People With Very Strong or Definite Views on the 'Right' Side

[miniaturepixieonacid]

This is mainly me being curious and struggling to understand my own feelings on all this.

I am neither Jewish nor Muslim (I'm a Christian) and have no links to Israel or Palestine. So my knowledge and understanding of the recent past is, perhaps wrongly, quite limited. All I feel is horror and sadness at what is happening to both sides in this conflict. (Other than feeling that the particular Hamas men who committed the 7th October atrocities are evidently evil and knowing that Netanyahu is very right wing of course.) I support a 2 state solution but know I don't understand all the complexities. I'd love a ceasefire but have no idea if that's possible or even advisable.

On this board and elsewhere on Mumsnet there are so many people who have come down very strongly on one side or the other and have lots of apparent evidence and knowledge to support their opinions. So, I'm wondering, if that's you, are you:
a) Israeli and/or Jewish or have family/friends who are?
b) Palestinian and/or Muslim or have family/friends who are?
c) Neither religion with no links to either country but have very clear opinions and lots of knowledge regardless.

I don't know where to go for accurate information or if knowing what I think is right or wrong even matters. I'm obsessively following the BBC but know it's probably not completely unbiased.

That doesn’t justify repeating the same for Palestinians. Your post sounds like you’re justifying the killings of Palestinians by stating that 6 million jews were massacred and no other group of people have died in such great numbers. The Palestinians didn’t massacre them.

i don’t know which category I belong to, but I can’t justify the importance for Jewish people to have a homeland at the cost of innocent children’s lives. Would any sane person even want that for themselves. Even if Israel manage to destroy and remove all Hamas and Palestinians, would you want to live there knowing what you’ve built your life on? The blood of innocents?
Too many children have paid for this war with their lives. Too many children have had their childhoods taken from them. If any survive, they have no one left and most end up joining Hamas or whatever resistance movement exists in Palestine.
I just can’t see the death of children anymore. Israeli or Palestinian children. Children broken, dismembered and dead. These images will remain with me for the rest of my life. It’s definitely changed who I am as a person.

Where did this ‘ideology’ from Israel come from though? Not that I’m agreeing that there even is one.

Palestinians were a massive security risk to Israel long before Oct 7th. The constant rocket barrages which made the iron dome necessary, the suicide bombings and stabbings, the goal to wipe Israel off the map and kill all the Jews, the children’s terrorist training summer camps, kindergarten children being taught that they will be martyrs if they kill Jews, the voting in a terrorist group as a fucking government!

Which ideology came first do you think?

Here’s a clue - the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.

the voting in a terrorist group as a fucking government!

Aw not this again 😂

OK yes but Palestinians live in fear of their home being stolen, daily humiliation, children killed and imprisoned, white phosphorus weapons, break ins in the night by IDF, settler violence that goes unpunished etc. It works both ways.

Hi OP this is an interesting thread although I would be wary of it being perceived as muslim vs Jewish although I don't believe that was your intention

I am B. I am for a two state solution and wish to see a peaceful co-existance with two separates states.
I find it hard to see people dismissing or minimising the suffering of the Palestinians. Years of suffering in their homeland and its not something I can ignore. This cause is close to my heart and one I have grown up with and therefore do have strong views.

Saying that I think some of my opinions have changed slightly or you could say i have had to actively make myself try and view things from both sides based on some posters who are willing to put forward their arguments in a respectful way and show they dont hate all palestinians as then you don't automatically go in defence mode.
It's also not been always been easy to do so, because of the hurt I feel right now when day in day out all I see and read is killing of thousands of civilians and children.

I'm not anti Israel but I am quite open about my opinions on the Israeli government especially Netanyahu and the actions of some of the IDF and I think at times people can conflate that as insulting the Israeli people. But then I'm also open about how I don't think Hamas are good for the people of Gaza.

I have also been inspired by some of the peace activists in the kibbutz and think some of them are the most loveliest people which makes what happened to them all the more terrible.

I sometimes feel drained and feel I should stop posting for my own sanity, I can't be the only one who feels like that. I pray this war doesn't turn me into a bitter person. There's so much hate and fighting everywhere and so little love and understanding and compassion

I really really just want this war to end. I want all the hostages to be re united with their families. I think it's a shame that in this conflict they often come as an afterthought. I want all those detained without trial and charge to be released.

I want to see the day where the Palestinians finally have the right of self determination. They are not human animals. Their children are not feral. They are normal people like you and I who just want to live a normal life
They are some of the most resilient people I have come across

A picture sometimes speaks more than a thousand words. I call this resilience

I'm not denying any of that happens. I just feel like people often forget "the other side". I also think there's often, but not always, more to the story when these things happen which is also often not mentioned. When it comes to settlers in the West Bank, I think they should be removed. One of the problems though is that some Palestinians and pro-Palestinians seem to think all Israelis are settlers 🙃 It's just not very helpful rhetoric, is it?

Sorry OP I didn't realise it would turn into an essay 😄

Did they not then? Or are you going to insist that Hamas forcefully took over Gaza and the Palestinians had no say in it. Not like they haven’t had 17 years to get rid of them. Israel would probably have helped if asked and the UN agencies were there all that time.

Or are you laughing because Hamas are not a terrorist group in your opinion?

