In one paragraph can you summarise the Israel / Hamas conflict?

[curmudgeonlydoesit]

as if I was 12 please?

Then we will agree to differ.

Fine by me.
As your logic is pretty unconvincing.

I am curious about this, I'm not neither side it's awful what's happening, I am curious if a goverment who is known as a terrorist organisation would they really have fair and legitimate elections? Like when was the last fair election? If they are prepared to kill anyone including children was they fairly elected and continued fairly elected?

even if we do a crazy assumption that every adult, say50% of the population (ridiculous assumption) voted for Hamas 17 years ago, does that mean 17 years later Israel is right to kill all the children there ?

Don’t fall for these silly distraction techniques. This is all propaganda to justify the slaughter.

most countries have elections regularly not once in a lifetime and if you made the mistake one in your rebellious youth do you deserve the wrath of Israel and for your children to be dismembered?

Yes, a previous poster says what’s happening now is the Gazans own fault as they should have written to their MP.

The mind boggles.

And this illustrates exactly why religion is ridiculous and harmful.

People of different religions live side by side happily in many countries. The issue is when one of them is a bully.

@notsoready4school most wars in the world have been over religion and nationalism.

No-one can give a summary of this conflict in a paragraph. Lots of excellent sources have been set out in PPs. Things to keep in mind if you are new to this:

Israel is a parliamentary democracy with citizens of a number of ethnicities and religions. Around 3/4 are Jewish, around 1/4 Muslim (although with significant minorities of Christian and others). The current government is particularly hard line and is facing significant issues internally. There have been periods in Israel 's political past where it has been more conciliatory to the Palestinian cause. "Israeli'" does not equal "Jewish". "Jewish" does not equal Zionist, "Israeli" is a citizenship description not a description of a religious or political allegiance.

Hamas is an organisation that has a history of armed conflict representing a particularly anti-Israel and anti-Jewish, Islamist view. It has a political "face" and a military/terrorist "face" (debatable how separate these are). Hamas provides a type of political administration in Gaza, following elections but Israel has had significant control over Gaza for some time (early 2000s? Can't remember) in that it controls borders, and access to electricity and water. Gaza is a very small but very significant flashpoint for conflict between Israel and Palestine (the other being the West Bank). Hamas has long been part of a broad coalition of parties and groupings struggling for Palestinian freedom. However, it is very hard line and doesn't represent the majority of Muslim Palestinians (Palestinian politics is very multi-faceted as with most countries). There have been times when more moderate voices have had more prominence in Palestinian struggle and there are still a number of other political parties and groupings that represent various views in Palestine.

They were expelled from their countries in response to the founding of Israel, which was not even their doing. Where else could they go?

America? New Zealand? Somewhere they didn't have to force the people already there out and take their land by force.

If you break it down based on your definition, most people in the UK are settlers. What a racist dickhead you are.

Or the descendants of settlers from a long tim ago. The last time Britain was settled and colonised was 1066 and over the course of time, people mingled and became one nation.

The Normans were murderous ethnic cleansers, too.

I know it wasn't you who said it, but someone suggested that British people of Pakistani origin must be settlers and colonialists, by my logic.

That's risible, they are immigrants who applied to live in the UK, within a legal framework. They haven't arrived, then stolen the land of white Bradforians, for example and then used military force to keep and expand the territory.

It's a risible claim.

But @SinnerBoy that’s not what happened. Jews were SOLD that land by absentee Arab landlords. Some Jews. MANY already lived there. And lots of it was just random desert under prior British ownership. They didn’t force anyone out until the surrounding Arab states declared war, and the they won that war so took the land. That is always the risk you take going to war; that you lose. And lose the land.

The issue with the West Bank is that many of these ‘settlers’ can prove that the land/houses belonged to their families before it became Jordanian territory in the 60s. And so want it back. It’s been going through courts for (clearly) many many years and lots have now successfully proven its theirs. Personally I don’t feel that the Jewish Israelis are going about it the right way and lots are behaving like absolute wankers; but again it’s an area where you really need to avail yourself of the history of WHY these disputes are going on before you start saying stuff like ‘Jews should go to New Zealand’

Are you talking to yourself? 🤔

Please don't post rubbish.
How do you know what 'most of us' think?

In the wake of the 1948-49 war, Gaza was occupied by Egypt for 19 years.

Israel had control of the Gaza strip from the 1967 war until 2005, then they gave it to the Palestinian Authority in return for peace - which didn't happen.

No-one wants Gaza. Egypt didn't want it back in 2005 and the Israelis certainly don't want it.

@Jeezypeepers They didn’t force anyone out until the surrounding Arab states declared war, and the they won that war so took the land. That is always the risk you take going to war; that you lose. And lose the land.
That really isn't how war works. That's why Germany, Japan and Italy aren't currently occupied states controlled by the countries from the winning side in WW2.

The way war works is that both side kill lots of people until both realise that this is a stupid way to do things and you start talking and you settle where the borders should have been all along if you hadn't done all the killing but just talked like civilised human beings in the first place.

That's a cop out. The OP is asking for a summary BECAUSE there's so much misinformation. I guarantee if you tried, it'd be ripped to shreds just like all the other examples above. But if you're not up to it...

Jeezypeepers· Yesterday 21:55

But @SinnerBoy that’s not what happened. Jews were SOLD that land by absentee Arab landlords. Some Jews.

That's entirely counterfactual. About 6% of the Palestinian Territory was sold to Jewish immigrants. A large proportion of what is now de facto Israel was taken in war, which is a war crime.

To say otherwise is simply ridiculous. It's ongoing, they're taking more of the West Bank as I type, for goodness sake!

That is exactly how war generally works, @YireosDodeAver far too many examples to name but borders, territories and empires have all evolved throughout history due to the conquest of land. Sudan is a major one happening right now but there are plenty of others. If Argentina had won the Falkland War they would no longer be British.

But of course this conflict isn't really about land, it's about the hatred of Jews.

Let’s see.

If the Palestinians homes were entirely destroyed and they were driven out, Israel would certainly have wanted that land. If they leave, they won’t get back in. Too many people protesting now, and Biden has warned the Israelis that it would be a mistake to take Gaza. So we’ll see.

If the Gazans leave, they won’t get back in, I meant.

What Israel wants is to be left alone, it doesn't want Gaza.

It's interesting that the poster who said Gazans should take it up with their MP's was absolutely derided. Like innumerable postage stamp sized countries / territories Gazans could have chosen to develop their own functioning democracy with working utilities and the welfare of their citizens its priority. Instead it chose to devote itself to relentlessly attacking its nearest neighbour and deliberately exposing its population to danger with the inevitable result that Israel has to rely on blockades/ checkpoints etc to protect itself.

Gaza has received more international aid per head than any other territory.

And Israel is the recipient of the largest amount of aid from the US since WW2. It has received billions and continues to do so.
Yet far from “wanting to be left alone” it has continued to encroach illegally outside the borders that were agreed, receiving international condemnation over the years, and making life more and more intolerable for its neighbours.

As the UN and many others have pointed out, this “war” (of two very unequal sides) started long before October 7.

Agree with you on the Settlers. At least in Israel you can write to your MP.