The cenotaph and poppy sellers

[LittleMooli]

Hi, would anyone mind explaining to me why the media seems to be portraying that remembrance commemorations are being targeted by pro-palestinian protests? I don't really know enough to know how the two things are linked.

hello, Home Secretary!

Exactly @PurpleChrayne. So frustrating. The majority of these posters don’t have to actually face up to this intimidatory bullshit shutting down their streets, filling up tubes and chanting slogans in public transport on our way to work. They’ve got no idea how intimidating it is for ordinary people getting on with their lives. Let alone how frightening it must be for Jewish Londoners.

“Peaceful” - are these posters having a laugh or just deliberately blind to the chanting of terrorist slogans, intimidation of anyone not joining them.

"Let alone how frightening it must be for Jewish Londoners."... let us not forget that thousands of Jewish people are protesting side by side against this horrific war.

I wholeheartedly support a ceasefire and freeing the hostages but also agree with the above. If I were the organisers I'd encourage everyone marching to wear a massive great poppy to try to counter the right wing 'hate marches' view. Make poppies really prominent on every news agency photo of the march and see how the Daily Mail spin it.

There are many Jewish people ON the marches!

Exactly.

I believe most UK people want a ceasefire.

That may be the case but Jewish people won’t all be feeling the same way

And many have talked about feeling intimidated and other valid feelings

https://new.thecradle.co/articles/76-percent-of-uk-citizens-want-ceasefire-in-gaza-poll

@Kendodd 76% of Brits want a ceasefire according to this article.

Let us not forget how intimidated the Gazan people must feel at the moment, with over 10k dead and 2.3m without food, water and medicine and most displaced without shelter. We must speak up for them.

armistice
/ˈɑːmɪstɪs/
noun
an agreement made by opposing sides in a war to stop fighting for a certain time; a truce.

I don't know how may times you need to hear it @PurpleChrayne, people are not marching to support terrorism. The are marching for a ceasefire. To make their voices heard. It is definitely appropriate. There are 100s of Jewish participating but that obviously doesn't fit your pro israel narrative.

I live in a small town in West Yorkshire. I work in the neighbouring city which has high levels of deprivation and a city known for riots.

There was a demonstration and collective prayer, organised by the Council of Mosques, a couple of Saturday's ago and it attracted thousands of people, the invitation was a call to all Muslims, people of faith and of no faith to come peacefully in solidarity with the people of Gaza. There was no violence and no arrests. An offence rate of 0%.

There was a smaller but similar demonstration in my hometown and again, no trouble. The local conservative MP tried to whip up some false outrage about some wording on a sign that he'd seen on a photo (he didn't attend) and he was quickly dismissed by locals of all ethnicities and faiths who'd attended, he said a particular sign used a particular phrase but it didn't. The MP seemed a bit disappointed tbh. There was no violence and no arrests. An offence rate of 0%.

There have been three demonstrations in London and according to Reuters there have been approx 100,000 people at each demonstration. Reuters: 'Since Oct. 7, London police have made 188 arrests for hate crimes, including 98 for suspected antisemitic offences, 21 for Islamophobic offences and 12 for "faith hate crimes". The rest were for public order offences, many of which were racially aggravated.' An offence rate of 0.1%.

There is a legal test that states 'intelligence needs to show that a threat of serious disorder likely' before police can shut down demonstrations. There is no evidence that these demonstrations are causing or likely to cause serious disorder so what is the motivation for calling for the police commissioner to Downing Street to assure Sunak of the safety of the event?

TBH I would have thought that Tommy Robinson rallying EDL types to protect a monument that the protest route is going nowhere near tells us more about who is looking for trouble.

I hope the march passes off peacefully and anyone using it to cause trouble is quickly dealt with by the police. People marching for peace tend not to go looking for fights.

EasternStandard
**
What you think of as public sentiment will depend on what you look at”

Well yes, obviously. QT always makes up an audience representative of the voting public in the area it’s in.

