.

The week following October 7th this year, I put the Israeli flag on my profile pics to show my support for the grieving. I was utterly horrified. I had made sure my kids were reading age-appropriate Holocaust literature from Year 5 (and argued with a teacher that The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas was racist in that it gave the German child a voice and a story/life, but not the Jewish child in the camp). I admitted, like many, I found the details of the ‘conflict’ confusing. So I started reading and listening. I have read Israeli historians amongst others, and books about antisemitism. But what struck me strongly was the courage of so many Jews that have taken a stand and risked alienation from friends and family, from their communities, to speak out against Israel.

These courageous individuals will be shut down as ‘self-hating’ Jews, again, another odd device like the slogans that are thrown at anyone who disagrees. It’s such a hurtful and hateful
thing to do- if one shows their humanity then they must hate themselves. It is of course non-sensical. But then again so is much of the censorship tactics. I have read so much that it is the policies of Israel that are the real threat to Jews and what makes them feel unsafe- not the Palestinians.

There is actually a thread documenting the IDF actions. This one is specificially about Hamas' actions so I don't think it's fair to derail it like this.

I have read so much that it is the policies of Israel that are the real threat to Jews and what makes them feel unsafe- not the Palestinians.

Given what happened on 7 October, that's quite the statement.

@XRAYTHIS very love and forgiveness over the festival Period.

@25milesfromhome we know it wasn't bombed. It would have made mainstream news if that was the case. And Al jeezerah is a heavily bias site and at the end of the day here for the clicks.... the later article confirms bombs no where near Bethlehem.

@ritenuto don't belittle people by posting repetitively gruesome stuff to provoke a reaction. People can seek it out if they need to. This is a parenting site and a discussion forum. It's just upping the anti. And so unnecessary.

How does an emotive, exploitative description of a bombing in Gaza address the issue of you falsely claiming Bethlehem was bombed?

How does your offence at seeing Aljazeera deemed deficient (is that what I said?) change the fact their headline was inaccurate and misleading?

No- he said he speaks as a Palestinian, and both Muslims and Christians are Palestinians oppressed under the occupation and apartheid.