A genuine question

[Auvergne63]

Why, despite irrefutable evidence of the horrors that are happening on an daily basis in Gaza, some people are still excusing/ agreeing with what the Israeli government and the IDF are doing?
I cannot comprehend it.

Agree. Genuinely, like OP, can't understand how people like Xenia cheer bombs, because, well, it's been done before so hey ho. Doesn't bother me.

I think also when you study war studies or any history actually - there are reasons why horrors like apartheid, holocaust, Rwandan genocide etc occurred. One is that people chose to turn a blind eye and want to maintain their own status quo. If it doesn't bother you and the way things are happening keep your lifestyle going and uphold your worldview and allow you to watch from your comfort zone without being impacted or "having no skin in the game" then why bother taking a second look and speaking up?

This !

@OuiOuiKitty report them. New account try to try and confuse mns

Thanks. I did this morning, not sure if it's against the rules though 🤔

They should be requested to change the name as it’s confusing having two members with similar names saying opposite things (and to me the name has been chosen to cause this)

@xenia I can't see how the current attacks on civilians are compatible with any of the teachings of Jesus, who had quite a lot to say about children, including the need to welcome them in his name and that the kingdom of heaven belongs to them? The pope has called for a ceasefire, no doubt because the killing of children is not condoned in Christianity. I was brought up Catholic - but I don't think the teachings differ that much in Christianity - that killing children is ever considered good?

As a UK Christian, why on earth do you feel the need to pick a "side" other than peace? This is not a football match, you don't need to support any killing. Hideous stance to take.

There is definitely a sense that if you are concerned about one “side” you must be cheering the deaths on the other “side”. It is very polarised.

I have much more sympathy’s for the Palestinians than Israel in general but that really doesn’t mean I support Hamas or condone their horrific actions. Also I don’t imagine most Israel sympathisers are as quite keen on the idea of dead children as you’d be lead to believe on here.

That said Israel’s government are guilty of war crimes (no matter how bad the provocation was) and ongoing selfishness (land grabs and settlements). Not to mention incompetence. After all this is over and Israel declares glorious victory I hope questions are asked about why they were unable to prevent October 7 from happening in the first place.

Imagine your child was out with their friends at a concert or sleeping in their cot. and someone breaks in and murders them/beheads them/puts them in the oven/rapes them or kidnaps them and keeps them in the tunnel. What would YOU do to get them back. I can honestly tell you i would do ANYTHING to get my child back. they are my child and i can think how awful it is for the children in gaza but they are not my child and my child is being held and probably tortured in a darkened tunnel.

I do not understand why people can't get this through their head. There was a ceasefire on October 6th. Hamas broke it. Israel is being asked to agree to a unilateral ceasefire which will not sent the hostages home, will not prevent hamas from continuing to send thousands of rockets over to Israel and will provide them an opportunity to rearm and regroup to do this all over again. They have been clear there will be no ceasefire without at least the release of hostages and preferably a surrender of hamas. They are close to an agreement according to the news so let's pray they do so and this ends soon

I do not understand why people can't get this through their head. There was a ceasefire on October 6th. Hamas broke it.

I do not understand why people think it was OK for Israel to kill people all year and that didn't count as breaking a ceasefire but when Hamas do it it is? Why do you think Israel killing people including around 40 children the youngest being 2 years old this year prior to 7/10 didn't count as breaking the ceasefire?

I actually think my response would be to protest against the Isreali governments constant bombing, in fact I would chain myself to the railings outside parliament because with every bomb that's dropped there is less chance of my child coming back alive, not to mention lack of food, water, sanitation etc

How is bombing the place where you think your child is going to lead to a good outcome for them?

If my child was kidnapped I'd like to think that I'd at least understand that murdering 5,000 other children isn't going to help me in any way.

@Toothyfruity really good point. If my child were in Gaza and Israel were bombing I would think this was the most concerning action Israel could take for the safety of my child.

