Page 24 | Placards from antisemitic marches in London

FordAnglia · 07/11/2023 09:16

>>What I was taught at Sunday school was that 'humanity' (ie. the tendency in all of us to choose the wrong and unjust thing) killed Christ. Surely any other interpretation misses the whole point of the New Testament?

May have been what I was taught as well by the CofE (went to sunday school for a fair while until escaped) but the christ killer thing was prominent in some teachings. I well remember being on a historical wander round London with some folks - inside the big church in Spitalfields there's a plaque which amongst other things prays for the soul of the Jews. "oo that's nice someone said" - I told them it wasn't, knowing a bit of the orrible istory of religion/s.

B

MrTiddlesTheCat · 07/11/2023 09:23

FordAnglia · 07/11/2023 08:34

where did I say that?
The issue is clearly that on the basis of some signs in a crowd of 70,000 to 100,000 the marches, all the marches have been labelled anti-semitic.
Which is clearly tosh.
It does though expose the use of the charge "anti semitic" in order to stifle debate and examination of the issues.
As such I suppose it is perversely positive.
Though it does the cause of anti antisemitism and the interests of Jewish folk a severe disservice.

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They are labelled antisemitic because they are organised by supporters of terrorists whose stated aim is the obliteration of jewish people.

ganondoof · 07/11/2023 09:36

FordAnglia · 07/11/2023 08:34

where did I say that?
The issue is clearly that on the basis of some signs in a crowd of 70,000 to 100,000 the marches, all the marches have been labelled anti-semitic.
Which is clearly tosh.
It does though expose the use of the charge "anti semitic" in order to stifle debate and examination of the issues.
As such I suppose it is perversely positive.
Though it does the cause of anti antisemitism and the interests of Jewish folk a severe disservice.

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If a march features multiple anti-semetic placards then of course it's going to be "labelled" as anti-semetic.

backtowinter · 07/11/2023 09:43

mids2019 · 07/11/2023 06:58

I could understand to some extent the marches in Beirut but this is London and I think generally as an overall society there is a horror about the events of October 7th and a heart felt wish for the hostages to be released. Yes there is a humane desire to minimise civilian casualties in this conflict as in any other but the cause of this conflict was October 7th and it shouldn't be forgotten.

The current escalation of war between Gaza and Israel is not primarily about historical grievance but a needed reaction to the murderous brutality of Hamas whose leaders have admitted should be repeated.

It is not the time to start deflecting blame for October 7th or bringing in some sort of moral equivalence between the deliberate sickening murderous brutality of October 7th and the actions of a professional army who have aimed as far as possible to limit casualties. No member of the IDF has slaughtered babies or tortured women and children in a macabre demonstration of mediaeval barbarity..

Therefore a lot of the slogans in these marches are at best disingenuous and at worst anti semitic with refrains of Palestinian freedom being equated to the removal of Israel as a state.

Please let there be no march on remembrance dead so that we can remember and mourn our war dead respectfully as a nation. Please let's not insult the memory of those that died for our freedoms. The marches won't change British foreign policy and only act as a magnet for a small.number of extremists to forment hate.

👏

DevonWindyWeather · 07/11/2023 11:15

BlurredEdges · 30/10/2023 18:07

I had written this as a response to the other thread which was closed as it was overrun by antisemitic d**ks. As I'm sure this one will be too. They can't allow us to share the truth of what is being said and done in our own home towns and cities.

Look at these images. No, they are not in the minority or unusual. Here are just a few of many, many overtly antisemitic placards from Saturday's protest in London. (And a bonus one from 2021, which the lovely John McDonnell also spoke at.)

This is MY HOME. I am Jewish. My family fled pogroms in Eastern Europe and Nazis in Germany. Those family members who didn't flee were murdered for being Jews. And here we fucking are again. In London. And people defending it.

This is NOTHING TO DO WITH ISRAEL. These are Jew-haters, the faces of hate, the faces of anger and mockery, openly calling for Jews, for me, my family, my children, my parents, to be murdered, in my home city.

And people are defending it. How the fuck do you think we feel?

It is clear to see that there are anti semitic placards. Then some people in the marches have very extreme view and some others are also anti semitic.

The levels of tying themselves into knots, whataboutery or other contortions some go to to actually not see it is is frankly amazing.

