After this there will be silence

[notsoready4school]

Are we really just going to just let this happen. I was upset about the protest ban in France but at least he has finally spoken up. When is the UK going to finally say something and stop letting this happen in our name.

This is the moment we have been warning the whole world the Gaza Deputy Health Minister Dr. Youssef Abu Alreesh, currently inside al-Shifa Hospital as it is takes heavy fire from Israeli forces.
Here are his translated comments:

• This is the moment we have been warning the whole world of, all generators are off, all power sources are out.
• We have 39 newborns in the incubators, those babies are fighting against death.
• No one is able to move around the compound, snipers are stationed all over the place in addition to the drones that target and kill any moving person.
• A few minutes ago one of the engineering team was hit by a sniper, he was hit in the neck and was paralysed and he’s now about to die.
• Part of the hospital was shelled and part of the building caught fire, we fear it will engulf the whole compound.
• A few families tried to leave but they were targeted; now they are lying dead outside the hospital. We cannot get to them.
• We are totally stranded, we are cut off from the outside world, and above all, we are left without any medical resources. We cannot even bury the dead.
• Ferocious gunfire can be heard within the vicinity of the hospital, the intensive care unit received a mortar shell a few minutes ago.
• Blood is everywhere, on the floor, we cannot even clean it.
• In the past, the Israeli killing machine was killing and this was conveyed on TV screens. Now they are perpetrating the same killing but no one is listening, no one is watching, the whole world is standing by.
• We are speaking with whatever is left of my phone battery, after that, we will be silent.

Please read that again.

It's terrible. Absolutely terrible. The destruction they caused to get into Al shifa hospital and for what?
The doctors have repeatedly said there are no headquarters there. They welcomed a third party to come and check too
The BBC report is a clear indicator of what many are thinking
The Al shifa raid has definitely been a tipping point for many

All this time people are saying the IDF is incompetent when really this was what they intended all along
From the horse's mouth

No tipping point, the only people who can have any say in this ceasefire are the Israelis and you can see from these forums the comments they make. They value Palestinian lives as zero, probably would have more sympathy for a real animal death. And these are the women who post in these forums, often living in the UK so not even in the midst of it. Can’t imagine the response from the males. Despite this they keep going, they keep egging on more deaths with the ‘but Hamas’ why can’t they see how wrong it is.

Most don’t even seem to seek the truth, they are fed lies and are satisfied to keep going on that basis, the number of posters happy with the few guns found and appearing to believe grenades hidden behind MRI scanner!?

I don’t even understand US stance, how, just how can they be so meek. Even their own public statements get ignored and they keep rolling over for Israel

It really is extremely upsetting.
There was a video of one of the family members of the hostages. He was addressing member of the Israeli government and was very upset. He was saying you keep making statements like 'we will destroy Gaza' and 'we will raze Gaza to the ground' how do you think we feel knowing this is what you intend when our family is inside there
He rightly calls them out on this
Most of these statements that talk about destruction don't say Hamas. They mostly all say 'Gaza'

The Israeli government don't care about the hostages. They are just a means to an end for them.

@PurpleCrocs3 The families of the hostages certainly do have grievances with the government.
Praying this all ends and the hostages and innocent in israli jails are all released and can be reunited with their families

@notsoready4school please give examples of egging on more death'? Would be equally horrified and surprised if that is the case?

@Parkingt111 it's a clever ploy by Hamas.
No sign of life or even letting families know who is alive?
Creates division within Israel for the obvious reasons.
Offering some not all. No consideration given for babies, those separated from their families, the lady pregnant who will have given birth.
It would send anyone mad with grief.
It's the not knowing.

@Stomacharmeleon yes I agree.
I think the point the man whose I think cousin or neice that was being held hostage was saying that every time the politicians talk about destroying Gaza, don't they think that what the families must be feeling. And unfortunately that is what keeps being repeated... destroying Gaza rather than destroying Hamas
They have turned Gaza in a graveyard with mass destruction
The BBC journalist said too... it some places it looks like an earthquake has happened

@Parkingt111 they just need to say what has happened to them. It would go a long way to kick starting talks.
I agree with what you are saying.

The BBC report didn't say that at all. It said the IDF had found evidence that Hamas had definitely been there (inside the hospital), and that they think they have withdrawn into tunnels beneath, which haven't been found yet. It's not like the BBC reporters can just wander round a war zone looking for themselves. If Israel turn out to be wrong about the hospital being used by Hamas that's not going to go well for them - it will be the equivalent of our 'weapons of mass destruction' moment.

@firstpasttheposter according to the IDF. The proof shown was nowhere near what would be in the Hamas headquarters or what the IDF was claiming to have found
It's clearly very sceptical.

After almost 24 hours securing and searching the hospital, Israel says it has found weapons and other equipment that could help provide information on both Hamas fighters and the hostages. But it has its hands on neither.

