Hamas official declares "we will repeat Oct. 7 attacks until Israel is 'finished'"

[Poudretteite]

https://nationalpost.com/news/senior-hamas-official-we-will-repeat-oct-7-until-israel-is-finished

This is from 7th October 2023. Make no mistake, Hamas view the State of Israel as an occupation itself which isn't how most Western useful idiots are understanding the problem. 🤷‍♂️

You know who most want Israel gone? The ultra orthodox Jews, because it's literally not for mankind to have brought about in the way they did.

See I don't get this. Is this supposed to be some kind of gotcha? For deep religious reasons a small minority of orthodox Jews don't agree that Israel should exist, yet they're used triumphantly as important evidence that Israel is invalid. Extremist Muslims are dismissed as not practising Real Islam but their Jewish counterparts have got it absolutely spot on and are the only ones worth listening to? Hmm 🤔

How about the fact that they mostly live on welfare, do not sign up for the IDF, and are becoming a much larger proportion of the Israeli populace because of their larger families?

That, tied with Palestinians also becoming a much larger populace, means that the IDF is pretty fucked.

There are too many things working against this project carrying on as it is. The Hamas attack has set into motion things that we reshape the region, and this is more prominent and dangerous in a multi-polar world now that the US is no longer able to just do what it wants without China and Russia stepping in.

I don't know, but the latest PR gaffes of the IDF impressively wiping out refugee camps continually is probably bad for their longterm support when even Republicans in the US are questioning AIPAC and Likud.

Specifically how do you see the dismantling of the present Israeli state panning out in practical terms?

Ultra Orthodox Jews do not want Israel 'gone'. Many are signing up to volunteer with the IDF. They are also not a homogenous 'anti-Zionist' group.

Specifically how do you see the dismantling of the present Israeli state panning out in practical terms?

I would love an answer to this too. I never get one though. Maybe this time it will be different.

@PurpleOrchid42 completely agree they shouldn't be killing innocent civilians either but genuinely asking what do you think they should do? How do they remove that threat?

There are 9 million Israeli citizens. 7 million of those are Jewish. To dismantle Israel would mean that you would endanger the lives of 7 million Jewish people. As Hamas and Iran point out quite openly they and some other extreme Islamics don't want Jews on the land. Therefore is the Jews won't leave they will kill them. As all the other surrounding Arab states ethically cleansed there Jews. Those that fled and survived that took made a home in Israel. So for a start where exactly do you expect them to go? Frankly if you don't see that dismantling Israel is antisemitism them you need to educate yourself on the history and the current hate speeches being made in the middle east by different groups of extremist leaders.

Wanting the dismantling of the preset Israeli state

What does this entail?

Yes, "thousands" of Haredi have signed up. That's not even a drop in the bucket. To take a city like Gaza City alone, you need hundreds of thousands of experienced frontline soldiers who know MOUT combat. The IDF do not have these people, so these guys can sign up, just don't expect them to walk out of Gaza City after going in. The Russians literally levelled Grozny and it still became a meatgrinder for them, and the IDF are no Russian Army.

The guy who oversaw the Battle of Fallujah left for Israel a week ago and went back to the US after a couple of days with the leaving message of "you're on your own, Israel". That's how out of their depth the IDF is.

AS for dismantling the state, it's not impossible that civil war happens or simple outside forces bring about a collapse in the state's ability to function. All those mobilised people are now not doing the jobs they were doing in the tech sector or services or hospitality etc. No one is going to visit a warzone, and others will sanction the nation for what it's currently prosecuting.

Hezbollah are still on the sidelines. In 2014, they rocked the IDF by themselves, and they've only increased their capabilities. It's just a matter of when Nasrallah pulls the trigger or not. You now have the Houthis actively targeting Israel (the US said not to, after shooting down one of their ballistic missiles, so the Yemenis sent several more to make a point).

The Iron Dome has only so many interceptors, and they cost upwards of $50k each to take out $300 rockets by Hamas. It's only a matter of time before more places are given open and unprotected airspace as they have their AD reserves depleted, much as Russia did to Ukraine.

Does that then lead to Bibi negotiating a ceasefire? Who knows? Either way, there is no off ramp here. They've already crossed the Rubicon, so to speak, and I think this ends any naïve ideas of a negotiated settlement. It's Palestinians vs. the Israeli state, and I do not see how they come out of this better.

They either genocide each and every Palestinian, which will more than likely lead to the Arab nations waking the fuck up and taking action. Or they call an arbitrary truce at some point, which only leads to Hamas and everyone else seeing that the IDF is utterly toothless now and has to rely on US carrier strike groups in the Med to deter anyone else. That is NOT a good place to be in for the nation.

Indeed. And I would suggest pretending none of this is the case surely falls under the remit of “wilfully dense” doesn’t it?

