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Conflict in the Middle East

10/7 Denial - TRIGGER WARNING

338 replies

StDuBois · 22/11/2023 10:18

TRIGGER WARNING - (SA, infanticide, torture)

If you are not Jewish or Israeli, I implore you to read this, especially if you have been denying the scale of the 10/7 massacre.

The 10/7 massacre was live-streamed by the perpetrators on their own social media platforms.

Initially, antisemites celebrated. After more and more heinous, indefensible details started to come out, antisemites started denying it happened at all.

A PHENOMENON NOT UNLIKE HOLOCAUST DENIAL

Holocaust denial is an antisemitic and anti-Romani conspiracy that denies or distorts the established facts about the Nazi genocide of Jews and Roma.

In 1996, Gregory Stanton, the founder of Genocide Watch, wrote a briefing paper for the US Department of State titled “The 8 Stages of Genocide.” In 2012, the paper was amended to add two more stages. According to Genocide Watch, the tenth and final stage of genocide is denial.

According to the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, “Distortion of the Holocaust is rhetoric, written work, or other media that excuse, minimize, or misrepresent the known historical record.” A danger of Holocaust distortion is that from the outside, it might appear more credible than outright Holocaust denial. According to the IHRA Honorary Chairman Yehuda Bauer, “A half truth is worse than a full lie.”

Like Holocaust denial, 10/7 denial is not necessarily an outright denial that the massacre happened, but it can be a distortion of facts. For example, just like many Holocaust deniers claim that the Holocaust did indeed happen, but that it was only a plot for the Zionists to “get” Israel, 10/7 deniers can claim that 10/7 happened as a ploy for Israel to re-occupy the Gaza Strip.

Unlike the Nazis, who went through great lengths to cover up their crimes at the tail end of the war, the perpetrators of 10/7 gleefully live-streamed their war crimes and crimes against humanity.

NO, THE IDF DID NOT KILL ISRAELIS

Like Holocaust deniers of days past, 10/7 deniers are now blaming Israelis for their own massacre.

After the Israeli newspaper Haaretz published an article in which one anonymous police officer said that the police is looking into the possibility that some of the victims of the Nova music festival massacre were killed by fire from an IDF military chopper, antisemites took the statement out of context, distorted it, and disseminated it all the media and the internet.

In response to the Haaretz article, the Israeli police put out a statement that the investigation was only in regard to police activities on October 7, not military activities, and that as such, they do not have “any indication about the harm to civilians due to aerial activity there.”

The police later asked the press to “take responsibility for their publications and only base stories on official sources.”

Regardless, the conspiracy has taken a life of its own, so much so that Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas accused Israel of carrying out the massacre. Abbas later retracted his statement.

(TW)

YES, HAMAS RAPED WOMEN AND GIRLS

First, a question for the feminists: do you generally question survivors’ stories of sexual assault, or do you only do so when they are Israeli?

After the pro-Hamas crowd realized you cannot defend gang rape as a legitimate form of “decolonization” or “resistance,” they decided to deny that any such assaults took place.

While eyewitness testimony should be enough, apparently it’s not. But despite the fact that most of the bodies were charred or mutilated beyond recognition, the physical evidence still exists: “There is evidence of mass rape so brutal that they broke their victims’ pelvis – women, grandmothers, children,” according to a morgue worker.

“Many of the victims were in conditions too severe to identify, naked, and with clear signs of sexual assault,” according to the police.
In a video which was screened for journalists but has not been made available to the general public, “…a woman is unclothed from the waist down, with her underpants hanging off one thigh. She is lying face down and is dead. In another, a mutilated dead woman has her dress hitched up to her waist, with no underpants.”

The eyewitness testimony is just as harrowing. An eyewitness described an instance of gang rape: “He is here raping her…and then they pass her on to another person…she stood on her feet, she was bleeding from her back…[one of the terrorists] slices her breast and throws it on the road, and they’re playing with it. Afterwards, someone really penetrates her and shoots her in the head before he finishes. It’s not like he ejaculates and picks up his pants…He shoots her in the head while he’s still inside of her.”

“Women have been raped at the area of the rave next to their friends' bodies, dead bodies,” said a survivor of the Nova music festival massacre.

(TW)

YES, HAMAS BEHEADED BABIES

After President Biden clarified that he had not personally seen images of beheaded babies, conspiracy theorists went into a frenzy. So let’s make this clear once and for all: yes, Hamas beheaded Israeli babies.

This has now been independently verified by a group of international forensic pathologists, though the corpses were so badly burnt that it’s impossible to discern whether the babies were decapitated before or after being set on fire.

Israel showed US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken photographic evidence of those decapitations, which he has verified, and the photos, which are extremely graphic, were published to the Israeli Prime Minister’s office Twitter.

(TW)

DID HAMAS BURN A BABY IN AN OVEN?

According to an Israeli first responder and witness, Asher Moskowitz, yes: “The body hardened and, unfortunately, appeared to have also swollen…And really, the heating element of the oven was on the body itself.”

This has yet to be verified by a third party.

