Israel has bombed the front of a hospital

[TakeMe2Insanity]

Israel has bombed the gates of the Al Shalha hospital.

Everyone knows displaced families are sheltering in and near hospitals.

I’ve watched a video clip today where the Israeli Minister for Agriculture Avi Dichter is saying that they are rolling out the Nakba for Gaza.

It’s like they are unable to contain their glee.

Nothing is happening.
They are being left to die by Israel.

There’s a lot of posters on here that will be jumping for joy aswell.
Disgusting

Earlier in the thread there was a discussion about Netenyahus tactic of trying to engage Hamas, supporting visas, turning a blind eye to Hamas corruption siphoning aid etc in the hope that they would leave well enough alone. It was pilloried as an idea that would never work. How do you lull an organisation with the sworn motto of the destruction of Israel into a false sense of security? Switch off the iron dome?

@Hiddenmnetter You draw the fighting away from hospitals, retreat a little, getting them to follow you. That way you keep it away from vulnerable people in hospitals and you get your actual targets.

But Hamas won’t follow. They want the IDF to withdraw because Al Shifa is a base of their operations. They can then carry on doing whatever they want to do (presumably to plan their next attack) without harassment. IDF can’t draw them off, if they move away, the fighting stops, and Hamas carry on operations as usual. Israel gets more rockets launched at it, and apparently another breakthrough where more Israeli citizens are murdered, raped, tortured and kidnapped.

This isn’t a zonal conflict in the sense of urban warfare and the hospital happens to be in the way. Hamas use civilian infrastructure to hide their centres of operation. They rely on civilian casualties to try and stop the IDF striking their strongholds. When the IDF launch their “knock on the roof” (a rocket with no explosive head) on an apartment block to get civilians to flee because they know the building is being used by Hamas, Hamas then force the women and children to climb onto the roof.

How do you engage that without collateral damage?

I think this is probably correct. However presumably they want to do what they can to soften any targets before engaging because that will ultimately mean less IDF casualties. And while the IDF is large, well trained and well equipped, it’s not unlimited.

I'm not convinced it's impossible to draw them out. I'm sure a temptation to attack could be created. It's a finer approach than bombing all and sundry, but I think it would be better for Israel's reputation. Still. I'm not a military strategist so I'm back to calling for a ceasefire. The death of 10000 civilians is not acceptable to me, and I don't think Israel is ever coming back from the killing of 39 premature babies, frankly.

The excuse given for killing so many civilians and fighting in and around hospitals is that there is intelligence of Hamas being in that area.

What is their definition of a member of Hamas?

How confident can we be that this intelligence information is correct?

How confident can we be that this intelligence is provided and acted on with integrity?

How confident can we be that those on the ground are able to act logically while in a state of heightened fear and in an aggressive environment?

Who is holding them accountable?

The Israelis are claiming they did attept to get some fuel to the hospital but the hospital director refused it. Believe it or dismiss it as propaganda, as you wish:

https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1723753240162865350

https://twitter.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1723742748811894802

@PeasfullPerson well said
They don't have any concrete evidence
They are just on a rampage killing whoever they want and demolishing whatever they feel like that day. Precisely because nobody is holding them accountable
And anyone who tries to is labelled as a hater or Anti semite

Unfortunately nobody wins. The Palestinians lose their lives. Israel loses its credibility and is isolated by many countries aswell is creating many new enemies

Honestly Israel would have lost a lot more credibility in the eyes of many Middle Eastern countries had it not retaliated.

Well they've lost 'credibility' anyway with this strategy which isn't impressing it's Arab neighbours one bit

From being about to normalise relationships with Saudi - the plans were quietly shelved post 7/10 - after 5 weeks of this face-saving strategy/violent rampage and Saudi is calling for economic sanctions and ceasing to supply Israel with oil

Even if it's true, what is needed is for fighting around hospitals to stop.

@SomeCatFromJapan
Ofcourse nobody expected them not to react. Not even Hamas I am sure.
But they seem at best incompetent and reckless or they are just doing a fantastic job of listening to Netanyahu's orders of collectively punishing all the 'Amalekites' and destroying everything they can

Israel's president also said this morning that the hospital has electricity and everything is working. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67397963 It is not entirely clear to me, in that case, why the IDF is claiming they tried to get fuel to the hospital.

Just when you think you have heard it all..
From the times of Israel
I'm sure he's also hoping to get tips on how to evade being prosecuted as a war criminal
Who is Netanyahu's advisor because he needs to be sacked

Everything they say and claim is unravelling before them. Must be extremely frustrating for them, which is why as each day goes the propaganda gets wilder. I sometimes wonder if amongst this there is some sort of sociological experiment to see how far their words and actions can contradict each other before people start pushing back