10000%

Imagine your child was out with their friends at a concert or sleeping in their cot. and someone breaks in and murders them/beheads them/puts them in the oven/rapes them or kidnaps them and keeps them in the tunnel. What would YOU do to get them back. I can honestly tell you i would do ANYTHING to get my child back. they are my child and i can think how awful it is for the children in gaza but they are not my child and my child is being held and probably tortured in a darkened tunnel

I don’t expect the families of the victims to think objectively but that doesn’t mean I don’t have reservations about what Israel is doing.

Agree with a pp that they may be better served asking their government how the hell they allowed October 7 to happen and if they think the bombardment of Gaza is going to bring the hostages back or actually put them in more danger.

Afternoon - we're just popping on here to let you all know that, as we can see that QuiQuiKitty has now deregged, we've removed all their posts under that name in order to avoid further confusion. Hope that helps.

Agree. Genuinely, like OP, can't understand how people like Xenia cheer bombs, because, well, it's been done before so hey ho. Doesn't bother me.
This demonstrates just how low the level of the debate is on here.
Xenia has never 'cheered bombs', just put forward rounded pov. But posters like you can't tolerate dissent, can you?

Agree, and also thinking about the oppression that my state stands on, that allows the murder of children every year and taking away civil liberties, rights and homes of inhabitants.

People advocating ceasefire are putting forward analysis and views from across respected organisations, on the ground footage and historical context. And oh, humanitarianism against deaths of 1000s of children.

People against ceasefire/more civilian and children deaths are simply arguing about either
Israels right to self defense
Well, war happens, bombs happen, it happens
Blame Hamas

We can see the low level of debate

This demonstrates just how low the level of the debate is on here.

Lol, do you think you’ve done better?

You would say that though wouldn’t you.
You seem to have forgotten that most of these children and babies who have died would still be alive were it not for Hamas. No one’s saying that the Israeli government and army have behaved well, most of us are watching with horror at what’s going on, but this whole episode has been deliberately orchestrated by Hamas who gave not a shit about the consequences for ‘their’ people. You could even say they were well aware how a combination of left leaning socially aware sections of the west would respond as well as Muslim communities all over Europe. Hence the almost constant live feed of the destruction going on, they are astute enough to know it will cause anger and frustration and they have predictably now been rewarded. From barbaric terrorist murderers to oppressed victims of imperialism in the space of a few weeks, what an achievement.

@Katharineblum there may be some aspects of your post I agree with. But does that mean that we cannot speak against the massacre taking place before our eyes? One that our own government seems to be endorsing?
There are many of us here myself included who have condemned the actions of Hamas many many times. But it in no way justifies what is happening now.
The Israeli government with Netanyahu in particular has played a huge part in this mess. This did not start on the 7th of October.
And whilst the war is raging on many Palestinians In the occupied West bank are still being persecuted on a daily basis.
This war has highlighted the many injustices that have taken place and continue to take place which till now have been brushed under the carpet. It's now coming out in the open and ofcourse the Israeli government is not happy about this.
Nothing will be resolved in terms of a long term resolution until all of this is addressed

Not for the Palestinians and not for the Israelis.
Some hard truths and lessons will have to be addressed and acknowledged on both sides.
Nobody should be given a free pass. Not least because some governments pick 'teams' depending on which ones best suits their own political interests

@Katharineblum there may be parts of my post you agree or disagree and i would be happy to hear your thoughts on it. My response to you was to open up the discussion not to shut it down and I hope it was taken as such

@Parkingt111 thanks for that.
My issue is that I’m not sure what Israel was supposed to do after the October pogrom. Maybe they acted predictably and Hamas knew this response would cause so much worldwide condemnation in their favour. Who knows but we’ve heard today that negotiations about the hostages are at an advanced stage and can only hope that they will be released. This may well lead to some kind of halt to hostilities.
Let’s cross our fingers that something positive can come out of this !