Freedom of speech you say?

[Ohlalalalala]

So it's OK for famous/ less famous people to back one side but not OK for others to back another side?

These are just a few examples of how pressures/ firings are directed at those criticising Israel. Is this normal? What the heck is happening? Is this to silence anyone from voicing what they think is the truth?

BBC News - Melissa Barrera: Actress fired from Scream 7 over Israel-Gaza posts
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67494374

Susan Sarandon
https://deadline.com/2023/11/susan-sarandon-pro-palestinian-remarks-uta-dropped-1235632398/

Agent Maha Dakhil
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/tom-cruise-agent-maha-dakhil-palestine-b2451581.html

I would have understood if they imposed a kind of blanket gag order on all actors/ celebrities not to discuss the conflict.

But!

This is happening while hundreds of others publically supported Israel and were instead celebrated.

McCarthyite witch hunt, I say.

This.

You’re allowed to say anything you like, but you will be taken more seriously if you have taken the trouble to understand the issue in the round and offer opinions that are reasonable, balanced and constructive. Bandying around terms like genocide and apartheid is not done with the aim of achieving mutual understanding, it is done to ‘win’ the argument.

Even if international organisations, holocaust survivors and their families and political analysts call it apartheid and genocide?

This

It isn't part of constructive conversation is what the poster is saying. Talking about details and issues is a constructive conversation. Most posters don't seem to understand this and just what to point score or something. Hence why every few posters they feel the need to say at least one of a certain group of words

Finally! For once I totally agree with your post quoted.

In my OP I said "I would have understood if they imposed a kind of blanket gag order on all actors/ celebrities not to discuss the conflict. But! This is happening while hundreds of others publically supported Israel and were instead celebrated."

It's the double standard that is infuriating, hypocritical and totally unjust. If it was the same treatment for everyone why would I or anyone else mind?

Why Amy Schumer’s Israel-Gaza posts were corrected by MLK’s daughter
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/amy-schumer-instagram-israel-asia-jackson-b2441108.html

"The comedian and actor is using her large Instagram platform to campaign on behalf of Israel’s operation ... She’s also sliding into the DMs of other actors who criticised her posts and prompted pushback from Dr Bernice King, the daughter of Martin Luther King Jr.

"Amy:

Certainly, my father was against antisemitism, as am I.

He also believed militarism (along with racism and poverty) to be among the interconnected Triple Evils.

I am certain he would call for Israel’s bombing of Palestinians to cease, for hostages to be released…"

“It’s so crazy to me how Bella & Gigi had to tiptoe around their statements and then Amy Schumer is like ‘Gazans are rapists’ and will still have a career,” actor Asia Jackson wrote on X, formerly Twitter."

It is genocide and it is apartheid. The experts have been saying it for a long time now. It's all there for anyone bothering to see. Don't let anyone silence you.

To be silent is to be complicit.

Some experts have sure. Others disagree. There is by no means a clear consensus which is why constructive discussion is necessary. It is self-evidently not as straightforward as you are making it seem and anyone in power who takes this position, particularly the ‘apartheid’ one, is going to be a major road-block to peaceful coexistence.

I dont understand why
Killing 12000 people, including children at a daily rate faster than many conflicts in history, is okay and not an obstruction of peace process
But calling it genocide is an obstruction to peace?

So words matter, but actual actions do not?

The people who aren’t calling it genocide are not necessarily saying it’s ‘ok’ but you can imagine that if you consider it to be a defensive, or even an existential, war that puts a different complexion on things. You may not agree with people who think that but it becomes clear why the word genocide would be a blocker.

Thank you. We are being told that words are blocker. actually doing the mass murder, including of 5000 children is not a blocker. People fleeing their homes and being shot at is not a blocker. Children dying in incubators is not a blocker. Amputating limbs and having c sections wo anesthesia is not a blocker. Being told to go south for safety and then bombed is not a blocker. falsifying evidence in hospitals, schools and under children's beds is not a blocker. Beggars belief. Off this thread now. May Palestinians and all humans get justice peace and joy, from the river to the sea and across the oceans, Forever.

Saying that Palestinians have a right to their homeland is anti semitic and violent, apparently. Using the words free Palestine has been discussed on here as jumping on a meaningless bandwagon. The anti Palestine vitriol on here is incredibly disheartening and sad.

