Israeli Jewish Holocaust and Genocide Scholar Explains How What's Happening in Gaza Amounts to Genocide

[Ohlalalalala]

Raz Segal is an associate professor of Holocaust and genocide studies and endowed professor in the study of modern genocide at Stockton University in New Jersey.

[...] an expert declaration by three leading Holocaust and genocide studies scholars: Victoria Sanford, Barry Trachtenberg and John Cox. Sanford has written extensively on genocide and state violence in Latin America, especially in the case of Guatemala. Trachtenberg and Cox have published widely on the Holocaust.

They stress in their report that the “levels of destruction and killings in just over one month, together with the annihilatory language expressed by Israeli state leaders and senior army officers, point not to targeting of individual Hamas militants or Hamas military targets, but to the unleashing of deadly violence against Palestinians in Gaza ‘as such,’ in the language of the UN Genocide Convention.”

The assessment of the three senior Holocaust and genocide studies scholars is accurate. Gaza now resembles Ukrainian cities after Russian bombings and invasions, but with levels of destruction and killings that have surpassed in less than a month what we have seen in Ukraine in nearly two years: Official U.N. figures from early September note that Russian attacks killed slightly fewer than 10,000 civilians since February 2022, and injured just above 17,500. Israel has so far killed more than 11,000 Palestinians, wounding nearly 30,000. It is important that Biden described Russia’s attack on Ukraine as “genocide” on April 12, 2022, commenting that “we’ll let the lawyers decide, internationally, whether or not it qualifies, but it sure seems that way to me.” In the same way, Gallant’s “total siege” policy, together with the forced displacement of more than 1.5 million of the 2.3 million Palestinians in Gaza, has created what sure seems like genocide.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2023-11-19/israel-hostages-gaza-bombing-civilians-genocide-holocaust-studies

@notsoready4school I'll put that on the watch list for later!

Sad that these Jewish voices speaking out are being smeared as anti-semitic or told they are "self-hating jews".

I've also seen so much effort to smear the Jewish groups speaking out (Jewish Voice for Peace and many more).

The only genocide being planned is of the Jews by Hamas, as Hamas' Covenant says: https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm
Israel would stop killing Palestinians in a heartbeat if all hostages, living and dead, were returned, and Hamas laid down their arms.
As it is, a ceasefire would be no more or less than Israel surrendering in order to wait for the next 7/10, which they will not do. They will not stop until as many Hamas murderers as they can find have been killed and their infrastructure destroyed, and nor should they.
Israel regrets non-combatant deaths but will not bend to orchestrated, anti-Semitic 'world opinion' on this.

Meanwhile, UN experts point to evidence of 'genocidal incitement' against Palestinians

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-experts-point-evidence-genocidal-incitement-against-palestinians-2023-11-16/

https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/a-jewish-plea-stand-up-to-israels-act-of-genocide/

From the article

"I have by my desk a quote attributed to beloved Jewish writer and activist Grace Paley: “The only recognizable feature of hope is action.” For over a decade that has motivated my work to build a thriving moment of American Jews in solidarity with Palestinians. But where do you find hope in the midst of utter horror? My only hope in this moment is that my fellow Jewish Americans and people of conscience all across America will unite in a way we never have before to call for an end to genocide.

Israel has dropped more bombs on Palestinians in Gaza this week than the United States dropped on Afghanistan in a full year of the war. Last night the Israeli government issued an evacuation order for the entire northern Gaza Strip, telling residents to evacuate in twenty-four hours. This order forewarns a ground invasion. Israel’s intention is to try to absolve itself of responsibility for what will ultimately be massive casualties among untold thousands who are unable or unwilling to leave. The UN has already deemed this impossible in the narrow strip where for sixteen years Israel has imprisoned 2.2 million Palestinians—nearly half of them children—in a crushing siege of land, air, and sky.

This is genocide."

Indeed. There are so many Jewish people, from all walk of life, who are speaking out against Israel.

Finkelstein has been vocal about it for a long time now. He's a prolific scholar with numerous books based on outstanding research. Despite being all that and more, he had his tenure rejected because of pressures from those who did not like his work and wanted to silence him.

“When you ask me what the reaction to being controversial is - there is no reaction - I’m being cancelled.”

US political scientist Dr. Norman Finkelstein speaks to Al Jazeera ⤵️
https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1719889103905550346

I think most people are capable of seeing that Israel need to tread very carefully in how they respond to the 7th October attacks and even though I do believe they are trying to spare civilian life, it is nigh on impossible given how Gaza is set up and how Hamas have nestled themselves within civilian areas. I do find it hard to understand how people do not have an issue with a government setting up military bases within hospitals; it really is truly evil to do that, especially when that same govt instigates a brutal attack on Israel to incite a response.

