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Conflict in the Middle East

Placards from antisemitic marches in London

1000 replies

BlurredEdges · 30/10/2023 18:07

I had written this as a response to the other thread which was closed as it was overrun by antisemitic d**ks. As I'm sure this one will be too. They can't allow us to share the truth of what is being said and done in our own home towns and cities.

Look at these images. No, they are not in the minority or unusual. Here are just a few of many, many overtly antisemitic placards from Saturday's protest in London. (And a bonus one from 2021, which the lovely John McDonnell also spoke at.)

This is MY HOME. I am Jewish. My family fled pogroms in Eastern Europe and Nazis in Germany. Those family members who didn't flee were murdered for being Jews. And here we fucking are again. In London. And people defending it.

This is NOTHING TO DO WITH ISRAEL. These are Jew-haters, the faces of hate, the faces of anger and mockery, openly calling for Jews, for me, my family, my children, my parents, to be murdered, in my home city.

And people are defending it. How the fuck do you think we feel?

Placards from antisemitic marches in London
Placards from antisemitic marches in London
Placards from antisemitic marches in London
Placards from antisemitic marches in London
OP posts:
Thread gallery
78
Fallenangelofthenorth · 12/11/2023 22:54

Twillow · 12/11/2023 22:45

openly calling for Jews, for me, my family, my children, my parents, to be murdered, in my home city.

I don't see this anywhere on the posters, sorry, could you explain a bit more why you say that?

The thread has moved on and includes video footage taken around the marches which includes 2 in particular that stick in my mind; one of a woman saying "kill all the Jews" and one of a man ranting and including the phrase "Hitler knew what to do with rhem".

This thread is very long now, but they are just two that stick in my mind.

Are you saying the poster is wrong to feel threatened? I'd feel threatened by that.

DevonWindyWeather · 12/11/2023 22:54

Fallenangelofthenorth · 12/11/2023 22:37

I'm not Jewish, but I've been mainly watching and occasionally commenting on these threads because I work for a Jewish charity, and as such have many friends and colleagues within the community and know a little about the situation in both Israel as well as antisemitism in the UK. If any of my colleagues are on this thread then I'm going to out myself here and say that my daughter did her work experience with us and met holocaust survivors and made many friends.

If a 15 year old can look at these placards and see antisemitism, hear people at these marches saying "kill the Jews", "Hitler knew what to do with them" and recognise antisemitism, see Jewish homes and businesses being vandalised and compare it to Kristellnacht and say she's worried "it's all happening again" why the fuck are some people refusing to acknowledge this? Are they more stupid than a 15 year old?

I'm so glad my daughter did her work experience within the Jewish community. She heard first hand what happened last time during the holocaust. And she's seen the security measures in place now, well even before the current events. She's gone back to her school and questioned her own friends antisemitism, because now she sees it. It's always there bubbling below the surface with some of them as they hear from their parents how evil Israel is and by the same implication Jewish people in general.

Shame other people can't see things through the eyes of a 15 year old.

Yes

Twillow · 12/11/2023 23:15

Fallenangelofthenorth · 12/11/2023 22:54

The thread has moved on and includes video footage taken around the marches which includes 2 in particular that stick in my mind; one of a woman saying "kill all the Jews" and one of a man ranting and including the phrase "Hitler knew what to do with rhem".

This thread is very long now, but they are just two that stick in my mind.

Are you saying the poster is wrong to feel threatened? I'd feel threatened by that.

I didn't notice the length of the thread - oops. Genuinely asking the poster what it is about the wording on the placards on the opening post that makes her interpret it as a threat to murder her personally in England. Not saying she doesn't feel that way.
We need, above all, dialogue to understand each other here - the two countries involved are unlikely to have it for some considerable time ahead but individuals surely can?

Fallenangelofthenorth · 12/11/2023 23:25

Twillow · 12/11/2023 23:15

I didn't notice the length of the thread - oops. Genuinely asking the poster what it is about the wording on the placards on the opening post that makes her interpret it as a threat to murder her personally in England. Not saying she doesn't feel that way.
We need, above all, dialogue to understand each other here - the two countries involved are unlikely to have it for some considerable time ahead but individuals surely can?

