Scared to be Jewish

[WibbleWobbleFlop]

I am not pro-IDF or pro-Hamas, in fact I am very strongly against both. Netanyahu's government is an ultra-right wing aggressive shitshow and Hamas is an "elected" group of cowardly murdering terrorists. I am horrified for all Israeli and Palestinian civilians. I can't even begin to imagine how those poor innocent people of Gaza are carrying on, nor how the hostages and families are coping. I want nothing more than Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace side by side in a democratic two-state solution.

I am a secular Jew. I live in the UK. I am supposedly safe, as are my children.

But I don't feel like we will be safe much longer. Hamas wants the annihilation of all Jews, not just the destruction of the state of Israel. It's not about freeing Palestine to them. It is about eliminated an entire ethnicity. My ethnicity.

When Jews were targeted in the Holocaust, it didn't matter if they were religious, Orthodox, or secular. It didn't matter if they were in Poland or Germany or Russia. Jewish blood meant "evil".

Jewish ancestry is traceable. If Hamas gains further popularity in the Middle East (incredibly likely, given their links to Iran and Qatar), there is a real danger for literally every Jew in the world. I am seeing more and more Europeans and Americans leaning so far to the Palestinian side that they want Israel to stop being an accepted state. This gives so much more power to Hamas because any aid sent to Palestine is being spent on weapons and rockets being used against the Jews.

I'm sure I will be told I am overreacting. But I am scared. And I think I have every right to be.

I'm so sorry to hear this, @BlurredEdges . I'm sure that you will have taught her well, but it must be a worry. So much hatred, bigotry and love of death. It's terrifying. I've just been watching pictures of some young men climbing on statues and setting off flares in London. Faces completely covered in scarves. Intimidating.

Yes there are. I hope your dd is ok today and there are many posters here to support you both

WibbleWobleFlop I feel the same as you. Also a secular Jew, proud of my heritage and child of Nazi survivor. Now my Jewish family and friends are suffering the same anti Semitism as my mother did in 1930s Germany. Everyone knows where that led.
I was in central London on Saturday with non Jewish friends. The hatred towards Jews from pro Palestinian marchers was palpable and my friends felt as intimidated as much as I did.
What have British Jews done to make our fellow citizens hate us so much? #askingforafriend.

Much love and thanks @Maireas and @EasternStandard and I absolutely share your fears and feelings @sunshinesupermum

My daughter is very sensible, and has a group of really lovely friends from many different backgrounds, but I still hate that I have to feel this way, and that i don't feel she is as safe as a jew here as I was at her age.

She is 13, she shouldn't have to feel this terror. I'm not going into Central London at all at the moment

I wish I knew, @sunshinesupermum - but the intolerance, ignorance and sheer bigotry on these threads has been shocking. Believing slogans and memes over lived experience, perhaps? I have no idea, but it's profoundly depressing.
Some of the scenes in London have been alarming.

Thank you. As it happens I’m White British and have lived happily in the Middle East for decades and never once been the victim of a racist incident. But I have experienced racism in the Uk when visiting with my husband and family.

I always wear my Magen Dovid. It's unobtrusive but it is as much part of me as a Christian who wears a cross. I refuse to be cowed by Antisemites but I'm 75 years old, not a parent with young children. DD1 married out and although she doesn't live in a predominantly Jewish neighbourhood, she does worry about DGSs who are fully aware they are Jewish.

I appreciate your response. It's easy to get swept away posting and reposting content that isn't factual. It doesn't help anyone, not Muslims, not Jewish people, not anyone.

MN deleted your post, which claimed that Israelis are killing all children (or was it babies?) because it is not factual and it's inflammatory. It eggs people on to hate Jews by portraying them as monsters. This is particularly offensive when Hamas has actually committed monstrous acts only a few weeks ago. They didn't 'just' kill Jews by shooting or bombing them, which they also do regularly. They chose killing methods that extensively tortured their victims and resulted in the most painful (psychologically and physically) possible deaths. And yes, they did this to Jews including babies and children, this is a fact. It is not a fact that Israel are intentionally killing all Gazan babies and children. It is a fact that the situation for children in Gaza is dire and that children are dying as a result of the military action. This must be observed, recorded and communicated but not exaggerated. Many gazan children have died and are dying at the hand of Hamas who are using them as a means to an end. Indeed, their stated aim is to kill all Jews and destroy the nation of Israel to build an Islamic state.

If peace in the middle east is the desired outcome, it's vital to stay factual and critical. I am no supporter of the current Israeli government and many Israelis aren't either. We need the best of humanity to solve this problem not the worst. Emotive and inflammatory language contributes to more pain and more hate.

Thanks Maireas the fact that the police won't do anything to stop these marches of hate is most worrying. Apparently it's simply because they are too large! So these people can carry on shouting 'Death to the Jews* in the full knowledge no one will stop them.

