gaza tunnel system

[Noicant]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/28/us/politics/gazas-tunnels-israel-ground-war.html

I thought this was an interesting article about Gaza’s systems of tunnels which would help explain what the IDF are trying to get at.

From what I have read it's been said a few times that Hamas will not release hostages until a ceasefire is agreed upon. With the Implication that they do want a ceasefire

There's currently calls for a ceasefire by a group of protestors in Tel Aviv right now too

Surely you don’t want to see another October 7th either

In that case there will need to be a way to ensure it doesn’t happen again

It can’t just be there’s no answer

The US know that Israel do not want a ceasefire so instead are trying to push for humanitarian pauses
But this has also been rejected by Israel

The answer isn't what the IDF is doing.
As I said, if that's all Neyanyhau can come up with, he has somehow become even worse than I thought, and that is already lower than I thought humanly possible.
Surely you don't want to see yet more Palestinians killed either.

There just seems no solution but the death toll has to stop. Am thankful I’m a pacifist and an atheist - best way.

I haven’t seen any other suggestions from anywhere other than ceasefire. Which will allow Hamas to continue and repeat.

If it’s not obvious to everyone focussed on this issue currently it’s probably not obvious

That is nice and I wish we all were, but difficult with a committed terrorist organisation ready to repeat with no bounds to depraved acts

There needs to be a solution. This has been going on for years, and the current escalation is horrifying. The IDF can't be allowed to do whatever they want while the world looks on horrified. Realistically, world leaders need to step in and stop Netanyahu, which I am aware they won't do, but it's sickening that our PM and Biden and the like not only look on, but lend their support. I don't see either winning another election.

@EasternStandard there was a vote for a humanitarian truce, which is different to a full ceasefire
Although the majority voted yes, Israel voted no and said they reject it
These were the conditions

100% agree
The way this is continuing I don't see there being any winners,
I do also think the Arab countries should also be doing more aswell as the western governments
Not only during the war but after it too

Ok so how would this stop Hamas committing atrocities again?

Even if Israel was to catch every single member of Hamas they're not going to be able to stop another group from forming out of the survivors who have witnessed the killing of entire families. Babies and children with no heads. How can we forget the child whose face was bloodied and his legs torn off while he cried his last cries? How can we forget beautiful Youssef and his curly hair and bright smile?

The Palestinians only want to live. They've been suffering for 75 years. Hamas only exists because Israel won't let the Palestinians live in peace on their own land.

You have Jewish settlers taking homes by force. How is this OK?

This is genocide. It's not just about Hamas.

They accepted that because they were already in such a weakened position they basically didn't have much of a choice.

So the terms were not to evacuate? In other words make it impossible for Israel to achieve their military objectives?

@EasternStandard I was writing a reply but it seems that @Westcott313 has worded my sentiments
You say how will the ceasefire stop the attacks
I say how will the continuous destruction of Gaza and the continuous bombardment killing thousands of people stop any future attacks
Are we living in the now or should the governments be looking for a way that will better ensure a long term resolution

There are some serious objections raised asking a million people in a war zone to evacuate in the first place
And evacuate to where? Refugee camps or UN buildings that are still being hit anyway, where people are living in unsanitary conditions where disease is rife
Evacuate and live with their children and the elderly on the streets?
So yes
And a 120 countries voted Yes
14 voted No

The pp posted there’s no way to stop any attacks therefore it’s ok to allow the threat of Hamas to stay. Knowing their full intent to strike again.

I wouldn’t want that and can see why women and children in Israel don’t want to live with the threat of such depraved acts on the minds of committed terrorists. Men who exist to do the same no matter what.

The ‘better way of a long term resolution’ needs to be more than words, but something real. I’m yet to hear it given the sheer amount of people talking on this issue.

The better way would be to make an agreement on a fair two state solution
Have a ceasefire, release the hostages.
Get the Arab nations including Qatar to lay down the rules that the ceasefire must be abided by if the two state solution was to work
Lift the blockade
Get the nutty settlers off the west bank and dismantle the illegal settlements
And I'm sure there's other points that could be added too
Now I know you may disagree but as you asked for my thoughts this is what I see as a way forward

I appreciate you’ve answered my question, and none of this is an issue for me if Hamas did not exist, but it doesn’t solve the problem of Hamas, a committed terrorist organisation ready to strike again.

If you could put that in place without their existence great.

Since they do exist and have clearly stated their intention how would you stop another October 7th?

Hamas are extremists, and all that you’ve given might appease non extremists but that’s not who you are dealing with.

View any solution through the lens of a committed terrorist

The Israeli government have shown themselves to be political extremists. How do we ensure they won't commit atrocities on the scale we continue to see in Gaza, yet again?
One member has already said he wants to see a "bigger Nakba". How do we ensure they commit to any terms imposed as part of a ceasefire?

That’s still not a solution to the problem of what to do about Hamas

That all sounds good. I think that would be the best solution eventually, but sadly can't see it happening in the near future.

Or the IDF.

Yes, it definitely would be good, but would need support from world leaders to happen, I think.