Perhaps when she saw these placards she knew what was coming next? And she wasn't wrong was she? Because since the OP we've heard of a Jewish woman being stabbed in France, the 2 videos I mentioned above, a school in London having the words "Kill Jews" along with a swastika in the toilets, reports of multiple Jewish homes and businesses in the UK being graffited - with or without swastika, a Jewish primary school being daubed with paint, multiple videos of people (mainly women - WTF?) tearing down posters of the Jewish hostages, reports of people going into Jewish areas and intimidating and shouting out threats, and CST reporting something approaching a 2000% increase in antisemitic attacks.

Is that enough?

Twillow · 12/11/2023 23:26

SovietSpy · 12/11/2023 20:54

Apparently this was recorded yesterday. Woman demands to know if a fellow passenger on the bus is a Jew. Then attacks and intimidates passengers.

https://x.com/incmonocle/status/1723798996290884093?s=46&t=vOA85PMJFmuZ4ETKPS05GA

Edited

The women is an aggressive nutter to everyone on the bus. It's also notable that other passengers on the bus take action to protect the victim and call out the racism.

Twillow · 12/11/2023 23:31

Fallenangelofthenorth · 12/11/2023 23:25

Perhaps when she saw these placards she knew what was coming next? And she wasn't wrong was she? Because since the OP we've heard of a Jewish woman being stabbed in France, the 2 videos I mentioned above, a school in London having the words "Kill Jews" along with a swastika in the toilets, reports of multiple Jewish homes and businesses in the UK being graffited - with or without swastika, a Jewish primary school being daubed with paint, multiple videos of people (mainly women - WTF?) tearing down posters of the Jewish hostages, reports of people going into Jewish areas and intimidating and shouting out threats, and CST reporting something approaching a 2000% increase in antisemitic attacks.

Is that enough?

I'm sorry that Jews feel threatened. France has had a growing problem with this particularly, not just the last few weeks. Fringe, racist and stupid elements will unfortunately jump on any bandwagon they see. Just as the sickening behaviour towards Muslims after 9/11.
Antisemitism is wrong.
Obliterating Palestine is also wrong.
I do fear calling out antisemite placards is not the elephant in the room.

Fallenangelofthenorth · 12/11/2023 23:36

Twillow · 12/11/2023 23:26

The women is an aggressive nutter to everyone on the bus. It's also notable that other passengers on the bus take action to protect the victim and call out the racism.

Yes, she's an aggressive nutter on the bus, but she's referencing the situation in Israel and Palestine in abusing the Jewish passenger.

Are you really so thick that you cannot see others are also using this situation, and in particular the marches, to abuse Jewish people? There are many many references on this thread. Jewish people are stating that they feel threatened and worried for their children's safety. And you're minimising it and implying they are wrong to feel that.

Why is that?

Jupitersstorm · 12/11/2023 23:40

Rishi Sunak is now understandably fuming against the Palestinian marches and their fireworks, placards, standing on statues, etc. About time.
I mean people want to come down on Saturdays after a working week and enjoy the beautiful sights of the London illuminations after 4.15 pm (sunset) rather than having to stay away from these hundreds of thousands of people who are taking over the city every Saturday.
Enough - you've made your point. Now please London alone.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12740951/rishi-sunak-bolster-protest-laws-armistice-day-chaos-polie-power.html

Rishi Sunak wants to give police more power to ban marches

Pro-Palestine rallies yesterday were marred by anti-Semitic placards that mirrored those used in Nazi propaganda, while video emerged of an ugly brawl breaking out in Trafalgar Square.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12740951/rishi-sunak-bolster-protest-laws-armistice-day-chaos-polie-power.html

Fallenangelofthenorth · 12/11/2023 23:42

Jupitersstorm · 12/11/2023 23:40

Rishi Sunak is now understandably fuming against the Palestinian marches and their fireworks, placards, standing on statues, etc. About time.
I mean people want to come down on Saturdays after a working week and enjoy the beautiful sights of the London illuminations after 4.15 pm (sunset) rather than having to stay away from these hundreds of thousands of people who are taking over the city every Saturday.
Enough - you've made your point. Now please London alone.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12740951/rishi-sunak-bolster-protest-laws-armistice-day-chaos-polie-power.html

Yeah, well that's what this is really about isn't it?

Give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves. And that's pretty much what's happened isn't it?