Galicia was actually the most favoured idea for a Jewish state last century.

Turns out, siting your Jewish people in a proverbial hornets nest and then kicking said nest was a dumb idea. Not panning out so well, and had it not been for the US pivot to keeping Israel as their ace in the hole in the ME along with superpower status, it would have ended badly a long time ago. The Yom Kippur war was a very close all, with the Samson Option almost being taken.

Then the answer is to murder all the Palestinians, I guess. At least be honest about it.

They either genocide each and every Palestinian, which will more than likely lead to the Arab nations waking the fuck up and taking action.

I do not think this is likely at all.

Then the answer is to murder all the Palestinians, I guess. At least be honest about it.

Are you suggesting I would support this?

No, I am saying that is the route Israel is taking as it has basically no recourse. It's that or ethnic cleansing.

They vowed to get rid of Hamas by going about it in a way that ensures Hamas 2 comes straight after it. So they cannot let the current situation exist, which means they do one of those options.

There is a third, but it's basically something talked about in The West Wing and involves a multi-national peacekeeping force running Gaza (and I guess the West Bank should it kick off, which it very well might as they've stopped anyone earning money over there now).

No it isn't. Most the other Arabs states leaders met with Isn't the start of this. They want Hamas gone too, plus don't give a toss about the Palestinian people as we have seen by them killing Palestinians on mass over the years. Anyway thre was a lot of handshakes and agreements with Israel. What we see them to now is make some disapproving noises to keep their own Muslim population happy. However they are not at all doing anything to stop Israel. So those hand shakes and agreements about what Israel will do seem to have stuck. The Palestinian Authority leader was also in these meetings.

This very much depends on the populace. The leaders of most Arab states now may be US puppets happy with their treats, however, there are massive protests in most of these nations. Turkey has had huge ones too, and for all the talk by Erdogan, I know he'll play both sides like he did NATO and Russia the last two years.

If Arab Spring 2 is on the cards, you bet your bottom dollar they will change their attitude rather than get couped. Sisi is a total piece of shit, though I can always rely on someone like that looking out for number one.

We shall certainly see what the limits are for people witnessing this. I imagine if Hezbollah has any balls, they will get in as soon as the IDF is bogged down in Gaza City proper.

If you oppress murder and squash people into a box. Eventually they will try to break free. Israel literally created the mess themselves. Then act surprised when it happens

So Hamas massacring civilians was them "breaking free"?

The reality is Gaza only turned into a Hamas terrorist breeding ground from the moment Israel withdrew its army from Gaza in 2005.

This meant it was much easier for Iran to supply Hamas with weapons, including via the Sinai Peninsula which Egypt only managed to shut off in 2014. Once again, Hamas found it difficult to acquire weapons which meant they learned how to manufacture their own weapons inside Gaza to the detriment of local Gazans.

Following Israel's withdrawal from Gaza in 2005, Hamas beat Palestinian Authority's Fatah in the 2006 elections. This led to a conflict between Hamas and Fatah which ended in Fatah being booted out of Gaza by Hamas. From then on, Gaza became a terrorist breeding ground as Hamas set about increasing their total membership, creating very extensive tunnel networks under Gaza, manufactured their own weapons, strengthened their links with Iran, taxed Gazans and any trade which was used to acquire materials to create weapons and so on.

In the long-term and in hindsight, it was a huge mistake for Israel to withdraw from Gaza in the first place. But I don't think this reality is what you were thinking of when you said Israel was complicit in creating a terrorist breeding ground.

There is no option now - Hamas cannot be allowed to rule Gaza.

Apparently Hamas are freedom fighters and resistance to some people on mumsnet

Makes wonder about the how the next generation grow up and what their moral compass will be like doesn't it

@Trulywonderful Hamas are brutal, violent, cruel, desperate and deranged people. I'm also very concerned about the moral compass of people who think there is any justification for killing thousands of children. I'm really worried about people who will actually argue that it's completely understandable to murder, maim, torture, starve, bomb and traumatise toddlers.

I agree with you. That is also terrible and some people will try and justify anything. That is simply not right. One of the reasons why I get so cross about the number of people using the protest marches as a tool for glorifying Hamas and spreading hate into this world. If only everyone could ask for peace and to stop killings on both sides.

Is national post credible??

So many people don't seem to realise that Israel continues to be bombarded night and day with rockets from Hamas too. The only reason they're not being 'carpet bombed' is thanks to a great defence system, but on a daily basis, people in big areas of Israel are living in their safe rooms, on semi-lockdowns, terrified to leave their homes. And yet strangely big chunks of the world seem to be putting the responsibility on Israel to stop this. They are under assault, what are they supposed to do? Offer Hamas a cup of tea while they continue to be heavily attacked?