I must conclude that most people don't know many Jews and hatred is easier if you don't know the individuals. There are roughly 250k Jews in UK, 150k live in North London (60%). 1 in 5 live in Barnet. 70% of Jewish children go to Jewish school and given the areas that many Jewish people prefer, the rest who don't go to Jewish school probably go to certain schools within a relatively small geographic area i.e. north london/altrincham etc. Jewish kids tend to go predominantly to Manchester Uni, Birmingham Uni, or the London Unis (so they can stay at home) with a small smattering of other unis as well as Oxbridge.

And then after they graduate, the observant Jews would gravitate towards jobs that allow them to keep shabbat which would be either Jewish businesses, civil service, the NHS or companies where there are other Jewish people (based in London or Manchester because thats where most Jews live). Or they may go self employed (like my MIL has) which is apparently much higher in the Jewish population than the local population. The non observant may not present as Jewish very obviously so people may not know that they are Jewish (I fall in this category and I have always been the only Jewish person wherever I work).

On this basis, they aren't like Muslims who are far more spread out and you are far more likely to meet one particularly if you live in a city.

Also our social circle is often other Jews. my DH isn't even religious and this is true for us. I don't know why, I honestly don't intend it to be this way but almost everyone I hang out with outside of work is Jewish (people I met through synagogue or friends that DH has had since he was a teen).

These threads are so boring. Full of unhinged posts screeching 'what about dead babies' 'what about islamophobia', many, many bot posts and a handful of sensible ones.
Charming. And are the people taking about deal Israelis children and antisemitism “unhinged” and “screeching” in your opinion?

But we are not allowed to share our fears or our experiences. There are a lot of beet vociferous, vicious antisemites who succeed in shutting down any thread where we try to support each other.
People like you are just as responsible for derailing threads like these. See a post that’s genuinely out of order? Report it. See a post that seems a bit irritating? ignore it. Don’t start a tit for tat slagging match that goes on for pages and pages.

💔
There are many of us who are seeing the situation exactly for what it is and who wholeheartedly support our Jewish communities. It is indeed a very vulnerable situation for Jewish people all over the world.

That's the thing, they are marches of hate. They're a threat to peace and stability and communal security. Yet they carry on.

I find the marches terrifying and the police do nothing.

Yet misgender someone and they’d be knocking on your door.

Look at what happened in Russia over the weekend. Hundreds of protesters stormed first a hotel and then an airport looking for Jews. The made people show them passports and documents to prove the were not Jews. 20 people are in hospital and some of them seriously injured

If the police won't stop protesters shouting hate and inciting violence then we are only a step away from something like this happened here.

@Trulywonderful - if you'd said that a few weeks ago, I'd have disbelieved you - but watching that mob in Dagestan last night makes me think, you're right.

And are the people taking about deal Israelis children and antisemitism “unhinged” and “screeching” in your opinion?
No.

People like you are just as responsible for derailing threads like these. See a post that’s genuinely out of order? Report it. See a post that seems a bit irritating? ignore it. Don’t start a tit for tat slagging match that goes on for pages and pages.
MN have deleted several bigoted posts on this thread alone that promote hatred of Jewish people. It takes a certain kind of bullying attitude to come onto a thread where a Jewish OP shares their fear about being the target of hate and violence and deny the OP's lived experience with a bucket load of whataboutery, victim blaming and silencing. Charming!

Ignore them and keep sharing your fears, because there IS support here (It's just a pity you need to wade through the hate to find the support)

Of course they are marches of hate. The first one started this time straight after the pogrom before Israel had responded ti the attack. They were literally still trying to fight Hamas out residential areas in Israel and stop them killing civilians at the time.

That first 48 hours of protesters marches was people cheering the pogrom, celebrating with fireworks and singing with joy in the street. Thousands of people around the world including London where they marched to trafalgar Square. Sick violence loving idiots.

Just don't get me started on what some social media and mumsnet users were posting in the first 48hrs!

So what are you suggesting be done? Ban all protests?

Because, realistically speaking, this would in itself be deeply concerning and a violation of rights! And, make no mistake: once you have this kind of thing happening, a precedent is set and nobody is safe from it happening to them in the future!

I will fully support you in any calls for anybody actually shouting "death to Jews" (or anything similarly clearly anti-semitic or even genocidal) to be prosecuted and brought to justice - but we absolutely must not undermine our own democracy, our own human rights (which include freedom of assembly) because some people dislike or feel personally uncomfortable with certain political opinions as long as it is merely that.

That, in a nutshell, is a pretty autoritarian demand and must be opposed!

I dint get you. anti-semitic is exclusively for jewish is n't it. So they are being anti-semtic with everyone else is it. Thanks.

Alright, @HeidiInTheBigCity - what if, after the initial strikes on Gaza there had been a victory march in central London, with people chanting death to Muslims, using offensive slogans and images on placards. Do you think that would have been acceptable, too?
That's a genuine question because in all honesty I would have banned that too

I'm not sure "personally uncomfortable with certain political opinions" adequately describes how I feel knowing protesters are carrying swastikas around but OK.