Twillow · 12/11/2023 23:47

Fallenangelofthenorth · 12/11/2023 23:36

Yes, she's an aggressive nutter on the bus, but she's referencing the situation in Israel and Palestine in abusing the Jewish passenger.

Are you really so thick that you cannot see others are also using this situation, and in particular the marches, to abuse Jewish people? There are many many references on this thread. Jewish people are stating that they feel threatened and worried for their children's safety. And you're minimising it and implying they are wrong to feel that.

Why is that?

Yes I can see she's abusing the Jewish passenger.
She's the exact kind of person I referred to previously - someone who will jump on whatever the latest political bandwagon is to abuse people because she's hateful.
Yes I can see others are abusing this situation, it's what I already described. No need to call me thick.
Where did I say Jewish people were wrong to feel threatened?

And sadly it is my belief that this behaviour will increase as long as we are forced to watch indiscriminate slaughter with so very little censure by the majority of Jews. Hence elephant in the room.
So yes, antisemitic acts are awful and must be bringing a lot of fear to the Jewish population in our country. I don't minimise that. But a little deeper questioning as to why people's feelings, on both sides, are running so high without calling out inherent racism in every non-Jewish soul might be useful, no?.

structural · 12/11/2023 23:50

Twillow · 12/11/2023 23:47

Yes I can see she's abusing the Jewish passenger.
She's the exact kind of person I referred to previously - someone who will jump on whatever the latest political bandwagon is to abuse people because she's hateful.
Yes I can see others are abusing this situation, it's what I already described. No need to call me thick.
Where did I say Jewish people were wrong to feel threatened?

And sadly it is my belief that this behaviour will increase as long as we are forced to watch indiscriminate slaughter with so very little censure by the majority of Jews. Hence elephant in the room.
So yes, antisemitic acts are awful and must be bringing a lot of fear to the Jewish population in our country. I don't minimise that. But a little deeper questioning as to why people's feelings, on both sides, are running so high without calling out inherent racism in every non-Jewish soul might be useful, no?.

So you're blaming Jewish people for anti-Semitism?

Fallenangelofthenorth · 12/11/2023 23:58

Twillow · 12/11/2023 23:47

Yes I can see she's abusing the Jewish passenger.
She's the exact kind of person I referred to previously - someone who will jump on whatever the latest political bandwagon is to abuse people because she's hateful.
Yes I can see others are abusing this situation, it's what I already described. No need to call me thick.
Where did I say Jewish people were wrong to feel threatened?

And sadly it is my belief that this behaviour will increase as long as we are forced to watch indiscriminate slaughter with so very little censure by the majority of Jews. Hence elephant in the room.
So yes, antisemitic acts are awful and must be bringing a lot of fear to the Jewish population in our country. I don't minimise that. But a little deeper questioning as to why people's feelings, on both sides, are running so high without calling out inherent racism in every non-Jewish soul might be useful, no?.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have called you thick. That was uncalled for.

You are right, feelings are running very high, but shouldn't we be blaming the people causing these deaths rather than turning on each other? It's got nothing at all to do with Jewish people generally.

Twillow · 13/11/2023 00:00

Fallenangelofthenorth · 12/11/2023 23:42

Yeah, well that's what this is really about isn't it?

Give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves. And that's pretty much what's happened isn't it?

Not really though? The biggest ever protest march in this country, half a million people (I'm going between the highs and lows of 300,000 and 800,00). Given that number of marchers, the incidence of criminal behaviour was staggeringly low.
There were 126 arrests. 90 of these were the far-right counter-protestors.
But it's the marchers for peace people want to go on about, not Tommy Robinson and his band of racist hooligans. The Palestine protestors didn't make the slightest attempt to disrupt the cenotaph.
And if Braveman and the Daily Mail etc hadn't whipped up the media hysteria that they did I doubt they would even have turned up.

25milesfromhome · 13/11/2023 00:04

@Twillow you’ve previously stated that you think the actions of Netanyahu will turn Jews all over the world into pariahs, and that all Jews everywhere will be tarred with the actions of Israel. Now you’re on a thread about antisemitism saying that antisemitism is bound to increase because all Jews are held collectively responsible for the suffering of the Palestinians and if they don’t censure it according to your requirements it’s their own fault? There is an elephant in the room, but I’m not sure it is what you think it is…

Twillow · 13/11/2023 00:05

Fallenangelofthenorth · 12/11/2023 23:58

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have called you thick. That was uncalled for.