@BlurredEdges I really do feel for how Jewish people have been and continue to be treated. It's awful.

jeffgoldblum · 07/11/2023 11:31

I'm not Jewish , if a Jewish person says something is antisemitic then I listen.
I'm not Muslim , if a Muslim person says something is Islamophobia then I listen.
I'm not a poc , if a poc says something is racist then I listen.
Apparently nowadays I'm in a minority!!
And why the hell are we excusing attacks on elderly poppy sellers now?
As far as I'm aware they aren't even Jewish anyway ( not that that should be an excuse!)
What have they to do with Palestinie ?

MrTiddlesTheCat · 07/11/2023 11:50

Last night's Newsnight has some pictures of placards from Saturday with swastikas and 'Kill More Jews' on them.

Carlalane · 07/11/2023 17:37

Anybody who denies anti semitism, in both those marches and out of them is deluded. There a lot of well meaning people shocked by the incessant attacks on Gaza. However, I am afraid a lot of those people are extremely naive in doubting the unequivocal chant, from the river to the Sea. To chant it is supporting terrorism. Tearing down hostages posters is supporting terrorism. That is supporting and promoting anti semitism. Jewish people need all the support they can get as the race that go either ignored or periodically oppressed.

Ecdysiast · 07/11/2023 18:33

Carlalane · 07/11/2023 17:37

Anybody who denies anti semitism, in both those marches and out of them is deluded. There a lot of well meaning people shocked by the incessant attacks on Gaza. However, I am afraid a lot of those people are extremely naive in doubting the unequivocal chant, from the river to the Sea. To chant it is supporting terrorism. Tearing down hostages posters is supporting terrorism. That is supporting and promoting anti semitism. Jewish people need all the support they can get as the race that go either ignored or periodically oppressed.

@Carlalane I don't know of you're aware, but the current far-right Israeli government and its Religious Zionist party leaders have open called for the complete elimination of the Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza Strip. This is something they have been openly advocating for since at least 2015.

Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich has said to Arab lawmakers in Israel that, "You're here by mistake, it's a mistake that Ben-Gurion didn't finish the job and didn't throw you out in 1948."

The Israeli government are openly calling for the complete elimination of the Palestinian people. However I haven't heard a word from this supposedly "anti-racist" thread condemning the racist right -wing rhetoric coming out of Israel. I guess statements like "death to Arabs" and "Palestinians don't exist" are perfectly acceptable and legitimate because they are not "anti-Jewish", right? Although they are anti-Semitic (because Arabs are Semites too) and racist and disgusting.
So yeah, keep banging on about Palestinian solidarity marches around the globe while Israel busies itself ethnically cleansing Palestinians "from the river to the sea".

Carlalane · 07/11/2023 19:11

Are we hearing death to the Arabs on the streets of London @Ecdysiast

Ecdysiast · 07/11/2023 19:12

@Carlalane We are witnessing their deaths in the thousands on TV from the comfort of our own homes.

Carlalane · 07/11/2023 19:16

Ecdysiast · 07/11/2023 19:12

@Carlalane We are witnessing their deaths in the thousands on TV from the comfort of our own homes.

That wasn't what I asked you. This thread is about anti semitism in London. Yet, you, as with others have come jumping in with whataboutery from Israel and Gaza. I don't know about you, but I find it troubling that my fellow citizens are being heckled and harassed and Jewish people being targeted for racism, in the UK. That's the UK as in London.

noblegiraffe · 07/11/2023 19:17

This is a thread about antisemitism which is why people are discussing antisemitism on it.

I'm not sure why you would assume 'Palestinians don't exist' must be considered acceptable by posters purely because it hasn't been discussed on a thread about antisemitism.

I'll quite happily condemn the racist right-wing rhetoric coming out of the Israeli government, along with their actions in Gaza. 🤷‍♀️

I came across some swastika graffiti at school today. Deeply depressing.

Carlalane · 07/11/2023 19:22

I'm not surprised it's found its way into schools @noblegiraffe, when it's been insidious in the Met. Very worrying times.

Ecdysiast · 07/11/2023 19:24

@Carlalane

Palestinian Arabs are Semites.
There are no "anti-Semitic marches" taking place in London.
There have been posts all over this thread about hates crimes that have happened outside of London (which no one objected to).
MumsNet has placed this thread under the heading 'Conflict in the Middle East'

MrTiddlesTheCat · 07/11/2023 19:26

Rewriting the definition of antisemitism to justify antisemitism is really pretty despicable.