I’d say it’s more divided up than that, it’s still skewed.

Eg the DM will show different views, and people will watch GB News. They could be as representative of the area they are in too.

It depends what you access

It’s the language that Irks me. painting anyone in these marches as rough and uncivilised out there just to cause trouble , suggesting that’s it’s just a certain type of demographic < those out of London plebs>
it’s an old tactic to discourage and silence people.

this conflict has brought out so much hate and racism towards certain backgrounds , so shameful.

@queenofarles yes, I have seen posters on MN calling Jewish people protesting and marching against the war some really horrible anti-semitic names (their posts have rightly been deleted), it really is quite something.

It’s not a tactic to silence people @queenofarles, it is true reporting of what people are experiencing here during these protests.

I’m sorry if that doesn’t fit your narrative. I support a ceasefire, and I acknowledge that there are plenty genuinely protesting for peace. However there are very evidently large contingents with different intentions on the marches too. If you have even looked at photos you would have to acknowledge that.

Saturday's march is organised by the Stop the War Coalition, a well known group that marches against wars everywhere. My husband and I are Jewish and he will be joining the march, which I would have if I didn't have a significant commitment that afternoon,a Jewish bloc is attending and has its own specific meeting point.

Could there be Muslim extremists joining? It's possible. But unfortunately seeing as the police will now have to waste time and energy babysitting right wing thugs thanks to Braverman they'll have less capacity to deal with those individuals who should be come down on hard.

Back to the OP, Braverman pulled the idea of vandalism of the Cenotaph out of her arse, no protests would ever have been allowed along Whitehall on remembrance weekend for practical reasons, let alone the matter of respect, and this one was always going to be on a different route and we'll after the silence. But Braverman wasn't going to let that stand in the way of finding another way to stop totally legal and justified protest she happened not to agree with.

Exactly- the proposed route does not go down Whitehall (where the cenotaph is) and the nearest it gets to there is the end. Since the march isn't scheduled to start until after the cenotaph service finishes they're unlikely to crossover.

Of course there are some people who will 1) try to use the march for their own anarchistic/violent purposes and/or
2) try to weaponise it, making out that taking any position on the current Gaza situation is disrespectful to historic war

Nobody is denying that a tiny minority are causing some problems (many of which are subsequently debunked such as the Poppy seller that was reported as attacked but apparently didn't happen)

Police find no evidence of poppy seller attack at protest despite Sunak's blast:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cops-find-no-evidence-poppy-31399587

The overwhelming vast majority are marching peacefully.

Smearing everyone with the same brush is problematic and wrong. Including irresponsible reporting of events like the above poppy seller that have no evidence.

In fact I would say these smears are what encourage right wing nut jobs like Tommy Robinson to show up and cause trouble.

Agreed.

I don’t think you can hinge the whole thing on a poppy seller

Other videos show aggression

No one will stop you turning up, others will form an opinion on whether they feel it is right

We haven’t banned marches as in France. People will feel differently

I have concern for increasing antisemitism in the U.K., so I will more likely respond to how posters feel in connection with that

Thank you!

I've just checked the actual route, and it's going to cause all sorts of traffic mayhem (and impinge on some parts of London where the big protests don't usually go).

For those who may be interested, it is due to start at noon in Hyde Park, going along Park Lane (possibly still inside the Park itself rather than on the road for that bit) then over Hyde Park Corner and then south along Grosvenor Place (the road that runs along the SW edge of Buckingham Palace garden) round on to Victoria Road (ie close to the railway station and its bus station) then along Vauxhall Bridge Road, over Vauxhall Bridge, turning right on to the Thames Path and then on to Nine Elms Road to finish by the US Embassy.

So nowhere near Whitehall!

I don’t think you can hinge smearing the whole thing on the actions of a few bad actors.

But yes I agree these specific people should absolutely be dealt with.