gaza tunnel system

[Noicant]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/28/us/politics/gazas-tunnels-israel-ground-war.html

I thought this was an interesting article about Gaza’s systems of tunnels which would help explain what the IDF are trying to get at.

@Parkingt111 is probably close to a long term situation with other countries stepping in and Israel completely closing off

And I appreciate it over the more unhelpful, what about responses that don’t attempt an answer

But I don’t think anyone should accept a committed terrorist organisation ready to do what they did on October 7th with the aims they have

I agree with @Parkingt111 (don't faint)

But I read Netanyahu said there’d be no ceasefire unless Hamas agreed to release all the hostages. Are they both saying the same thing?

It’s a mess.

Chicken and egg.
they don’t trust each other

@EasternStandard Israel rightly so wants to get rid of Hamas. Why? For the safety of their own citizens ofcourse
If the goal is to achieve safety then many will disagree it will achieve this in the way it has conducted this war

What if Hamas struck again?

As they have stated is their intention

Sort of
Israel is saying first release the hostages then we can perhaps discuss a ceasefire
Hamas is saying if we can agree on a ceasefire first then we will release the hostages
I hope I'm making sense

You and others may disagree but someone by now should have offered a viable way to get safety if it were possible

It hasn’t come up so far

On long term goals and management me too actually, it’s a fair assessment. How to achieve this though…it would require a seismic shift to get everyone to co-operate.

I nearly did lol

I think the Arab nations would have to play a greater part
Especially Qatar
It would have to be made clear that this is your one chance so don't mess it up
And the agreements would have to be fair on both sides

@Parkingt111 (and those who agree) if you were to implement your approach with Hamas still in place

What would you put the likelihood at for another attack?

BDS Hamas.

I don't profess to know the answer to that
But what I do believe Is that unfortunately the way things are going now may actually increase chances of a future attack
Will Israel be fully able to remove Hamas in this war? Not just the people but the ideology too?

I think anyone offering up solutions needs to be realistic about the intentions of Hamas

If they do not face up to the stated and evidenced extremism it’s not a viable offer

If ceasefire occurred, your plan put in place (which is fine without Hamas btw) and the following week or month another series of depraved acts, what then?

And also if the Palestinians especially those in Gaza have peace and a chance to make something of their lives
To travel the world like the rest of us and have goals and ambitions
To be able to move freely, it would greatly decrease the chances of them being radicalised by Hamas and other groups
They would have a future worth living
Infact I think more and more people would denounce them, try and stop them from future attacks as they know what hell it would lead to
But right now many were at a dead end
No prospects to look forward to and only a burning sense of revenge or as they see it justice

I don't think Israel can win this. How can they emilinate Hamas? Their leadership is in Qatar and there are probably thousands of new recruits in the making when they see the current tragic footage. On the other hand what can Isreal do? Allow Hamas to attack them again and take more hostages? There was a ceasefire in the Summer but that was broken by the Hamas attack so a ceasefire is only a temporary solution. It's an utterly, utterly dire situation.

Yes this is also a good aim

Still, think about what Hamas did, what their stated aim is, and how far they are willing to go to achieve it.

We are removed from terrorist thinking, which is terrifying and we are lucky, but don’t underestimate it

@EasternStandard I really do understand what you mean that on paper it sounds great but how viable is it really?
But surely death and destruction can't be the only option when there can be alternatives for a long term resolution

The other major issue is Hamas are not good governance for Palestinians, states won’t deal with them and funding / aid goes to their aims of destroying Israel

I think all that is listed is possible absolutely, but not with Hamas in place

I agree with that
Hamas would no longer be able to continue as the governing body
That's where the Arab nations again would have to come in

@EasternStandard I have written and rewritten my post a hundred times. I don't have the answer.
I have family in Israel I don't want Hamas to succeed.

Destroy the current people involved and Hamas 2.0 will just form unless the underlying reasons are tackled. Violence, poverty and desperation fuels extremism. There are other ways to weaken the Hamas that exist as well - like the funding through Qatar which has happened with Israeli knowledge.

But the problem is not just that Hamas are extremists, but the current Israeli government are also extremists who do not want a 2 state solution. It’s very hard to see peace right now.

I have no doubt that if a few of us were in charge we’d be able to sort it out! It really is men at the very end of the day: if the men were taken out of it, I couldn’t see women committing atrocities against children and everyone.

@EasternStandard I assume Israel will really hunker down and it will be super secure. Nothing coming in that way and no using Israel for goods, infrastructure, facilities.

Aka make it someone else's problem. Then the worst they can do it attempt to fire an ineffectual rocket over the top.