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Conflict in the Middle East

Be aware of misinformation seen regarding Palestine

914 replies

whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 13/11/2023 17:44

There's a lot of misinformation/propaganda spreading around and this thread is to raise awareness of the ones circulating. Here's one for example:

www.instagram.com/p/Czh2sF_LaUp/?igshid=anFmemQ3OGxpMGpu

Please share any you come across.

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96
whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 19/11/2023 21:30

Fair enough. Thanks.

I was just on the IDF instagram page. In their last video showing the evidence, one of the first things they said was that all the cameras had been taped up using black tape. How was this footage taken?

Quite clearly Hamas are there with the hostages - I don't think it proves there was a Hamas infrastructure there but this could be footage of them taking injured hostages to a hospital to be treated.

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ShadowCipher · 19/11/2023 21:37

whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 19/11/2023 21:30

Fair enough. Thanks.

I was just on the IDF instagram page. In their last video showing the evidence, one of the first things they said was that all the cameras had been taped up using black tape. How was this footage taken?

Quite clearly Hamas are there with the hostages - I don't think it proves there was a Hamas infrastructure there but this could be footage of them taking injured hostages to a hospital to be treated.

at a guess other intelligence services secret cameras ?

Noelectricheating · 19/11/2023 21:56

whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 19/11/2023 21:30

Fair enough. Thanks.

I was just on the IDF instagram page. In their last video showing the evidence, one of the first things they said was that all the cameras had been taped up using black tape. How was this footage taken?

Quite clearly Hamas are there with the hostages - I don't think it proves there was a Hamas infrastructure there but this could be footage of them taking injured hostages to a hospital to be treated.

Perhaps cameras were working on 7th October but if Hamas did operate from partsbof thd hospital, basement, MRI area which looked like a storeroom then cameras were taped up later?

HaveALaff · 19/11/2023 22:02

noblegiraffe · 19/11/2023 20:43

So now there's CCTV evidence of hostages being brought to Al Shifa hospital by Hamas, does that mean the doctors saying there was no Hamas activity there were lying? Or something else?

https://x.com/mrconfino/status/1726317044428079588?s=61&t=U9XrcF693-JpMxeIueYG7g

There are British doctors who have volunteered at Al-shifa too. They have reported that the hospital is not associated with Hamas.

whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 19/11/2023 22:06

Presumably they use the same CCTV company across the entire hospital and the format will be identical in all the recordings. Why are the date stamps different in both?

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noblegiraffe · 19/11/2023 22:32

HaveALaff · 19/11/2023 22:02

There are British doctors who have volunteered at Al-shifa too. They have reported that the hospital is not associated with Hamas.

It does seem clear that it at least has been used by Hamas in the past. Amnesty reported that in 2015. A British doctor was interviewed today reporting that it was in 2009 as well.

Perhaps they abandoned it. Perhaps the doctors were scared into lying. With this CCTV I don't think it's clear what's going on.

ScrollingLeaves · 19/11/2023 22:54

I noticed the clock showed a different time too, but on the video you can see that the second hand isn’t moving. So most likely it has stopped/needs a new battery.

ScrollingLeaves · 19/11/2023 23:01

It was on the BBC news. The IDF spokesman described this scene of the men and stretchers bearing hostages as Hamas ‘fleeing’ to Al Shifa. He pointed
to one hostage and said you can see there is nothing wrong with them.

You can see there is something wrong with the other man though.

He alleges they kept hostages there in the hospital and killed some hostages there.

He shows two jeeps arriving and says they were Israeli jeeps which were full of weapons and left in the precinct.

It was quite confusing

whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 19/11/2023 23:07

I read somewhere that Hamas stole the Israeli jeeps.

Does sound confusing.