What a lovely, humane and considered post.

One of the problems though is that some Palestinians and pro-Palestinians seem to think all Israelis are settlers 🙃 It's just not very helpful rhetoric, is it?

Well I don’t. It’s not the people it’s more the government isn’t it?

Israel would have helped the Palestinians get rid of Hamas in the last 17 years?

Now that is funny 😅

I’m Jewish (though not religious) have spent time in Israel, and like a poster above would say I’m pro-Israel but not anti-Palestine. The tragedy of the conflict is that both sides are 100% right - they should both be able to live in that area of land.

One of the things I’m finding most depressing is the characterisation of Israel and Israelis as evil warmongers. Israeli society is complex, I do watch the pro-Palestinian marches and wonder how many people on them even know that the peace process stalled in the 1990s partly due to the assassination of Israel’s left wing PM Yitkhak Rabin by another Israeli - an extremist right wing settler.

Did they not then? Or are you going to insist that Hamas forcefully took over Gaza and the Palestinians had no say in it.
They were voted in some time around 2005, 2006? A while ago now. And yes Hamas did forcefully take over Gaza and no the Palestinians had no say in it

Not like they haven’t had 17 years to get rid of them. Israel would probably have helped if asked and the UN agencies were there all that time.
My understanding is that good old Bibi actually wanted Hamas around so he could play them off against the Palestinian Authority.

Or are you laughing because Hamas are not a terrorist group in your opinion
No just exasperation* *

I've not seen large numbers of anti Israeli strategy as I would expect tbh, even on here, it does seem a lot of pro-Israeli supporters and/or Jewish people, are quite dismissive of the factual information about Palestinians plight.

Even in your first para, you say that Israeli are living in fear, which I accept. But you don’t comment on the fear that Palestinians are also living in, also that by virtue of being the occupied, they have much less opportunity to protect themselves, iron dome or otherwise.

I can and do sympathise with the fear everyday Jews and Israeli’s must feel, there will of course be serious and daily trauma, which they need to defend themselves against. But I can’t see how this is any worse than the trauma experienced by Palestinians who have much less opportunity to protect themselves. You could argue that the existence of hamas demonstrates that Palestinians are protecting themselves, I don’t agree with that but even if it were true, how can we claim that that is different to want Israel say they have been, and continue to do?

I agree that change in government and ideology on both sides, is needed and will take a lot of work to achieve. I guess though, I’m not seeing that either side equally accepts that that is what is needed, in a way that makes that remotely possible.

I don't like going into too much detail on MN but I'm B - no longer Muslim, have been non-religious for much longer now. Of Palestinian descent, live in the UK and have done for most of my life now. thankfully no family or friends currently in danger.
I have nothing against Jewish people or Israeli civilians. I do not and never have supported the Israeli government or the IDF.
I want to see Israel and a free Palestine exist peacefully side by side.

I didn't dispute any of what the poster was saying about the struggles the Palestinians have. My whole point was the point you're now trying to make back at me 🤪 That it's awful on both sides.

I can't feel anything other than bafflement and horror. For both sides.

I think it's hard for the average Briton to understand the religious zeal that applies in Israel and Palestine, it's not just about finding a workaround.

Mostly in the UK it seems to be a proxy for left wing/right wing battles and the debates are tedious and pompous (eg political parties thinking hammas cares what motions they vote for)

Christrian, support Israel and Democracy as indeed does the UK and USA.

@Parkingt111 don't apologise, it was really interesting and thought provoking to read your thoughts and experiences. I can't even imagine how draining it must be to see so much hatred and hopelessness everywhere when it's personal to you so totally get the need for post breaks and looking after yourself. Thank you for sharing.

And no, I very definitely did not intend to set Jewish and Muslim mumsnetters against each other and, if this thread goes too much that way, I hope I'm deleted! 😬

I wouldn't say it's mainly about religion. It's about land. Israel has been breaking the 1967 deal for decades, stealing land in the West Bank and keeping the people of Gaza under siege since the mid 00s.

Same as the northern Ireland conflict wasn't actually about religion though it was often described as such. Again, it's about land and the right to self determination.

@miniaturepixieonacid oh no don't worry I'm sure you didn't
It's actually a very interesting thread to so thank you for starting it

@stormy4319trevor thank you

Actually I was wrong that Israel would have helped rid Gaza of Hamas. It seems they were the ‘best’ of a bad bunch according to this very interesting summary from before the current conflict:

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/why-israel-is-stuck-with-hamas/

I'm a British Jew married to an Israeli.

I have very strong views that this war is necessary to rid the world of Hamas and to approach some sort of long-term solution to this generations-long issue of statehood for both the Jews and the Palestinians.

I am horrified (but not exactly surprised) at the rise in Anti-Semitism, and the lack of sympathy for the hostages. The rabid anti-Israel sentiment on Mumsnet; the vitriol of certain posters whose names I see come up time and again on these threads. The fact that there isn't outcry about other global conflicts and issues such as the Afghan refugees. How people don't seem to understand that Hamas want all Jews dead; that is the only genocide in this issue.

My friend's twins were murdered on kibbutz Be'eri. My husband's childhood friend was taken hostage from the music festival. Every Jewish person I know is affected - either they know someone who was killed or kidnapped. It all feels very personal.