A genuine question

[Auvergne63]

Why, despite irrefutable evidence of the horrors that are happening on an daily basis in Gaza, some people are still excusing/ agreeing with what the Israeli government and the IDF are doing?
I cannot comprehend it.

Yes, I read that article on Saturday. Jonathan Freedland had been consistently excellent on this.

Katherine Blum's post is spot on. Fewer and fewer posters engage with these posts because, if they display any level of nuance, the accusations of baby killer or genocide are trotted out by posters who can only see in black and white
You forgot about the accusations of supporting terrorism and being antisemitic.

Palestine is seen as toxic in the ME
Palestine is hardly the only country in the ME to have extremists/terrorists groups.

So why aren't other ME countries actively supporting Palestine? They won't even accept refugees from there.

I also hazard a guess that if there is no boundary redress then a lot of those that are pro the Palesrtian cause would not object to continued armed 'resisitance ' such as seen on October 7th.
🙄

@Sausagenbacon well there's many reasons.
One is they don't want to help facilitate the ethnic cleansing of Gaza.
In regards to actively supporting except for helping in forced displacement what else do you suggest they do?
Help in aid? Yes they have and continue to do that but you seem to forget that currently Israel has a say in how the Rafah border which Gaza shares with Egypt is operated. Who can leave and what and how much aid can come in.
Condemning and calling for a ceasefire? Yes they have done that too, they could go a step further and cut all diplomatic ties with Israel all together and fully isolate it in the Middle East if that's what you think they should be doing?

It's a fact that Egypt has a massive problem with the Muslim Brotherhood (who are adjacent to Hamas). They have no intention of allowing Palestinian refugees into Israel because they have no wish to import more support for MB.
All the surrounding countries have done their calculations (thank God) and are leaving palestine to fight their own battles .

@Sausagenbacon but you didn't answer the question. You keep saying why aren't they helping? What help right now would you like them to provide?
Maybe you think military assistance would be best? Or then do you have other alternatives?

@Sausagenbacon or is it just to come on and goad at the plight of the Palestinians? There certainly has been an increase in posters who take great delight in doing so. Quite sadistic really

Yes goodness me we wouldn't want anything else. Let them all die in this mess and not bother the rest of us.
No sympathy from here. No sir!

So here we go again...when does discussion turn into gloating?
I'm only pointing out that Egypt is refusing to take Palestinian refugees, for its own good reasons. Can you engage with that?

...and so the high level of discussion continues.

@Sausagenbacon no. Its very clear to anyone reading this exactly what you are doing. I rarely answer back like this but your lack of empathy and delight in what is happening to the Palestinians is quite frankly disgusting

Tell me where I'm delighted.

@Sausagenbacon if I thought you were sincere then the answer would be different. It's clear that you are not and I normally reserve reasonable discussion for those who are. But that's my last message to you. I'm certainly not going to waste any more energy when there are many other pro Israeli posters who have shown empathy and distress at what is happening to the Palestinians whilst also maintaining their own stance

It's complicated in many ways.

I'm a Jew who does not support the Israeli government and think this is all an appalling act of revenge on Gazans, not a proportionate strike at Hamas, but a lot of Jews (not all) feel very partisan to Israel because they feel the world could turn against us at any minute and that Israel is their last and only refuge if that happens, so they want to defend it even if they know what it's doing is wrong.

Quite a lot of Jews have been brought up with the attitude that 'If anything happens, God forbid, at least you have Israel' and they feel that very strongly. I don't think that excuses anything but I think it's something people need to understand about why some people might stand by Israel. TBH i think they're just desperately hoping it can be justified although they know in their heart of hearts it isn't because they just don't want Israel to be The Bad Guy (not that there are any good guys in the leadership of either side) and they don't want anything to happen to it.

So you can't. You're just projecting because you can't answer any of the perfectly valid questions I've raised.
OK you do you then.

Great article, btw @bookworm14

It's not clear at all actually, if I'm included in 'anyone reading'. I often lurk on these threads to try and gain an understanding of the horror occurring. I was also interested in SausagenBacon's question regarding neighbouring countries not offering refuge. Europeans warmly opened their doors for Ukraine, with incentives from their governments. I don't understand why other ME countries haven't offered the same for Palestinians. You said that's because they don't want to facilitate ethnic cleansing. I'm struggling to understand that.

Can you engage with that?

Er..that’s what they’re doing. Your the one who won’t engage (as in not answering questions)

@SidekickSylvia seeing as you seem genuine there are a few reasons.
The first is as stated above that Egypt which shares a border with Gaza is worried that by allowing in some refugees which could include Hamas themselves would cause a problem there.
The second which is most significant is this
Their refusal is rooted in fear that Israel wants to force a permanent expulsion of Palestinians into their countries and nullify Palestinian demands for statehood
Also once again even IF they did offer refuge right now would Israel allow it? They control the border with Egypt and currently control who and what can come in and go out.

.I was also interested in SausagenBacon's question regarding neighbouring countries not offering refuge.

So you were happy when someone attempted to answer I guess?

You said that's because they don't want to facilitate ethnic cleansing. I'm struggling to understand that.

If the Palestinians leave Gaza there’s no way Israel will let them return and they’ll end up refugees. I don’t believe Israel wants to kill all the Palestinians but is does want them to just go away (and this was the case before Hamas showed up).
Hence the grumbling about other ME counties not “helping” when really you’d think they’d be pleased because as Parkingt111 pointed out this help would probably involve some form of military action

@SidekickSylvia There has been an increasing worrying rhetoric coming from Israel that alludes to some sort of re-occupation of Gaza. President Biden has been strongly pushing back on that and insisting the only way forward would be a two state solution and for the Palestinians to be given the right of self determination.
This narrative being pushed on mainstream media is concerning for the other Arab states

Those who are worried about the forced displacement and ethnic cleansing of Gaza have real reasons for these concerns

The below is from the times of Israel
Israel acknowledged Monday that one of its ministries drafted a wartime proposal to transfer the Gaza Strip’s 2.3 million people to Egypt’s Sinai peninsula, drawing condemnation from the Palestinians and worsening tensions with Cairo.

Thank you for taking the time to answer Parkingt111, it makes more sense now.