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ScrollingLeaves · 19/11/2023 23:32

ScrollingLeaves · 18/11/2023 11:55

The electronic intifada article says this:
“Israel’s Haaretz newspaper on 20 October published an interview – only in its Hebrew edition”
Their Haaretz link in “published an interview” led to this Haaretz in Hebrew. I don’t know if you can find a way to translate it?
<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.md/2023.10.22-092119/www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-10-20/ty-article-magazine/.premium/0000018b-499a-dc3c-a5df-ddbaab290000?fbclid=IwAR1bObZUau2KRdEvOvGqskFyVLkVxknDg7dHm9dfgsbUbi8ECFJQZYri0As" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.md/2023.10.22-092119/www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-10-20/ty-article-magazine/.premium/0000018b-499a-dc3c-a5df-ddbaab290000?fbclid=IwAR1bObZUau2KRdEvOvGqskFyVLkVxknDg7dHm9dfgsbUbi8ECFJQZYri0As

Re: the “Who burnt them [Hamas]?” question, that seems to come result from
something Israeli Hovernment spokesman Mark Regev said :
(This below us from electronic intifada but links to a Twitter post with a real video)
“On Thursday, MSNBC host Mehdi Hasan Israeli government spokesperson Mark Regev about the many lies and false claims that Israel has made to justify its genocidal bombing and invasion of Gaza.

While attempting to parry Hasan’s challenges, Regev told many more lies, trying to change the subject and shift the blame for the horrifying toll away from Israel and onto Israel’s Palestinian victims.

But Regev made one admission whose significance neither Regev nor Hasan appears to have recognized.
Regev was trying to make the point that Israel – supposedly unlike Hamas – can be trusted because when Israel makes a mistake, it admits it.

Regex gave this example: “We originally said, in the atrocious Hamas attack upon our people on October 7th, we had the number at 1,400 casualties and now we’ve revised that down to 1,200 because we understood that we’d overestimated, we made a mistake. There were actually bodies that were so badly burnt we thought they were ours, in the end apparently they were Hamas terrorists.”’

This quote from Mark Regev is in a video posted by Ram Abdu on his Twitter.
He was the one who wrote:
“Must be shared widely!”

“The question then is: who burned them?”

“The burned bodies that Israel used as an excuse to commit the genocide in Gaza were for Palestinian fighters”

twitter.com/RamAbdu/status/1725466157166059949

Yasmin Porat seems to have been real.
But her original interview was on the radio I think. It is down to who transcribed that.

In answer to your question I don’t really know of any really clear sources being more specific.

It does seem there was understandably a certain amount of chaos on the days immediately following the Hamas/Palestinian-marauder attack Oct 7, with the IDF not always being all that cautious.

Re the link to the Haaretz 20 October article that didn’t work for you,

I have found an archive ph of it and put it through Google translate.
(This particular article was in Hebrew.)

WARNING there are some DISTRESSING written descriptions of the Oct 7 Hamas raid/massacre.

I have put bold on the paragraph which was relevant to a previous discussion in this thread.
<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.md/2023.10.22-092119/www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-10-20/ty-article-magazine/.premium/0000018b-499a-dc3c-a5df-ddbaab290000?fbclid=IwAR1bObZUau2KRdEvOvGqskFyVLkVxknDg7dHm9dfgsbUbi8ECFJQZYri0As" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.md/2023.10.22-092119/www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-10-20/ty-article-magazine/.premium/0000018b-499a-dc3c-a5df-ddbaab290000?fbclid=IwAR1bObZUau2KRdEvOvGqskFyVLkVxknDg7dHm9dfgsbUbi8ECFJQZYri0As

Car search at the party complex near Reim, this week Photo: Olivier Pitosi

Nir Hasson
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October 20, 2023

In the last week, a new and strange routine took shape in the Gaza Strip. The entire area has become a closed military area surrounded by barriers within which large military forces move. Among them are citizens who live in the kibbutzim and volunteers who try to retrieve objects and memories from the ruins and locate and bring human remains for burial. From time to time a small convoy passes by on its way to the funeral. In most of the surrounding kibbutzim, the army only allows a handful of attendants to enter the cemetery.