You are right, feelings are running very high, but shouldn't we be blaming the people causing these deaths rather than turning on each other? It's got nothing at all to do with Jewish people generally.

100%.
I would really love to hear more of how Jewish people feel (obviously all perspectives, not expecting everyone to see it in the same light!) about the situation in Gaza, present and past.

EsmaCannonball · 13/11/2023 00:09

Just seen footage of another 'Queers for Palestine' protest in New York, where a large crowd tore down posters of kidnapped Israeli children and surrounded a Jewish man, calling him a 'white supremacist.' Um, yeah, Jews are famously white supremacists. (That was sarcasm, in case you didn't get it.). I think we are getting to see the intersection of left-wingers for totalitarian theocracy and queers who aren't actually lesbian or gay. I say we swap the pretend gay people for the actually gay people who are desperate to get out of the Middle East.

Twillow · 13/11/2023 00:10

25milesfromhome · 13/11/2023 00:04

@Twillow you’ve previously stated that you think the actions of Netanyahu will turn Jews all over the world into pariahs, and that all Jews everywhere will be tarred with the actions of Israel. Now you’re on a thread about antisemitism saying that antisemitism is bound to increase because all Jews are held collectively responsible for the suffering of the Palestinians and if they don’t censure it according to your requirements it’s their own fault? There is an elephant in the room, but I’m not sure it is what you think it is…

I stand by that. It's coming true. I'm not saying it's right, you understand.
You are putting words in my mouth that I haven't said though. I definitely haven't said antisemitism is the Jew's own fault.

The elephant is not talking about Gaza, of course.

noblegiraffe · 13/11/2023 00:12

I'm not Jewish, but I've been mainly watching and occasionally commenting on these threads because I work for a Jewish charity, and as such have many friends and colleagues within the community

I'm not Jewish, I don't actually know any Jewish people, I don't think there are any Jewish kids at the school where I teach. My area is not very multicultural.

But, I visited Auschwitz when I was at uni and it was just awful. Indescribably awful.

Ages ago I also read Jon Ronson's Them: Adventures with Extremists. What was notable was how many of the extremist groups he spent time with had a problem with Jews. Up till reading that I'd figured that antisemitism was done, ended with the Holocaust when we all realised what had happened. But it was a right wing extremist problem. The New World Order conspiracy theorists.

Then came Corbyn. A Jewish political commentator whose opinion I really respect started talking about antisemitism in the Labour Party. Other people were saying it was a hatchet job by the right-wing press to smear him.

So I looked into it. I spent a half term on twitter reading Asa Winstanley stuff, Jewish Voice for Labour, all the 'antisemitic witch-hunt' stuff, things being said about Luciana Berger, by who, and what else they were saying more privately, looking at the things that Labour members were posting that were being reported and brushed off by the Labour Party. I looked at what Corbyn was doing, saying, who he was hanging out with. I read up a lot about the Left's problem with antisemitism and why it's an issue for even people who would consider themselves anti-racist.

I came away from that half term genuinely sickened. Depressed with the state of humanity. MN had a lot of antisemitic posters crawling out of the woodwork at the time too. I reported posts about conspiracy theories, holocaust denial and so on that seemed to inevitably crop up in any discussion about Jewish concerns with Labour.

Then it all died down a bit. During covid there were a few posters who were posting conspiracy theories about e.g. the vaccines being used to control people etc. A bit of digging and they meant the Jews. Of course.

And now this. I totally understand that there are many, many people with genuine concerns about the situation in Gaza, and rightly so. But it is also obvious that some are using it as an excuse to once again have a go at Jews.

And I get that the manifestations of antisemitism can sometimes be tricky to spot if you're not au fait with the tropes, because it is different to other forms of racism. But some of these are blatant and yet people are still denying it. Or arguing when it is pointed out by people who know better. Behaving differently to how they would if it were other forms of racism.

A rise in antisemitism is bad. They're kind of the canary in the coal mine. Divisions in society are being stoked (and not just against Jews, Muslims too, immigrants, anyone who can be othered). But history tells us when people tell us that they want to kill Jews, they really should be paid attention to and dealt with.