@Sprench I agree with some of your points but I disagree with it being a blocker for peace. I think if those responsible accepted it for what it is or even how grave the situation is then there's a greater chance the war would take a different turn rather than continuing the way it is. Which in my own opinion is a much larger blocker for peace.

The remaining palestinians would be traumatised and far less trusting of the government who has killed many of their families and friends to want to form a peaceful co-existence with

You are misrepresenting the argument. It is only anti-Semitic if you want to free Palestine by eradicating the Jewish state.

I’m just saying that discussion of these things is more constructive if people say exactly what they mean. Eg “Israel’s military action is resulting in suffering and not helpful to achieving peaceful co-existence”. Or if you actually believe it’s genocide, “I think Israel are deliberately targeting civilians”. This is much easier to discuss than inflammatory slogans are.

I agree with you that it is necessary for the Israeli govt to face the suffering in Palestine, but they will never agree that is genocide because they will not agree that they are deliberately targeted civilians.

@Ohlalalalala I don’t agree that there are double standards, the article quotes you posted above demonstrate there were also consequences and very public pushback for Amy Schumer-has work been flooding in for her since then? I can see on her Insta that she’s also apologised for posting the offensive cartoon, acknowledged the hurt it caused and removed it. She posts just as emotively as anyone else and sometimes she gets it wrong, which should be criticised. She’s a self-appointed spokesperson who I haven’t paid much attention to. Also, Bella Hadid in particular has not been tiptoeing around her statements in any way to her 61 million followers. I don’t really see
anyone publicly supporting Israel being “celebrated”, mostly they get a ton of abuse, much of it antisemitic.

Transferring the oppression of the Palestinians onto the celebrities speaking out about the oppression of the Palestinians is still coming at it from a biased viewpoint. They’re not being censored or oppressed for expressing their pro-Palestinian views, while “Pro-Israelis” are allowed to run rampant and unfettered across the internet with their emotive rhetoric unreasonably asking people to tone down their antisemitism.

Melissa Barrera’s contract wasn’t terminated because she spoke out about Palestinian suffering, it was terminated because she used biased, inflammatory rhetoric, including Holocaust distortion and a (conceivable)trope, which her employers found to be unacceptable. Susan Sarandon chose to use the suffering of the Palestinians as an opportunity to expose her bigotry. Her agency declined to work for her because they don’t want to be associated with a bigot. Their language and actions were their choice. Choices have consequences.

Exactly how is Israel an apartheid state? I'm asking that in the full knowledge that there is at least 1 apartheid state in the region that is also responsible for the deaths of far more Palestinian people than Israel is claimed to have been but is never, ever criticised by those who say they care about Palestine.

@Alltheprettyseahorses You say the WB belongs to Israel, but you have a population living there who can not use certain roads, can not enter certain districts, and do not have passports, voting rights, or many other rights that are granted to Israelis. If the WB is Israel then why are the residents treated differently?

I know about the history of the West Bank. It was previously annexed by Jordan and was then won by Israel in the 6 day war in 1967. It belongs to Israel

So the Israelis are attacking their own civilian population and stealing their land and homes, while denying them the vote and insisting they use passes to be able to travel within Israel. I think that makes it worse.

Are you talking about Palestinian people ie not Israelis? It's pretty standard to have border controls and not to give the vote to foreign nationals. That's not apartheid, it's normal.

Who has to use passes? Foreign nationals? Passports and visas are standard essential documents when travelling to another country. How is Israel stealing its own land, that doesn't even make sense!

@Alltheprettyseahorses So you are saying that Israel has owned the WB since 1967, how can there be any foreign nationals? And as there is no Palestinian state, how can they be nationals of it?

Sprench

You attribute way too much power to words and severely underestimate the killing and discrimination of civilian population. Words matter in that they describe what is happening.

This is not a war because a civilian population cannot defend itself and cannot surrender. You prefer to call it an existential war as a euphemism perhaps for the end of the existence of the people of Gaza, but if you think that peace is going to be decided or discarded because Coyoacan use the term genocide and apartheid to describe genocide and apartheid, when I can even get my own children to obey me...

Hear hear

LOL at last line 😂

The team are four of the brightest young people in the country. They have an encyclopedic knowledge of signs and symbols. The octopus was a poor choice