We meet Tovel Escapa and Roy Meisner as they are removing items from a burned-out MMD in Kibbutz Bari. Inside, under the youth's bed in the room, is still the body of the dog of the six members of the family that escaped through the window. They hid under a bush outside, and there four of them were murdered. The two children The young men survived, when their parents protected them with their bodies, and managed to escape to the neighbors' house.

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Searching a destroyed house in Kibbutz Bari, this week Photo: Olivier Pitosi

Escapa and Meisner fill a box with toys and clothes they take out of the room: dolls, plastic dinosaurs, a toy gun—and also the Iranian flag that the murderous terrorists left behind. Then the two continue to the home of a missing person from the kibbutz.The members of her family asked for an object from which DNA could be extracted, as well as objects and items of clothing with a smell, such as perfumes and creams. The house was not burned, but the blood stains and chaos indicate that it had taken place. Even before the objects reached the family members, they received a message that the mother's body had been identified.

Escapa is the caretaker of the garden ("Noynik") and a member of Barry's standby squad. Luckily for him, on the day of the October 7th massacre, he was outside the kibbutz, on the occasion of his bachelor party. He and other friends set up a HML to coordinate between the residents and the army forces. The recordings received from the besieged residents reminded him of those released from the Yom Kippur War: "Panic, shouting 'Where is the army?' And in the background you hear the clutches and the RPG."

His voice broke when he remembered his partner, who was besieged in MMD at the time. According to him, only on Monday night and only after the commanders in the field made difficult decisions - including shelling houses on their occupants in order to eliminate the terrorists along with the hostages - did the IDF complete the takeover of the kibbutz The price was terrible: at least 112 Bari people were killed. Others were kidnapped. Yesterday, 11 days after the massacre, the bodies of a mother and her son were discovered in one of the destroyed houses. It is believed that more bodies are still lying in the rubble.

Since Tuesday Escapa and the team of the re-established emergency squad - after most of its members died in the battle - have taken on the task of rescuing the objects from the houses. "There are normal assignments and there are sensitive assignments," he says.The first type includes items such as hearing aids, shoes, clothes, ID cards and passports, toys or pots. The second type includes, for example, "a family for whom someone has disappeared, and they are looking for DNA or a shirt from the laundry basket with the smell of their mother."

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According to him, "We are still missing many pieces of the puzzle. My friend saved his two children, he hid them under the bed and opened the emergency room and stood up for them to take him. They murdered him but I wanted to know if they shot him in the face? Did the children hear it? Luckily for me - luckily for them - it probably didn't happen to them. It's a little comforting. "Perhaps comforting is not the right word."

He adds that there were families who said there was no chance he would find anything in their homes, but he is still looking. "Even small things, even a pot or object of some child, some toy. I was in contact with a classmate of mine whose mother is missing. I found two albums, now she received a message that her mother was murdered.I see scenes that are still bleeding, you see where they were dragged and where they were shot. Nobody wants to see it. We are a group of people with a strong soul. I don't think I'm different from everyone else, but for now it's about me."

The other day, MK Simcha Rothman came to visit the kibbutz. Escapa shouted at him and almost physically drove him out of the place. "I took off my sunglasses and said to him, 'Look me in the eyes, how dare you come here.' fly off! You have blood on your hands, it's on you and all your friends.' He came to put his hand on my shoulder, I screamed at him: 'You have murdered too many people here.' I don't remember myself like that, I was sure I would beat him. Let them not come on a political tour, where were they when they massacred us for six hours. He didn't dare look up at me."

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Photo of a car in the party area, this week Photo: Olivier Fitosi

BMW in PardesNear the entrance to Kibbutz Reim, we meet Meir Barel and other volunteers from the 360 organization, which recently split from ZAKA and deals with disaster relief. The organization took on the morbid task of searching for human remains in the area where the "Nova" nature party was held on the morning of the Hamas attack. Its volunteers distributed the area into strips 20 meters wide that are scanned using jeeps and on foot.