I've posted on a few of these threads. As I said, I'm not Jewish, I don't know if Jewish posters think I should stay in my lane, (please let me know if so) and what is going on in Gaza is horrific, but what is going on here and in other places around the world as a result in terms of antisemitism is really worrying and needs to be properly discussed without denial or shouting people's concerns down.

noblegiraffe · 13/11/2023 00:22

Twillow · 13/11/2023 00:05

100%.
I would really love to hear more of how Jewish people feel (obviously all perspectives, not expecting everyone to see it in the same light!) about the situation in Gaza, present and past.

Asking Jewish people who live in the UK about their opinions of the actions of Israel is generally considered to be antisemitic.

Trulywonderful · 13/11/2023 00:27

Twillow · 12/11/2023 23:47

Yes I can see she's abusing the Jewish passenger.
She's the exact kind of person I referred to previously - someone who will jump on whatever the latest political bandwagon is to abuse people because she's hateful.
Yes I can see others are abusing this situation, it's what I already described. No need to call me thick.
Where did I say Jewish people were wrong to feel threatened?

And sadly it is my belief that this behaviour will increase as long as we are forced to watch indiscriminate slaughter with so very little censure by the majority of Jews. Hence elephant in the room.
So yes, antisemitic acts are awful and must be bringing a lot of fear to the Jewish population in our country. I don't minimise that. But a little deeper questioning as to why people's feelings, on both sides, are running so high without calling out inherent racism in every non-Jewish soul might be useful, no?.

You have now just blamed Jewish people around the world for the antisemitism against them

You have blamed Jewish people around the world for deaths in Gaza

All in one post!

Seriously what on earth is wrong with you. Give your head a wobble and trot off. Jewish people in Britain for a start are not responsible for Jew hate against themselves. They are also nothing to do with what is happening in Gaza.

Do you blame Muslims for Islamophobia and do you demand British born Muslim call out the evil Iran regime or talk about what is happening in Afghanistan?

andmeandmeandme · 13/11/2023 00:30

@noblegiraffe Thank you for saying this, it's appreciated.

Twillow · 13/11/2023 00:31

noblegiraffe · 13/11/2023 00:22

Asking Jewish people who live in the UK about their opinions of the actions of Israel is generally considered to be antisemitic.

I wouldn't do it to a random person in the street, give me that credit! But on an anonymous forum? Maybe I've missed it but I really haven't read very much in this line on MN. Most people in the UK had an opinion, positive or negative, on the war in Iraq for example. Please forgive my ignorance, I'm not trying to be goady but I don't really understand why it's a big ask to expect a Jewish person to have an opinion on the actions of Israel.

Trulywonderful · 13/11/2023 00:34

Twillow · 13/11/2023 00:00

Not really though? The biggest ever protest march in this country, half a million people (I'm going between the highs and lows of 300,000 and 800,00). Given that number of marchers, the incidence of criminal behaviour was staggeringly low.
There were 126 arrests. 90 of these were the far-right counter-protestors.
But it's the marchers for peace people want to go on about, not Tommy Robinson and his band of racist hooligans. The Palestine protestors didn't make the slightest attempt to disrupt the cenotaph.
And if Braveman and the Daily Mail etc hadn't whipped up the media hysteria that they did I doubt they would even have turned up.

You are using the fact that the police have been standing back and not arresting people as a not many arrests case. We have all seen videos of large groups shouting Jew hate and the police doing sod all. Which is partly why various ops have started various threads. You know because people are annoyed that offenses are happening and arrests are not getting made

Fallenangelofthenorth · 13/11/2023 00:38

noblegiraffe · 13/11/2023 00:12

I'm not Jewish, but I've been mainly watching and occasionally commenting on these threads because I work for a Jewish charity, and as such have many friends and colleagues within the community

I'm not Jewish, I don't actually know any Jewish people, I don't think there are any Jewish kids at the school where I teach. My area is not very multicultural.

But, I visited Auschwitz when I was at uni and it was just awful. Indescribably awful.

Ages ago I also read Jon Ronson's Them: Adventures with Extremists. What was notable was how many of the extremist groups he spent time with had a problem with Jews. Up till reading that I'd figured that antisemitism was done, ended with the Holocaust when we all realised what had happened. But it was a right wing extremist problem. The New World Order conspiracy theorists.