NO, HAMAS IS NOT HUMANE

Do we even have to say this?
After disturbing security camera footage emerged of Hamas terrorists dragging two Nepalese hostages through Al Shifa Hospital, which has long been known to be their main headquarters, Hamas apologists started praising Hamas for supposedly giving the hostages medical attention.

So let’s make two things clear: (1) you don’t get to blow someone’s leg off and then call yourself “humane” because you then got them medical attention, and (2) there are at least five other hospitals between the site where the hostages were abducted and Al Shifa Hospital. The terrorists took them to Al Shifa not because they wanted to give them medical attention, but because Al Shifa is a Hamas base.

Similarly, people called Hamas humane after released hostage Yokheved Lifshitz, 85, said that the guards assigned to her didn’t hurt her and that she was fed, received medication, and was kept in clean condition. Of course, she also said she was beaten when she was abducted, though Hamas apologists leave out that part. Additionally, her husband is still captive, so of course she wouldn’t want to say anything to the media that would jeopardize his safety. Finally, photos from before and after the kidnapping show that Lifshitz lost a drastic amount of weight while in captivity.

To reiterate: you don’t get to violently abduct civilians and then call yourself humane.

Hamas is not denying the massacre. So why are you?

(credit - Debbie Lechtman at Roots Metals)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
26
miniegg3 · 25/11/2023 13:40

Forget living in another world, I think you're living on another planet 🤦‍♀️

Murica · 25/11/2023 13:53

This thread has gone the way of most of the threads on Gaza go. Israel bad. It's getting tiresome. I hope there's a huge turnout at the march tomorrow. I hope it's peaceful and comforting and uplifting to British Jews. I hope they'll feel supported.

This bit from the first page:
Or still claiming that Al-Shifa was the 'beating heart' of hamas/their control centre, despite it being less will armed than many American homes (and metal weapons/bullets could not be in proximity to an MRI...).

Is hilarious. "Many" Sure, sure I'm sitting on a pile of guns & ammo right now.

Parker231 · 25/11/2023 13:59

Murica · 25/11/2023 13:53

This thread has gone the way of most of the threads on Gaza go. Israel bad. It's getting tiresome. I hope there's a huge turnout at the march tomorrow. I hope it's peaceful and comforting and uplifting to British Jews. I hope they'll feel supported.

This bit from the first page:
Or still claiming that Al-Shifa was the 'beating heart' of hamas/their control centre, despite it being less will armed than many American homes (and metal weapons/bullets could not be in proximity to an MRI...).

Is hilarious. "Many" Sure, sure I'm sitting on a pile of guns & ammo right now.

Most people I know are critical of Hamas and the Israeli government/IDF but supportive of the Israeli and Palestinian people.

Cashncarry68 · 25/11/2023 14:24

Nobody, whose great Grandmother were Jewish, would be walking in today's march. They would, however, be making every effort to attend tomorrow's event. There are some vehement anti Israel posters, who I believe fabricate events to suit their posts. They either know/were related to somebody who was Jewish or Muslim or the best one is they know Israel, intimately.

You cannot seriously debate also, with anybody, who purports that Hamas were oppressed and caged, to the extent they would behave as they did on 7/11.

It's like reading a first year criminology essay when you read through the emotive diatribe. In fact, I actually think I'm being generous with undergraduate degree level.

Finally, if Hamas were to have their comments read out to them, not only would they laugh at the naivety of these posters but they would actually despise them for being so weak. Virtue bloody signallers.

Stomacharmeleon · 25/11/2023 14:28

@Cashncarry68 and name change because they were busted the first time they tried it.

Cashncarry68 · 25/11/2023 14:31

Stomacharmeleon · 25/11/2023 14:28

@Cashncarry68 and name change because they were busted the first time they tried it.

Ah yes, I'm suspicious of quite a few name changes. That's clear to see on the support for Israel Christmas thread.

firstpasttheposter · 25/11/2023 14:43

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SomeCatFromJapan · 25/11/2023 14:51

How would you feel if you were caged in with no rights to leave, no chances in life.

I know how I wouldn't feel. I wouldn't feel like murdering babies and children, or torturing families, or raping women and girls.
I have sympathised with the Palestinian situation for many years, but the second I saw what Hamas had done, saw what they were, I lost all sympathy for those that carried out the atrocities, and their supporters.
I am extremely sorry for the innocent civilians in Gaza whose so-called leaders brought the response upon them.

The fact that anyone would try and make excuses for their actions, I find grotesque. There aren't any.

Cashncarry68 · 25/11/2023 14:58

Strange isn't it:

Q: What were Israel meant to do, in response to 7/11?
A: well not commit genocide against thousands of children.

That's the normal narrative isn't it?

So how come raping/beheading etc is perfectly justifiable behaviour to these strange posters?

Stomacharmeleon · 25/11/2023 15:09

@Livinginanotherworld do you know who could change all that for their people? Hamas. Hamas could go back to the negotiating table. They could use the billions in aid to make Gaza a well run, clean place with clean water and an abundance of utilities and goods. Except they chose to spend that billions on rockets and smuggling race horses through tunnels. There is enormous wealth in Gaza too... look at the wealthier neighbourhoods. They are watching whilst all this plays out. As they knew it would.