Occasionally they locate body parts or whole bodies in the fields. When we accompanied them to one of the scans, they discovered a BMW in an orange grove. Bullets pierced the doors and the seat next to the driver was covered in a large bloodstain and shards of glass.A small children's guitar was placed behind. "According to the evidence and according to the investigations of the terrorists, the terrorists fled towards Moshav Petish," Barel explains. "We search in orchards, in rows of cauliflowers, we scan the area. We pick up every stone and check under every tree."

According to him, "There are all kinds of signs in the field. Smell is the first indication. Besides color, the ground changes its color. There is also the sound of maggots and flies, and you see signs of fighting: bullets, shooting." The volunteers distinguish between "an organ on which a soul depends" - meaning that its presence necessarily indicates that the person is dead - which is transferred to the Institute of Forensic Medicine; and blood remains and small parts that are brought for burial.

Yesterday they found another body of one of the terrorists. "He was wearing a shirt belonging to Az ad-Din al-Qassem (the military wing of Hamas), but he looked African," Barel says. "I was told that they found dozens of them near Nir Oz. I have a feeling that this is part of our falling asleep. There are mercenaries here from Africa who have gathered for this attack.Right now I'm on a very high adrenaline rush. I'm very busy, there's a phone every second. But it comes back to me at night, I can't close the day. Yesterday I was at a wedding in Bnei Brak and I couldn't understand why they were dancing. Why are they happy, how is it possible."

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A shoe found in the party area near Reim, this week Photo: Olivier Fitosi
A reservist who secured the party from the bad guys: "How can you fight the children who came to celebrate love?"
These days Barel is a rabbi in one of the moshavs in the lowlands, and also a chef and partner in a chain of restaurants. One of his accomplices is Ben Shimoni, who was at the party in Ra'i, managed to escape from the terrorists - but returned to rescue the wounded and was killed. In the party complex, the evidence of the massacre is becoming more and more blurred. The bodies were moved for identification and burial, the burned vehicles were evacuated. Here and there you can see the soil that has changed its color.

At the beginning of the week there was still a Yabil building that was used to sell tickets for the party. In it, during the massacre, five gang members hid for four hours, wounded and scared to death. At one point they were robbed by an armed man from Gaza who demanded their money. "Now he already knows for sure that we are here, and we have nowhere to run," wrote Tomer Mebracha, one of the five, on Facebook.

"In my head I was constantly waiting for him to come back with more friends and spray us, to finish the story. I had already accepted my fate and realized that it would end, that I was already going to die and nothing matters anymore because I am already dead," Mabaraka wrote. Fortunately, the terrorists skipped the room where the group was hiding and after four hours soldiers arrived and rescued them."How can you come and fight the children who came to celebrate love?" asked Miloamnik who was securing the place this week.

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There is another life"In all the many days we spoke with survivors and refugees from kibbutzim surrounding Gaza, Escapa Mbari was the first to talk about rehabilitation and return to the kibbutz. Not at the end of the war, not in months, but now. According to him, "I am a fanatic of the kibbutz. I love the place, the people, the being. We were hit by a blow that cannot be described. From Saturday to Tuesday we were in the market, but now there is something in the activity that brings people back into the groove, that strengthens the community. It is clear to me that not everyone will stay and that OK. No one will judge anyone. I can say thanks to God, who I don't believe in, that my family got out of it."

In the meantime, the commanders of the kibbutz, which has become a military base, do not allow him to return to sleep in his home. He and his classmates sleep in the rooms assigned to them next to the soldiers. The fear is that at night they will be mistakenly identified as terrorists. But Escapa is determined to return to the house and restore it."As a newbie, I have a license for a Bobcat (excavator, NL)," he adds. "I don't want to wait for the end of the war. I want to start rebuilding now, I can't stand feeling like a refugee. Next week we will start working. Let's start with the smallest thing, it will take years anyway. I will dig, I will cut the fallen trees. The goal in front of me is to return home. I don't want mercy, just let me go home."