Then came Corbyn. A Jewish political commentator whose opinion I really respect started talking about antisemitism in the Labour Party. Other people were saying it was a hatchet job by the right-wing press to smear him.

So I looked into it. I spent a half term on twitter reading Asa Winstanley stuff, Jewish Voice for Labour, all the 'antisemitic witch-hunt' stuff, things being said about Luciana Berger, by who, and what else they were saying more privately, looking at the things that Labour members were posting that were being reported and brushed off by the Labour Party. I looked at what Corbyn was doing, saying, who he was hanging out with. I read up a lot about the Left's problem with antisemitism and why it's an issue for even people who would consider themselves anti-racist.

I came away from that half term genuinely sickened. Depressed with the state of humanity. MN had a lot of antisemitic posters crawling out of the woodwork at the time too. I reported posts about conspiracy theories, holocaust denial and so on that seemed to inevitably crop up in any discussion about Jewish concerns with Labour.

Then it all died down a bit. During covid there were a few posters who were posting conspiracy theories about e.g. the vaccines being used to control people etc. A bit of digging and they meant the Jews. Of course.

And now this. I totally understand that there are many, many people with genuine concerns about the situation in Gaza, and rightly so. But it is also obvious that some are using it as an excuse to once again have a go at Jews.

And I get that the manifestations of antisemitism can sometimes be tricky to spot if you're not au fait with the tropes, because it is different to other forms of racism. But some of these are blatant and yet people are still denying it. Or arguing when it is pointed out by people who know better. Behaving differently to how they would if it were other forms of racism.

A rise in antisemitism is bad. They're kind of the canary in the coal mine. Divisions in society are being stoked (and not just against Jews, Muslims too, immigrants, anyone who can be othered). But history tells us when people tell us that they want to kill Jews, they really should be paid attention to and dealt with.

I've posted on a few of these threads. As I said, I'm not Jewish, I don't know if Jewish posters think I should stay in my lane, (please let me know if so) and what is going on in Gaza is horrific, but what is going on here and in other places around the world as a result in terms of antisemitism is really worrying and needs to be properly discussed without denial or shouting people's concerns down.

I can really resonate with what you're saying. When I first started working for the Jewish charity the first thing I had to learn during induction was security, even have "how to open post" training. Then over time I learned about all the various religious festivals, holy days and why we recognised specific days, most of which tied in to various times they were persecuted. I genuinely thought "well thank goodness those days are over, think you're going a bit overboard on the security but can understand why you're paranoid".

You only have to look at this thread to realise that no, they're not paranoid at all. They've been persecuted again, and again, and again. And "never forget" is clearly not a view shared by everyone. I'm absolutely sickened by it. The people I work with are just normal people, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, grandparents. They're not secret illuminati, they're not part of mossad, yes they generally have links with Israel due to the fact family members have fled there to feel safe, but they're not setting policy. They are just normal people who love their families like you and I.

I just cannot get my head around the fact this is happening again. Apparently everytime something happens in Israel the Jewish community in this country is attacked. I have Jewish colleagues who live in the area and send their kids to predominantly Jewish schools. PRIMARY schools have frequent bomb scares.

I feel so so sorry for them. It's no wonder when you see the hate worldwide that they are so protective over a Jewish "homeland".

Trulywonderful · 13/11/2023 00:38

EsmaCannonball · 13/11/2023 00:09

Just seen footage of another 'Queers for Palestine' protest in New York, where a large crowd tore down posters of kidnapped Israeli children and surrounded a Jewish man, calling him a 'white supremacist.' Um, yeah, Jews are famously white supremacists. (That was sarcasm, in case you didn't get it.). I think we are getting to see the intersection of left-wingers for totalitarian theocracy and queers who aren't actually lesbian or gay. I say we swap the pretend gay people for the actually gay people who are desperate to get out of the Middle East.

Sounds like a good plan

There will be a fair few Palestinian and other Arab gay people that are Israeli citizens too. If these idiot were to get their way and Israel was dismantled those Palestinians and other arabs would no longer be safe. So we will rehome them in a useful western idiot swap.

Are plan is set

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