I wonder what the UK govt would have done in a similar situation and I am not entirely sure we would have done anything hugely different? If 1500 British citizens were killed by a terrorist organisation on Britain soil, what would we have done?

The issue for everyone, Palestinians and Israelis alike, is that there will be no peace in the area with Hamas/Iran still in power in Gaza.

How you de-arm them is the quandary and brute force is the current tactic from Israel which is definitely difficult for all of us to see, but also not just completely impossible to understand.

I wonder what the UK govt would have done in a similar situation and I am not entirely sure we would have done anything hugely different? If 1500 British citizens were killed by a terrorist organisation onBritain soil, what would we have done?

In a hypothetical situation, let's say London, for argument's sake, can you really imagine the airforce bombing the hell out of London, bombing hospitals, bombing our schools and killing 12000 innocent Londoners? No, it just wouldn't happen.

Not to mention, I'm still waiting for verifiable evidence of Hamas "hiding in hospitals".

The scenario would be 1500 British Civilians being killed on british soil by a terrorist organisation from a different country...

Do you think we should not retaliate? Maybe you do, that is fine. I feel I would be angry with my govt firstly that it happened, and secondly if they did not then go on to protect us? (In this case the terrorist organisation are saying they will do it again and again)

I am not saying how Israel are protecting themselves is totally fine btw, I am disturbed by the plight of innocent Palestinian people, but I also don't know what they are expected to do protect themselves against terrorists.

There is a Jewish poster on these forums who I can’t remember the name of but she had experience with the Israeli army and she said they should have pursued a targeted strategy with special ops to take out Hamas rather than flattening the whole place, displacing all the civilians.

I think that would have been the strategy most western governments would have pursued, I think even America did something similar for Afghanistan rather than bombing the whole place indescriminately. Some might support that it was done this in order to make the IDF’s stated strategy easier (getting Hamas). However, once you consider the approach they have taken along with the public statements by numerous Israeli government and army officials, coupled with the policy of stopping all water, food, electricity and fuel does suggest the choice to use indiscriminate bombing to flatten entire areas was deliberate and with genocidal intentions rather than the only way they could do it.

Also again please can you settle for me, do most pro Israeli people believe that IDF have provided sufficient evidence for the Al Shifa hospital command centre? Are you satisfied with the results shared?

I do find it hard to understand how people do not have an issue with a government setting up military bases within hospitals; it really is truly evil to do that, especially when that same govt instigates a brutal attack on Israel to incite a response.

There is no evidence to support the idea that Hamas have a military base in hospitals. Israel said that there was a Hamas command centre in the hospital that they spent a week terrorising before marching people out at gunpoint. Yet once they got into the hospital all they showed the world was a handful of weapons which let's face it could have come from anywhere. Where is the underground command centre that we were told was the reason they were killing premature babies? Surely you see how evil it is to terrorise and kill medics and patients and to lie that you have proof about a command centre in order to justify it? People need to stop repeating Israels lies as fact.

So leaving aside Hamas for a moment, do you condemn Israel for its actions:

Come to Palestine on Palestinian visas, live in homes as guests
Forced expulsion of homeowners and takeover of land
Drive out people in millions to make your own homeland
Burning down trees, land and poisoning rivers
Mistreating and setting up apartheid system for Palestinians in their own land

All this before Hamas was created

Fast forward to 2019, when Palestinians peacefully marched for "right of return" - they were shot mercilessly. (there is a netflix movie about this)

2022-2023 - forced expulsion of people from their rightful homes in West Bank, random killing of Palestinians, and imprisonment of children.

Children singing death to Arabs as part of school

This is all Israels "charter" - do you condemn it?

Not to mention, I'm still waiting for verifiable evidence of Hamas "hiding in hospitals".

This has been known for years. Bill Clinton was talking about it back in 2016.

[https://x.com/afshineemrani/status/1725966002025042184?s=20]]

I don't even know why this is disputed? Why do you believe they don't do this?

Agree. Those tunnels were proved to be Norwegian, the hostage charts were proven to be simply calendars, the videos of Palestinian nurses fearing hamas were proved to be Israeli actresses. Why are people so desperate to believe Israels lies while ignoring live streamed death and mass destruction of a people?

https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-israel-build-bunker-under-shifa-hospital-1844107

I think it is actually difficult to understand when you see the ramifications it is having internationally for both the Israeli government, for Jewish people world wide and for stability in the middle east.

