gaza tunnel system

[Noicant]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/28/us/politics/gazas-tunnels-israel-ground-war.html

I thought this was an interesting article about Gaza’s systems of tunnels which would help explain what the IDF are trying to get at.

And to be clear @ProvincialLady1 I’m not saying you are making those arguments, I appreciate at least you have been able to express sympathy towards people in Gaza. I also feel great sympathy for families who lost loved ones or those who have been taken hostage.

@Desertrose2023 I agree with you but if you could come up with a better idea than ceasefire I would like to hear it. I am genuinely interested.
You asked me a specific question and I answered it. I don't feel Israel have a choice.

@Desertrose2023 your last paragraph when you were responding to @ProvincialLady1 I agree with but if you are going to demand Israel feed, water and fuel Gaza why are you not condemning Hamas for refusing to. They are their government. They get aid on their behalf. And I agree they couldn't shelter all of them but they could certainly shelter some or any in fact.

Whoever wrote that article is talking BS and it is in very poor taste.

It's a strap-line to entice readers - a bit like the Daily Fail.

This is the result of a nuclear bomb; there is no comparison to Gaza.

Warning - some distressing pictures

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/06/world/asia/hiroshima-nagasaki-japan-photos.html

It seems that last post is behind a pay-wall, so here are some more pictures.

Warning - distressing images.

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/hiroshima-day-atomic-bombing-nuclear-bomb-photos-nagasaki-japan-1984528-2022-08-06

Which really shows what a lie it is, that Israel are not trying to avoid civilian casualties. We'd be seeing exponentially more if that were truly the case.

What are you talking about ??

As I understood it- ProvincialLady1 is agreeing with you and saying that your post (blankyblank) also negates the often repeated lie that Israel is trying/intending to kill all the Palestinians in Gaza- because they have the destructive capacity to have done it already but they haven’t. Doesn’t justify what they have been doing, but hyperbole is unnecessary.

I missed an e there, @blankeyblank .

Yes, exactly. But also that withthe sheer amount of firepower, if it truly were a 'free for all' on Israel's part, would have already resulted in exponentially more casualties.

Which is not to minimise the suffering that is happening in Gaza at the moment or the number of people killed. Or to suggest you can't criticise Israel's actions, past or present. But I truly don't think the facts support the idea that civilians are being deliberately targetted, or that it's a free for all.

Also, I think it was reasonably obvious what I meant tbh.

Shaun king is hardly reliable.

The Israeli army has just bombed the entrance to a hospital. You cannot say with a straight face anymore that they are trying to avoid civilian casualties. It’s insulting at this point.

And @blankeyblank regarding nukes, no one is alleging Israel has actually dropped, or would drop a nuke. They wouldn’t do that given there are Israeli beach goers living life in Tel Aviv a few miles up the road from the starving Gazans. We don’t need to see pictures of Hiroshima to understand the difference FFS.

My point was that collectively over the past 4 weeks the sheer amount of explosives Israel has dropped is staggering. If you’d like to see pictures of the devastation that has caused, it’s available all over the internet. I could link pictures of the mangled bodies and dead children but the last time I did that I was told it was “disrespectful” (not sure to whom as I’m sure their parents, if alive, were probably more concerned their kids had been murdered than any possible disrespect).

What a joke - go and see the bloody footage yourself. It’s all over the news. Unless a Hollywood film crew has descended on the Gaza Strip and is filming a zombie horror movie then it’s real.

honestly the gaslighting on this thread is something else.

Since you’ve asked I’ll answer you, the only option is a ceasefire. The suffering in Gaza is incomprehensible at this point. I don’t care what you believe Israel is forced to do, the price that’s being inflicted on ordinary civilians is beyond the pale. God knows what the final body count will be and anyone who believes this is Israel’s only choice to ensure its security moving forward is deluded. Even if it wipes out every single Hamas operative in Gaza and annexes Gaza (which is likely the plan), it’s created a generation of people both in Palestine and globally who will be scarred by trauma and hell bent on revenge.

Longer term, Netanyahu and his right wing band of extremist ministers need to go. They are no better than Hamas at this point.

Israel has been careful and restrained. This is war. War always has innocent casualties as wel as the guilty. Hamas will never stop wanting to eradicate Israel entirely and Israel needs to make clear as it is now doing and as in the past that attempts to invade it and kill its people will be met by a show of strength.

So what happens if Israel unilaterally declares a ceasefire? We know from both experience & what Hamas have just said that they won't observe a ceasefire. So, please, walk us through it.

@Xenia is this careful and restrained

Happening now. a strong trigger warning

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzMA9CBNiuk?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D

Careful and restrained ? Thanks god for that! Cuz it looks nothing but that.

Oh come on! Some of the rhetoric against Israelis and Jewish people on here has made me feel physically fucking sick but you can hardly call Israel "restrained". The "this is war" hyperbole is just crass.

@Desertrose2023 you purposely ignore or distort or rewrite what others say. I can see why so many just ignore you. Best way probably.
Is there anyone left for you to converse with! Maybe stick with the Shaun King lot since that's a perfect echo chamber

I think probably ignore 🤔

Indeed, and this is the problem.
Difficult to negotiate a ceasefire when 1 side has said they won't observe it and will continue with stated aim. They really don't care about ordinary Palestinian people, only their aim.

Hopefully America with others can come up with some ideas. A 2 part state isn't going to happen.

It is no worse to look at than a motorway pile-up on the M6, something our Emergency Services have to deal with. Fortunately it isn't very often.

Remember the Hyde Park Bombings ?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/21/ira-bombs-london-parks-kill-eight-soldiers-1982

There's no doubt that ultimately external actors like the US and key Arab states will have to broker a negotiated settlement. Netanyahu and his ultra right colleagues have to go & Hamas absolutely have to be destroyed.

But I notice @desertrose2023 can't explain how a one-sided ceasefire will work.