It is the weapons of mass destruction moment. You have just closed your eyes to the possibility that the guns have been placed there. No actual infrastructure that couldn’t have placed there has been found (tunnel entries). The last thing we should expect Hamas to leave behind are perfectly good rifles. They wouldn’t leave those as they have had tons of time to get out given the build up and these things are valuable and easily portable. That too should be really curious to a person looking at this with a genuine search for truth.

Lately It is next to impossible for IDF to back away with their credibility intact even within Israel without saying they found something. You must be able to see that? There is no way they can see nothing given all they have done to get there and the whole world is watching as they attack a hospital without any explanation.

I suppose Israel is rumoured to have nukes, and a minister recently suggested dropping one on Gaza. Maybe politicians are afraid to trigger something worse if they don't allow the Israeli government to do what they want. Although the west did stand up to Putin, I suppose, who may be equally as volatile as some of Netanyahu's government.
@firstpasttheposter I'm confused about the tunnels. I thought Israeli architects built them, so they would know the layout? Or have they been greatly modified since Israel left Gaza?

I wasn't sure how to interpret that bit - did it mean they can't show them the equipment? because there are pictures of guns. Or does it mean they're nowhere nearer to finding the hostages? The fact is, Hamas are unlikely to stick around waiting for the IDF to turn up, so it's difficult to prove either way. I'm not sure where this speculation is getting us. My original point was I thought more would have been done to evacuate the hospital, and I can't see why is such an unusual situation of war (the claim being made that a hospital is being used as headquarters) more couldn't have been done by other countries to prevent the humanitarian catastrophe.

This is a very unusual war. Even the worst tyrannical governments have the sense to keep their own doctors alive and their own hospitals running - if only to get medical aid for their own soldiers, at least. Hamas are beyond mental if they are using a hospital as a base. But it's not the first time that claim has been made. Bill Clinton made it years ago. October 11 should have showed the world how mental Hamas actually are, and it's difficult to understand why people are still denying that.

I'm confused about the tunnels. I thought Israeli architects built them so they would know the layout? Or have they been greatly modified since Israel left Gaza?

The tunnels [and underground operating theatre] were built in 1983 which is a long time ago and there has been major development of the site in the last 40 years

Tho' you'd think it would be a good place to start wouldn't you?

@Efacsen Yes, I can imagine they have been changed in all those years, but as you say it seems like they should know the basic location and lay out.

@firstpasttheposter I agree about evacuating but evacuate to where? There's barely any functioning hospitals in Gaza and none at the capacity that can take on all the ill patients. There has also been continuous strikes around the hospital so unsafe to leave. You have seen yourself that an ambulance convoy was attacked
The international community should have stepped up and arranged to have them evacuated out of Gaza but nobody did. And if they tried would Israel have allowed it? As they have been so forceful of their claims of the hospital being Hamas headquarters yet have little to show for it.

Fortunately a lot of those posts have been removed but if you have been active on these forums it is impossible to have missed them, unfortunately.

@firstpasttheposter I do actually think Hamas are willing to see the population of Gaza wiped out. Their mentality is that they will never surrender. Of course, the leaders may plan to escape, but the sacrifice of the civilians is a price they are willing to pay - I think.

My original point was I thought more would have been done to evacuate the hospital, and I can't see why is such an unusual situation of war (the claim being made that a hospital is being used as headquarters) more couldn't have been done by other countries to prevent the humanitarian catastrophe.

In your original post you suggested that the staff could have been 'airlifted out' - there's a few problems with that ie the doctors have refused to leave and abandon their patients to a certain death, flying a helicopter for instance into a blizzard of missiles. artillery fire would be save no-one - and IDF resolutely refuse any kind of humanitarian ceasefire no matter how brief

As for evacuating a hospital with 900 beds - how do you even do that when there is nowhere for the patients to go, no fuel to transport them, no ceasefire - evacuating another hospital involved driving the staff out and putting the patients on the pavement outside

So strictly speaking the hospital was evacuated in terms of it being empty but the patients weren't evacuated to safety

I didn't mean the staff should leave the patients - I meant the most critically ill who can't be moved any other way should have been airlifted out, and they would need some staff with them. Would probably have required a humanitarian pause to do that.

Basically, I understand why the UK and US won't back a ceasefire, but after this is all over there needs to be a serious review of the rules of war and how to deal with this type of enemy and this type of situation.

review of the rules you say… hmm? Interested to hear what you would propose? what should change?

It's not meekness. The fact is, those people were murdered by Hamas for no other reason than because they were Jews - Starmer is right. The attempt to try and blame Israel and deny that this was something other than a pogrom just hasn't gone down well with most leaders in the US and the UK. They don't want to be the ones to say Israel doesn't have the right to try to take out Hamas.