I have no sympathy for a terrorist organisation that after murdering a 3 year olds parents picked her up and drove her into Gaza. Who until now have not released her. Scum.

Livinginanotherworld · 25/11/2023 17:05

Cashncarry68 · 25/11/2023 14:24

Nobody, whose great Grandmother were Jewish, would be walking in today's march. They would, however, be making every effort to attend tomorrow's event. There are some vehement anti Israel posters, who I believe fabricate events to suit their posts. They either know/were related to somebody who was Jewish or Muslim or the best one is they know Israel, intimately.

You cannot seriously debate also, with anybody, who purports that Hamas were oppressed and caged, to the extent they would behave as they did on 7/11.

It's like reading a first year criminology essay when you read through the emotive diatribe. In fact, I actually think I'm being generous with undergraduate degree level.

Finally, if Hamas were to have their comments read out to them, not only would they laugh at the naivety of these posters but they would actually despise them for being so weak. Virtue bloody signallers.

There are many Jewish people here today, Jewish bloc. and Jewish Socialist group were just two I spotted out of many. Not all Jewish people are comfortable with what Israel are doing. They were standing with us.

Livinginanotherworld · 25/11/2023 17:06

Stomacharmeleon · 25/11/2023 14:28

@Cashncarry68 and name change because they were busted the first time they tried it.

To my knowledge I have never name changed on here, you can ask admin to check, I have nothing to hide.

Stomacharmeleon · 25/11/2023 17:14

@Livinginanotherworld I wonder how comfortable they will be with Hamas changing the terms of the truce and refusing to release hostages today?

basculin · 25/11/2023 17:17

Livinginanotherworld · 25/11/2023 17:05

There are many Jewish people here today, Jewish bloc. and Jewish Socialist group were just two I spotted out of many. Not all Jewish people are comfortable with what Israel are doing. They were standing with us.

Do they know they're marching besides someone who defends Hamas?

Livinginanotherworld · 25/11/2023 17:20

Stomacharmeleon · 25/11/2023 17:14

@Livinginanotherworld I wonder how comfortable they will be with Hamas changing the terms of the truce and refusing to release hostages today?

There are still at least 1/2 million people in the north who are too elderly or sick to get out, the deal was partly to get Aid in food, water and medical supplies through to them, this is not happening, Hamas have put a pause on the exchange whilst this is sorted out. They haven’t changed the terms of the truce at all.

Livinginanotherworld · 25/11/2023 17:21

basculin · 25/11/2023 17:17

Do they know they're marching besides someone who defends Hamas?

Oh for fucks sake, do grow up.

noblegiraffe · 25/11/2023 17:25

You don't seem to have clarified this.

You have said that you have sympathy for the young Palestinian men who took revenge.

These are the Hamas terrorists, yes? If not, who did you mean?

10/7 Denial - TRIGGER WARNING
Trulywonderful · 25/11/2023 17:29

I take it that is having sympathy for the stabby stabby cousins just released

Sorry I can't be arsed to read all the posts since I was last here

XRAYTHIS · 25/11/2023 17:37

Stomacharmeleon · 25/11/2023 15:09

@Livinginanotherworld do you know who could change all that for their people? Hamas. Hamas could go back to the negotiating table. They could use the billions in aid to make Gaza a well run, clean place with clean water and an abundance of utilities and goods. Except they chose to spend that billions on rockets and smuggling race horses through tunnels. There is enormous wealth in Gaza too... look at the wealthier neighbourhoods. They are watching whilst all this plays out. As they knew it would.

I have no sympathy for a terrorist organisation that after murdering a 3 year olds parents picked her up and drove her into Gaza. Who until now have not released her. Scum.

This.

noblegiraffe · 25/11/2023 17:39

Trulywonderful · 25/11/2023 17:29

I take it that is having sympathy for the stabby stabby cousins just released

Sorry I can't be arsed to read all the posts since I was last here

No, the conversation up till then was about the Hamas terrorists. Nothing to do with the prisoners.

Stomacharmeleon · 25/11/2023 17:49

@Livinginanotherworld Palestinian Red Cross has confirmed all aid was delivered. It's on the news.
They are breaking the terms of the truce already.

basculin · 25/11/2023 18:01

Livinginanotherworld · 25/11/2023 17:21

Oh for fucks sake, do grow up.

WTF? Sorry if I'm not just skimming past you coming on to a thread about the denial of an incredibly brutal and deadly terrorist attack and defending the fucking terrorists.

Trulywonderful · 25/11/2023 18:04

noblegiraffe · 25/11/2023 17:39

No, the conversation up till then was about the Hamas terrorists. Nothing to do with the prisoners.

So literally a Hamas supporter, even worse than I thought

OuiOuiKitty · 25/11/2023 18:12

Stomacharmeleon · 25/11/2023 17:49

@Livinginanotherworld Palestinian Red Cross has confirmed all aid was delivered. It's on the news.
They are breaking the terms of the truce already.

I was under the impression Israel were still killing people despite the 'truce'. Was this allowed under the terms?

basculin · 25/11/2023 18:17

This reply has been deleted

This was deleted as it is not the spirit of the site.

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