I find it even more difficult to understand the cognitive dissonance of a country who says 'we are the only democracy in this area' and 'we have a superior defence system' and seem to hint at a moral superiority over it's enemy but then goes on to:

1. See a massive act of terrorism slip through their world renowned defensive perimeter and not act on intelligence received to prevent it and quietly wants it's citizens to shut the fuck about it
2. Go straight into a scorched earth defence policy that not only endangers their own citizens but kills them too, occupies and then levels an area that holds their citizens with little to no regard for their safety and kills 4,000 children, 9,000 adults and injures 30,000 people in less then 6 weeks. Nobody, anywhere is going to look at that policy, shrug their shoulders and go 'okay, you do what you need to do'...unless they are making money from it that is!
3. Engages in the most bizarre and amateur propaganda programme that actually make a terrorist organisation seem sophisticated

I actually think Israel could have done something different that didn't shatter their credibility, morality and ethics on a global stage. They just look like your run of the mill colonizers now. I can't really tell any difference between what the British did here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_rebellion and Israel's strategy in Gaza. You aren't telling me that the IDF don't have the intelligence, funding and capability to be strategic?

About this specific Al Shifa hospital and the current situation and evidence shown (not history as we all well know is possible when it was first mentioned many years ago it might have been true but no evidence and no investigation was carried out then and they may have moved by now even if they did at that time).

Are you satisfied that the evidence shared by IDF has met the burden of proof for the justification of a Hamas command centre and hence denying the hospital of fuel and denying It to function as a hospital in a war zone was justifiable on that basis?

we have to take intelligence with a pinch of salt as things like 9/11 and 7/10 and false WMDs can happen, with all the best intentions in the world they really don’t know a lot of stuff, we have to admit and be honest about this.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/30/israel-hasnt-been-a-democracy-for-a-long-time-now-israelis-need-to-face-this-fact

When I see the term "democracy" and Israel together in the same sentence I wonder what other "democracy" would treat its citizens the way that Palestinians are treated.

Your point no. 3 made me think of that comedy called Four Lions. I think someone could definitely do a similar movie based on some of the strange videos that have been released by Israel and the IDF. Definitely not timely to laugh about it but I would have loved to be a fly on the wall for the making of some of these videos.

Emotional hype, at its finest.

It's absolutely horrific all around but what was Israel meant to do exactly? Continue to be attacked. Let their people be murdered and their women raped? I don't know how they could have done this differently. If someone came onto my street and raped/tortured/murdered my friends and family and I knew where they were hiding...I can't say I would do any differently.

Are you satisfied that the evidence shared by IDF has met the burden of proof for the justification of a Hamas command centre and hence denying the hospital of fuel and denying It to function as a hospital in a war zone was justifiable on that basis?

we have to take intelligence with a pinch of salt as things like 9/11 and 7/10 and false WMDs can happen, with all the best intentions in the world they really don’t know a lot of stuff, we have to admit and be honest about this.

I am satisfied that it is true that Hamas position themselves in civilian areas, including hospitals, yes. I'm genuinely not sure why this is a contentious issue.

Thank you. I read that as you believe the evidence provided by IDF is sufficient to make that judgement.

Hamas is just an excuse. This didn't start in October 7th.

Here's again one of the excerpts from the article in my OP:

These unfolding horrors render it extremely difficult to imagine possible futures beyond the violence. I spoke about this last weekend at Kol Tzedek, my Jewish congregation in Philadelphia, from my perspective as an Israeli and Jewish Holocaust and genocide studies scholar. I noted that Israel’s mass violence against Palestinians stems from a new Jewish identity, tied to the creation of Israel in 1948: Jewish supremacy. I also noted that white supremacists in Europe and the U.S. find Israeli state practices of Jewish supremacy inspiring — even as they hate Jews in Europe and the U.S. deeply. While Israel and its allies strive to portray any criticism of Israeli policies and violence against Palestinians as antisemitism, some of Israel’s greatest supporters, such as American white supremacist Richard Spencer or Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán, are fierce antisemites.

This terrible fact should direct us to the roots of the historical struggle against antisemitism before the creation of Israel in 1948. It was a struggle that aimed to protect a powerless group from powerful states, not to defend a powerful state in its attack against a powerless group. It was a struggle for a people to live in dignity in a society where everyone’s humanity is recognized, not to legitimize a state where leaders, politicians and TV anchors call openly to wipe out places and people.

Im old enough to remember very well the IRA bombing attacks, our army didn’t carpet bomb Ireland.

@notsoready4school You will read it how you want to read it.

What is so curious is that you prefer to believe the billionaire leaders of Hamas who are currently in Qatar with their $5bn of money which they have literally stolen from the Palestinian people.