To wonder how people justify the west Bank settlements

[Pizfufffff]

I am not an expert on the Israel Palestine issue. I did do my dissertation on the legalities of expansion of Israeli settlements under international law years ago so I have some knowledge of the issue. I have always wondered how people justify the expansion of settlements in the West Bank. This is not to cause an issue or start an argument. I'm genuinely really interested in hearing opposing views.

Ignorant person’s perspective, if that’s what you’re looking for-

I assumed that
Israel is densely populated and needs to expand.
The land was gained in a defensive war with a neighbour.
Strategically/geographically Israel is really vulnerable with a blooming great chunk out of the side.
There would be an obvious advantage to mixed communities of Palestinians and Israelis managing to coexist. (Optimism).

I’ve been lurking trying to understand the situation. Superficially at least, it seems that attacking Israel is an own goal. And I understand Israel following that policy. If only they could be gracious in victory.

I have no skin in this situation, and no previous knowledge. As I say, an ignorant person’s perspective if that’s of interest!

There is alot of injustice done to the Palestinians in the occupied west bank
Going into it would be writing another essay. Unfortunately even those like America who criticise it don't really follow it up with action so i often just see it as empty words
However those who have been following the news of the war will see that president Biden has been mentioning a two state solution almost every few days
This doesn't seem possible whilst most of the illegal settlements remain so it will be left to seen if anything comes out of this

But it's important to remember that the Likud party's stated aim is to eliminate any possibility of a Palestinian state, and to expand settlements as part of this. This is the agenda of the government and is what the Israeli population has voted for.

Thank you, yes!

"Fear" is definitely a major theme in the entire occupation operation, I would strongly agree! I won't ever forget how I realised at some point that armed-to-the-teeth soldiers standing next to their actual battle tank were, literally, terrified of me (unarmed, extremely European looking, slender and petite woman).

On the face of it, of course, it's factually just ... if not "100% wrong" then at the very, very least "blown out of all proportion and irrational in terms of its extent". Israelis are, statistically speaking, way more dangerous to Palestinians than vice versa (look at literally any metric of your choice).

But in practice, I think it is highly relevant and needs to be addressed if there is ever going to be any resolution to this conflict. You're just not going to give even an inch to someone if you have somehow genuinely convinced yourself that their one and only goal is to kill you and everyone you've ever known and loved - to do so would go against your very survival instincts.

Palestinians, by the way, don't seem to really have this, ... I guess I'll call it "existential panic". Yes, many absolutely do believe Israelis want to kill, torture, maim, imprison and ethnically cleanse them, but on the whole, I have experienced them as "a lot less afraid" nonetheless.

@stormy4319trevor although that is their aim and they only see a one state solution I'm not sure about the majority of the Israeli population voting for them

Wasn't there quite alot of opposition when Netanyahu formed a coalition government with them?

Il leave one of the Israeli posters or someone with more information to clarify that If I am wrong

There was another poster on one of these threads who said they work with a charity that workss with palestinian and Israeli children in the Occupied west bank
I don't think they were a regular poster and I can't remember their name but I would be really interested to know what work they do and if it includes in anyway the topic we are discussing it now
Just putting this message here incase they come across it and see it

@Parkingt111 The Likud party (Netanyahu's party) stated these aims in 1977. So anyone who voted for Likud votes for this. Yes, he's formed a coalition with other parties, and I can't say much about that at the moment - as I don't know their founding charters. Maybe someone who knows the history of governments in Israel could help.

@Parkingt111 Netanyahu did not form a coalition with Likud. Likud is Netanyahu's party. Likud is a party opposed to a Palestinian state and that aims to expand settlements. Netanyahu's Likud party received the most votes in 2022. However, that's about all I know!

There's plenty of people within Israel who don't support them either.

I think many people who live there believe the land was given to them by God so they're entitled to live there. They were there first as it were.

Others may not think this but the land is cheaper (or used to be) or they were given incentives to live there.

This

What a dangerous woman

Oh really I didn't know that
So which is considered the far right party?

@Parkingt111 Ah, I don't know. Likud is right wing, but I haven't looked into the other parties, who I suppose are further to the right. I would think these are the parties that the public objected to, though.

There are a whole bunch of them, arguably the most prominent ones within the present givernment being Jewish Power (Ben Gvir's party), Religious Zionism (Smotrich's), and Noam.

That said, today's Likud should really also be seen as "way too the right" from what even that of Sharon (until 2005). They're typically not classified as "far-right" because of their neoliberalism on "all things other than Palestinians".

This. The settlers believe they don't need to abide by any rules because God gave them permission to live there. The terror group Hilltop Youth terrorize Palestinians, driving them out of the homes by shooting/attacking/storming the house, set up illegal (even in Israeli law) gate posts which basically are the beginning of a new settlement. They basically then claim ownership of the land. The government then gives them permission to stay there and grants them ownership. Settlers basically are a law of their own, the IDF stand back and let them get on with it. It's just legitimized murder/land grabbing/intimidation with the goal to expel Palestinians and take over the WB.

There's a very interesting and balanced Louis theroux documentary on the subject from about 10 years ago.

BBC iplayer. www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00ybyxp

Thanks for that, I love Louis. Will be interested to see how you can 'balance' illegal land grabbing.

I personally against them too. Those that do settle put themselves and their families at great risk of attacks. All too often there are dreadful attacks and murders. Horrific too. Some settlers are idealistic/religious and others do it for economic reasons. It's much cheaper to buy there, for many it is the difference between a small flat and a large house with a garden. We have friends who settled for economic reasons. It is not far over the line but far enough. They live in a village surrounded by razor wire with armed guards. Two army check points to go through to get there. Our friends are armed.

Yep, it's horrific. It really is disgusting that settlers are just allowed to get on with it. It may be illegal, but they're still there...

I watched the LT documentary, I challenge anyone to watch it and claim Israel is not an apartheid state. My blood was literally boiling at that man Daniel, arriving 5 minutes ago from Australia and saying the land was his and the Palestinians living there had no claim to it and should just find somewhere else to live.

Yes large house with garden for the Israelis and a tarpaulin tent for the Palestinians, because they were forced off their land to make way for the large house with garden 😞

Definitely NOT watching that! I have seen it in real life, and my ex-BIL has a scar to prove it. I don't need a brain aneurysm tonight, I'm far too young to die still!

Back on topic, though, I was just speaking with a Palestinian friend of mine and asked him this very question. He's got a relevant doctorate and is just, generally speaking, a very well informed person and my favourite on analysis. He, literally, explains British politics better than I do, and he has never lived in the UK. I was interested in his perspective, so I asked him.

His take:

• basically a lot of things that have been mentioned on this thread already (policy, ideology, religious conviction, economics, ...)
• "but, ultimately, it's because they genuinely think we matter less"

Plus blaming Palestinians for them having to live with barbed wire - this takes away from their freedom I assume

My point feral and chaitales is that settling there is not the right thing to do. I'm not defending it, or blaming Palestinians. I was describing how it is in some settlements - just adding to the discussion about why settlers go there. I do not agree with settlements.

No i understand that and appreciate the honesty. Was making an additional observation of how they decry the wires but fail to see how they have literally gone and kicked a family out without seeing the irony of the situation