Escapa adds: "I walk around the kibbutz as a youth worker and say to myself: 'God bless us, how much work we have.'

Genderwoo · 19/11/2023 23:58

Interesting audio excerpt of a France24 interview with a British doctor who had worked at Al Shifa. (from 7:29)

He mentions no-go areas of the building, emphatically not to be wandered into by medical staff.

Raid on Al-Shifa: What next after Israeli operation inside Gaza hospital • FRANCE 24 English

For the Israelis, the roots of all evil run through the alleged tunnels below it... for Palestinians, Al Shifa hospital's a violated sanctuary, the symbol of...

https://youtu.be/1LZ9avl9nDQ?si=mdskHW9Sw2NMijhj&t=449

whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 20/11/2023 09:13

Genderwoo · 19/11/2023 23:58

Interesting audio excerpt of a France24 interview with a British doctor who had worked at Al Shifa. (from 7:29)

He mentions no-go areas of the building, emphatically not to be wandered into by medical staff.

Do you have a link to it please? Not sure if you attached one or not as it's just showing up as a blank space on my app.

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whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 20/11/2023 09:17

@Genderwoo it’s appeared now. Thanks

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whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 20/11/2023 11:38

Here is a post on Twitter from Mossad Commentary stating

Hamas is trying to claim that Israeli soldiers were shooting at the humanitarian corridor.

Sorry to disappoint you. We know guns and that is the sound of a Kalashnikov and Israeli soldiers don't have them.

But if you scroll down and look at the comments, the footage was documented by Motaz (a journalist currently in Gaza) saying it was the Israeli occupation forces shooting to scare people to make them flee faster.

x.com/MOSSADil/status/1725992363363799178?s=20

Be aware of misinformation seen regarding Palestine
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whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 20/11/2023 12:00

Here's another taken from Mossad Commantry on X.

Here they claim that

"The Palestinian Authority deleted from the website and Facebook the post that accuses the Israel Defence Forces of killing participants of the Nova Party but forgot to delete it from Twitter"

x.com/MOSSADil/status/1726331794684035283?s=20

I took the liberty of visiting The State of Palestine's X Page and translated the document using Google Lens. This is the translation of said document:

Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Expatriates State of Palestine
Foreign affairs and expatriates //
The occupation army’s evacuation of the Shifa complex is the most horrific form of genocide continuing in the northern Gaza Strip
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Expatriates condemns in the strongest terms the crime of occupying the Al-Shifa Medical Complex, evacuating the citizens, patients, and medical staff inside it, and converting it into a closed military barracks, and considers it another hideous facet of the crimes of ethnic cleansing and genocide committed by the occupation forces around the clock against Palestinian civilians, their homes, facilities, property, and the components of their human existence. In the Gaza Strip, noting that the evacuation of Al-Shifa Medical Hospital represents an official Israeli attempt to complete the cycles of execution and genocide of any Palestinian presence in Gaza City and the northern Gaza Strip, which also deepens the humanitarian and environmental catastrophe to which the Gaza Strip is exposed and the great pressure to which it is exposed.
It will increase the number of hospitals in the southern Gaza Strip. The Ministry confirms that the evacuation of the Al-Shifa Complex and the ongoing massacres and all forms of genocide are a literal translation of the calls of the extremist Israeli extremists who incite and demand the burning of Gaza, as they previously called for and practiced the burning of Huwwara. These are crimes whose scope the occupation army is gradually expanding to extend to the areas south of the Gaza Strip, within the hearing and sight of the international community. This means committing more massacres against Palestinian civilians and their facilities
And their health and medical centers throughout the Gaza Strip.
18/11/2023
@MOFA. PNAX @PMOFA PALESTINE.MOFA @PMOFA PMOFA

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whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 20/11/2023 12:04

We already know from various media reports that the IDF did in fact kill some civilians on 7/10 as it was hard to distinguish between Hamas and civilians.

