Be aware of misinformation seen regarding Palestine

[whatswrongwiththeworldddd]

There's a lot of misinformation/propaganda spreading around and this thread is to raise awareness of the ones circulating. Here's one for example:

www.instagram.com/p/Czh2sF_LaUp/?igshid=anFmemQ3OGxpMGpu

Please share any you come across.

The little antisemitic garnish of #ZionistCensorship (Jews control the media trope) on that tweet would seem even more unnecessary as it refers to an Israeli newspaper that’s critical of the Israeli government reporting on an Israeli investigation. Possibly calls the veracity of the tweet into question.

If you search on twitter haaretz nova Israel many will appear. There are links to the newspapers link. It’s up to you if you want to focus on a tweet or on the news

@ScrollingLeaves

Do you not find this choice of quote very telling?

So who killed the civilians at the Festival?

“According to a police source, the investigation also indicates that an IDF combat helicopter that arrived to the scene and fired at terrorists there apparently also hit some festival participants. According to police, 364 people were murdered at the festival.”

They have a section on “who killed the civilians?” and have only chosen the bit about the fact that an Israeli helicopter “apparently also hit” some civilians… but nothing on who actually murdered the vast majority of the 364 victims.

I’ve seen another poster has found the full Hebrew Haaretz article. The English version has to be paid for (except for the first paragraph).

I’m focussing on the tweet because you posted the tweet.

They have juxtaposed “some” hit against the total of 364 “murdered”. That does not seem un measured.

Everyone knows Hamas killed the festival goers. But this is suggesting that not all were murdered by Hamas.

If everyone knows that Hamas killed the festival goers why would you have the subtitle “So who killed the civilians at the Festival?”

If we all know the answer is Hamas then there’s no need for that title. It implies that there is a question mark over it.

A better title would have been “Israeli helicopter may have hit some revellers whilst firing at terrorists”.

They also aren’t juxtaposing some hit against 364 murdered. The ones hit will be amongst the 364 murdered and “some” is a very vague amount. There is nothing to suggest what proportion of those 364 are the “some” that they are talking about.

Those accidentally hit by Israeli helicopters were still murdered by Hamas… in the same way we would consider those who jumped from buildings on 9/11 to have been murdered by Al Qaeda not as suicides.

Here is the Haaretz article translated by Google translate so no doubt not all the translation or expression is perfect.

The screen shot is for a part I couldn’t copy as it was all of links.

If you paste the Hebrew Haaretz article into Google Chrome you can translate it. Then you can follow up with some links. It is perfectly clear that Haaretz reports that Hamas/the terrorists committed a massacre at the music festival.
……….

Security policy
Assessment in the security establishment: Hamas did not know in advance about the Nova festival, and recognized it from the air
The police investigation found that Hamas planned to reach Kibbutz Reim and other kibbutzim, and found out about the party in real time. It also shows that a military helicopter that fired at terrorists apparently also hit some revelers

Joshua (Josh) Breiner
11:48, November 18, 2023

There is a growing assessment in the security establishment that the terrorists who carried out the massacre on October 7 did not know in advance about the Nova festival held near Kibbutz Ra'im, and decided to come to the place after discovering that a mass event was taking place there. The security system's assessment relies, among other things, on the investigations of the terrorists and the investigation of the incident by the police, from which it appears that the terrorists intended to reach Kibbutz Ra'im and nearby kibbutzim. According to a police source, an investigation into the incident also revealed that an IDF combat helicopter that arrived at the scene from the Ramat David base fired at the terrorists and apparently also hit some of the revelers who were there. According to the police, 364 people were killed at the festival

Senior officials estimate that Hamas found out about the existence of the party using drones or parachutes, and directed the terrorists to the location in their communication system. In a video from a body camera of one of the terrorists, he is heard asking a captured citizen for directions to reach the bad guys, even though he was in a different area. One of the findings that strengthen the assessment, according to the police and other security officials, is that the first terrorists arrived at the party from the direction of Route 232
and not from the direction of the fence.

List of links as in the screen shot.

In addition, according to police sources, the party was planned to be held on Thursday and Friday, and on Tuesday evening of the same week, the army approved the organizers of the event to hold it on Saturday as well, after the request of the organizers. The change at the last minute reinforces the assessment that Hamas did not know about the incident

We estimate that about 4,400 people were present at the event, the vast majority of whom managed to escape following a decision to disperse the event that was made four minutes after the rocket barrage," says a senior police officer. The police analysis shows that many of the party participants managed to escape because it was decided to stop the party half an hour before shots were heard.