Ecdysiast · 07/11/2023 19:27

Look it up @MrTiddlesTheCat I'm not making anything up.

Carlalane · 07/11/2023 19:29

Ecdysiast · 07/11/2023 19:24

@Carlalane

Palestinian Arabs are Semites.
There are no "anti-Semitic marches" taking place in London.
There have been posts all over this thread about hates crimes that have happened outside of London (which no one objected to).
MumsNet has placed this thread under the heading 'Conflict in the Middle East'

Edited

. Fireworks thrown at police
.elderly poppy sellers surrounded and
Intimidated
.2 navy guys, in uniform walking through London, with a Muslim mock spitting at him
.photos of hostages ripped down from buildings
.2 x advisors in the met police being investigated for antisemitism

You really are struggling to admit there are big problems aren't you?

MrTiddlesTheCat · 07/11/2023 19:30

2. There are no "anti-Semitic marches" taking place in London.

Apart from the ones organised by supporters of Hamas who don't believe Israel has the right to exist that had placards with antismetic tropes, calls to kill jews, and swastikas.

MrTiddlesTheCat · 07/11/2023 19:32

Ecdysiast · 07/11/2023 19:27

Look it up @MrTiddlesTheCat I'm not making anything up.

Yes you are. Antisemetism refers to hatred of jews as well you know. Other people may be semites but antisemetism doesn't refer to them. You're trying to use semantics to justify your antismetism.

Carlalane · 07/11/2023 19:32

MrTiddlesTheCat · 07/11/2023 19:30

2. There are no "anti-Semitic marches" taking place in London.

Apart from the ones organised by supporters of Hamas who don't believe Israel has the right to exist that had placards with antismetic tropes, calls to kill jews, and swastikas.

Edited

Unreal, it really is. Two Jewish ladies being advised by police to turn back home instead of going shopping. Children being heckled outside McDonalds, people being stopped to ask whether they support Israel or Palestine.
Thank heavens British armed forces will be on the streets of London on Sat and Sunday.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 07/11/2023 19:37

Palestinian Arabs are Semites.

The definition of anti Semitism, since you obviously need it.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/anti-Semitism

Placards from antisemitic marches in London

MrTiddlesTheCat · 07/11/2023 19:38

Carlalane · 07/11/2023 19:32

Unreal, it really is. Two Jewish ladies being advised by police to turn back home instead of going shopping. Children being heckled outside McDonalds, people being stopped to ask whether they support Israel or Palestine.
Thank heavens British armed forces will be on the streets of London on Sat and Sunday.

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Indeed. If a jewish man being murdered at a pro-palestinian march isn't enough to make people stop and think then I don't think anything will.

Ecdysiast · 07/11/2023 19:42

@MrTiddlesTheCat @Carlalane
I don't condone hate crimes in any form, against any group. The surge in hate crimes recently has coincided with the conflict in the Middle East, and it has not been only Jews who have been affected. The so-called "anti-Semitic " marches you keep referring to are Palestinian solidarity marches. So I don't think it's inappropriate to mention Israel's ongoing onslaught against the Palestinians in this thread. It's ok to condemn Hamas on this thread, because it's an extremist group. But Israel's current extremist right-wing government that is currently bombing Gaza into the stone age is off-limits? Such a double-standard.

Carlalane · 07/11/2023 19:47

Ecdysiast · 07/11/2023 19:42

@MrTiddlesTheCat @Carlalane
I don't condone hate crimes in any form, against any group. The surge in hate crimes recently has coincided with the conflict in the Middle East, and it has not been only Jews who have been affected. The so-called "anti-Semitic " marches you keep referring to are Palestinian solidarity marches. So I don't think it's inappropriate to mention Israel's ongoing onslaught against the Palestinians in this thread. It's ok to condemn Hamas on this thread, because it's an extremist group. But Israel's current extremist right-wing government that is currently bombing Gaza into the stone age is off-limits? Such a double-standard.

If they were pro Palestinian matches, they would be focusing on peace, not death. This is one reason why protesting on Armistice day is extremely disrespectful.