Freedom of speech you say?

[Ohlalalalala]

So it's OK for famous/ less famous people to back one side but not OK for others to back another side?

These are just a few examples of how pressures/ firings are directed at those criticising Israel. Is this normal? What the heck is happening? Is this to silence anyone from voicing what they think is the truth?

BBC News - Melissa Barrera: Actress fired from Scream 7 over Israel-Gaza posts
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67494374

Susan Sarandon
https://deadline.com/2023/11/susan-sarandon-pro-palestinian-remarks-uta-dropped-1235632398/

Agent Maha Dakhil
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/tom-cruise-agent-maha-dakhil-palestine-b2451581.html

I would have understood if they imposed a kind of blanket gag order on all actors/ celebrities not to discuss the conflict.

But!

This is happening while hundreds of others publically supported Israel and were instead celebrated.

McCarthyite witch hunt, I say.

IMO it is racist to say that the Jewish people should not be allowed a homeland. But even if you don’t agree with this, it is clear that many anti-semitic tropes have just been transferred onto the concept of ‘Zionism’. For example ‘zionists’ having disproportionate power; ‘zionists’ having a secret conspiracy; ‘zionists’ being disloyal to their own countries.

Imagine the good old-fashioned racist idea of black people being less intelligent, but instead of people talking about ‘black people’ they start talking about Africans. Maybe saying they’re poorly educated or something. Yeah, you can argue that you’re not talking about black people in general, but it’s pretty clear where you’re getting your ideas.

I see what you are saying and I can see why it might be used as a cover for antisemitism. The problem arises when someone genuinely wants to differentiate between the two and then gets accused of AS. It's like Jew and Zionist are very loaded terms now? (And I know some Jewish people don't like the term Jew, but many do use it).

I know about the history of the West Bank. It was previously annexed by Jordan and was then won by Israel in the 6 day war in 1967. It belongs to Israel, if it didn't it still wouldn't be Palestine. They're the facts. I have no need to read bizarre and often anti-semitic threads full of drama llamas trying to outdo each other in their really odd attempts at creative writing.

Sorry - that should have had a post attached from feralunderclass at 12.56 yesterday

The west bank is occupied territory. Where Israel are the occupiers.
Where they also continue to build illegal settlements breaking international law which the government really doesn't seem to be bothered about. But then that's the Israeli government for you
Quick to point out others mistakes but rarely any accountability of their own
Let's hope after this war a new government who actually wants to see peace come into power

'mistakes'??!!???

@firstpasttheposter and yes
In reference to mistakes I mean in general terms of things that have happened prior to the war in the occupied west bank
I am not referring to the atrocities carried out by Hamas as a mistake

The denial on these threads that Palestinians have rights to their land is unreal!

OK, fair enough. I think most people agree that any settlement has to involve a certain amount of Israel giving up land - just not to a state run by Hamas.

@firstpasttheposter this is a short interview by a previous Israeli prime minister. He isn't squeaky clean himself and is ofcourse fiercely pro Israel but I think it's a good insight into where things have gone terribly wrong in the west bank and how these actions are a real hindrance towards a two state solution

https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2023/3/16/23639947/palestine-netanyahu-israel-protests-ehud-olmert

@Dinkydaisy1 I know! And there isn't even a term for it
I was discussing it with another poster the other day who despite being pro israeli could see where i was coming from
So denying that Jewish people should have Israel as their homeland is anti semitic.
But denying that palestinians have a right to a homeland their too is what? Just an opinion? One is condemned but the other isn't

The West Bank was won by Israel from Jordan in 1967. In what way is it 'occupied?'

From the interview

“We can’t afford to continue to live under circumstances where there are millions of people without rights which we occupy without giving them the basic elementary rights that they deserve. It’s as simple as day,” he told me. “I feel that we’re coming close to the point where Israel will be perceived as an apartheid country.”

If the West Bank didn't belong to Israel then it would belong to Jordan. It would still not be Palestine. There is no political movement to remove Palestine as a country: Israel itself is committed to a 2 state solution. The only country whose legitimacy is questioned is Israel, as seen on all these threads. It is extremely strange.

Palestine is not Israel. It is a separate country with its own government and infrastructure. Since when are countries fully responsible for other countries? Should the UK assume full responsibility for France again?

@Alltheprettyseahorses that was the words of Israel's former prime minister
Not mine

I thought the WB was part of the UN 1947 partition plan? Jordan's occupation and annexation was not internationally recognised, and after 1967 UN SCR 242 called for Israel to return to 1949 armistice lines. I don't know what land is available for a Palestinian state if the WB is removed?

On the original topic, SM is giving us all unprecedented access to well, everybody’s thoughts really, and it’s uncharted territory. I don’t think Melissa Barrera should have been sacked, and free speech and debate is really important, but celebrities occupy influential positions and also represent the people they work for and with. As in any workplace, there will be consequences for actions deemed inappropriate and unprofessional, which will be played out in the public sphere.

It’s the responsibility of people in the public eye to be mindful of the language they use. Saying “[Israel is] brutally killing innocent Palestinians, mothers and children, under the pretence of destroying Hamas”. is using very inflammatory and prejudiced language, whilst “Western media only shows the [Israeli] side. Why do they do that, I will let you deduce for yourself,” is veering into trope territory, and I can see how some people found this offensive. Expressing support for Palestinians and bringing their suffering to light can be done without perpetuating and endorsing damaging stereotypes that will be seen by a lot of people.

In the same vein, I also wouldn’t agree with the teacher’s badge wearing in school because although her motives sound positive, it’s inappropriate.

Sorry for going off topic my mistake

"Genocide" is extremely loaded as well

What is the polite word for when two million people are trapped in a very small area and being carpet-bombed?

Israel won the land in a war. I'm not aware of any other resolutions that require victors to cede a the land they won in war.

@Parkingt111 I went off to make a coffee and didn’t see it had all kicked off before I posted!

@Alltheprettyseahorses The point is that it was part of the plan, surely. Where will the Palestinian state be if Israel wins all the land earmarked for the future Palestinian state? So, if Israel keep the WB, do you suggest the state could be made out of Gaza and East Jerusalem? What are you going to do with the Palestinians in the WB?

Palestine is not Israel. It is a separate country with its own government and infrastructure. Since when are countries fully responsible for other countries? Should the UK assume full responsibility for France again?

Gaza and the West Bank are more like Bantustans than separate countries. Bantustans were set up in South Africa so that the Apartheid regime could let people starve to death within its borders and claim that it had no responsability. Israel can cut off food, water and electricity and carpet-bomb the Palestinians and claim that it is an international war. Otherwise people would see what is really happening, a population of second-class citizens who are being killed by their own government.

We are just not allowed to use words like hostages vs prisoners or genocide vs gentle rooting out evil when it comes to Palestinians 😭
Heck, can't even stand up for Palestinian rights and ceasefire without being accused of anti semitism and minimising Jewish suffering
Its all so saddening and divisive