Takoneko · Today 00:02
If everyone knows that Hamas killed the festival goers why would you have the subtitle “So who killed the civilians at the Festival?”**

That was not my headline but part of the Palestinian Chronicle within which the Haaretz article was quoted.

I stated that what I had written out was from The Palestinian Chronicle - because the actual Haaretz article needed paying for.

Then I gave a link to the actual Haaretz source-article. That was before I found the other poster’s free Haaretz Hebrew link to the same.

I was going to post another translation from a Haaretz report linked in that same article (from the list of links screen-shotted in my last post - ‘….hid in the fridge’).

But as it clearly describes a massacre by ‘the terrorists’ including a first hand account it would need a TRIGGER WARNING so I decided it would be better not to.

People who would like to read anything else can translate for themselves by pasting the Haaretz Hebrew article into Chrome.

@ScrollingLeaves Apologies, I didn’t meat to make it sound like it was your words, I worded that clumsily. It’s the Palestinian Chronicle that I am objecting to. They have made a very dubious decision to insert the question “so who killed the civilians?” before the quote to make it sound like that’s ip
for discussion. Why would they do that?

Anyone who thinks they can say clearly whose 'country it is', has little knowledge of the history of the region. This thread was never about misinformation, clearly as it is full of instagram and aljazeera links.

Takoneko · Today 07:07

@ScrollingLeaves Apologies, I didn’t meat to make it sound like it was your words, I worded that clumsily. It’s the Palestinian Chronicle that I am objecting to. They have made a very dubious decision to insert the question “so who killed the civilians?” before the quote to make it sound like that’s ip
for discussion. Why would they do that?

Thank you @Takenoko.

The point of the Palestinian Chronicle was not what they as a body had to say. The point was the Haaretz article they quoted. As I had not at that point found the free Hebrew version of Haaretz, it was the only way to get the Haaretz information.

Just leaving this here for you to listen.

www.instagram.com/reel/Cz0n7-qpcPV/?igshid=N2ViNmM2MDRjNw==

Absolutely. But unfortunately there are people on here desperate to suggest it’s untrue that Hamas carried out the torture, kidnaps and rapes of Israelis, because it suits their narrative. They’re aware that the reason why Hamas and the Palestines haven’t got the support they want is due in most part to this vile act, and they feel if they can disprove it, that support will then increase for their cause. It’s called ‘clutching at straws’.

The Haaretz article is interesting. Now we have it here for people to read for themselves.

At the time EasterIsland posted the tweet, we didn’t yet have access to read the Haaretz article but the tweet - how ever wrong in itself in how it interpreted the article - did highlight its existence.

That was the point, given there had been earlier discussions/posts about the possibilities, or not, of friendly fire on Oct 7.

To suggest that it means people are therefore trying to prove Hamas did not carry out the tortures, rapes and kidnaps of Israelis is not true.

Bingo. I saw it in a Spanish account. As I didn’t want to post it in Spanish I searched for the words and posted the first tweet that appeared. I managed to get hold and translate hareetzs news as well last night.

but people even after the original source has been posted some people will refuse to accept that indeed Israel killed some of those attending the nova festival when trying to stop the attack. We don’t know how many but some were killed. That was the news. At no point did I bring any tweet saying Hamas didn’t take part of 7-10 in the festival or that they didn’t rape anyone. Those weren’t the tweets words nor mine

So now there's CCTV evidence of hostages being brought to Al Shifa hospital by Hamas, does that mean the doctors saying there was no Hamas activity there were lying? Or something else?

https://x.com/mrconfino/status/1726317044428079588?s=61&t=U9XrcF693-JpMxeIueYG7g

I wondered if the operation would be kept secret or only a very small number from the hospital staff. From an operational security standpoint, you could not be sure who on the staff could be trusted, etc. So, why would they need to know any extra information other than what they needed to complete their roles ?

They didn’t seem to be particularly surreptitious coming in the main door in broad daylight carrying guns?

Why are there 2 different times? The one on the corner says 10:55 but the clock on the wall says almost 4:10.

The clock on the wall appears to have stopped since the minute hand doesn't move during the video clip. Maybe that's why different time.

The clock on the wall is broken. The second hand isn’t moving.