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Roste · 20/11/2023 17:02

I thought I would share this powerful speech at the UN for those who are interested
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cz2mntYtxCm/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cz2mntYtxCm/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

FourCandlesNotForkHandles · 20/11/2023 17:16

Roste · 20/11/2023 17:02

I thought I would share this powerful speech at the UN for those who are interested
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cz2mntYtxCm/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

Thankyou @Roste for posting
I think we should advice all those MNs on here who care for humanity that they will find this article very distressing. There are no shocking images, the lady speaks the truth and her words are heartbreaking.

Personally I only got part way through as it’s so upsetting. I will have to return later.
Thankyou so much for posting

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 15:15

whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 20/11/2023 12:04

We already know from various media reports that the IDF did in fact kill some civilians on 7/10 as it was hard to distinguish between Hamas and civilians.

I wonder what we will hear from the hostages that will be hopefully be released shortly. The propaganda fail that happened with Yocheved Lifshitz will not be allowed to happen that way again but I wonder if there will be further information on the scale of the Israeli firing at Israeli civilians.

whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 21/11/2023 15:24

@notsoready4school yes it will be very interesting to see. They'll probably be prepped into told what to say or not to say to avoid the propaganda fail as last time.

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Bigminnie1 · 21/11/2023 15:37

whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 21/11/2023 15:24

@notsoready4school yes it will be very interesting to see. They'll probably be prepped into told what to say or not to say to avoid the propaganda fail as last time.

Oh yes of course, Hamas are just such lovely people and are no doubt looking after the hostages so well. Didn't they look after the people they massacred so well too? How lovely of them to take babies, children, elderly and more and hold them as hostages.

What the hell are you talking about? Of course Yocheved wasn't going to speak terribly about the hostages when they were still holding her husband and a ton of other hostages.

You are talking shit- and showing support for a terrorist organisation.

whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 21/11/2023 15:45

@Bigminnie1 for your information I don't condone what Hamas did on 7/10. I didn't say they were lovely people.
But let's look at how the Israeli forces have treated the Palestinian prisoners and then let's see how Hamas have treated theirs for comparison.

The video below is graphic so do be warned but it depicts the Ill treatment of Palestinian prisoners who have been brutally tortured, burnt, and beaten.

www.instagram.com/reel/Cz4U4i2SwRK/?igshid=N2ViNmM2MDRjNw==

You expect us to condemn Hamas for the attack on 7/10 and for kidnapping the hostages but you won't condemn Israel for their part on 7/10 where they killed some civilians and the ongoing genocide.

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Iwantcakeeveryday · 21/11/2023 15:47

But let's look at how the Israeli forces have treated the Palestinian prisoners and then let's see how Hamas have treated theirs for comparison.

Are you for real? Hamas haven't got prisoners, they're hostages. Hamas are a terrorist organisation, you say you don't support them but you are forever trying to excuse or minimise what they are and what their intentions are, by saying ' but Israel'.

Girahim · 21/11/2023 15:48

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 15:15

I wonder what we will hear from the hostages that will be hopefully be released shortly. The propaganda fail that happened with Yocheved Lifshitz will not be allowed to happen that way again but I wonder if there will be further information on the scale of the Israeli firing at Israeli civilians.

Propaganda fail? You mean when certain posters on here who mostly seem to not be around anymore were falling over themselves to say how well she was treated by the people who took her hostage in the middle of a massacre and still have her husband?

EasterIssland · 21/11/2023 16:35

Iwantcakeeveryday · 21/11/2023 15:47

But let's look at how the Israeli forces have treated the Palestinian prisoners and then let's see how Hamas have treated theirs for comparison.

Are you for real? Hamas haven't got prisoners, they're hostages. Hamas are a terrorist organisation, you say you don't support them but you are forever trying to excuse or minimise what they are and what their intentions are, by saying ' but Israel'.

Someone that has been arrested without proving they’ve done anything wrong and that are not allowed even to have lawyer / court is a hostage of the Israel system.