gaza tunnel system

[Noicant]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/28/us/politics/gazas-tunnels-israel-ground-war.html

I thought this was an interesting article about Gaza’s systems of tunnels which would help explain what the IDF are trying to get at.

Referring to the dozens of times myself and pro-Palestinian posters have seen this false accusation used over the past few weeks on these threads by some posters to try and stifle debate. Frankly it’s disgusting to throw out the kind of slanderous statement @25milesfromhome made “she just desperately wants to fight with Jews on the internet”.

I have no idea who either of you are, nor what you believe. Nor do I care.

So it seems the only thing we can agree on is that continuing this conversation is pointless so please don’t engage with me any further as I’d rather not waste my energy on either of you.

you and your buddy directed your vitriol at me … as if we’re from some homogenous group… possibly some conspiratorial shadowy powerful lobby trying to… gasp, control the narrative and shut down debate. I just came here to talk about tunnels and terrorist financing options.

Err yeah, a homogenous group of 2 random posters who attacked me. Nice try though.

I don’t know you, so perhaps direct this paranoia at someone else.

Two posters from a homogenous group of people, you can't have a homogenous group of two people, don’t be silly.

@Desertrose2023
You keep going on about how many more Palestinians have been killed than Israelis. I agree, the number of casualties in Gaza is much higher than in Israel. I am not ok with how many families are being torn apart.

If we include all the attempted murders though from Hamas, I think you'll find it's not so imbalanced. How many rockets have they fired now this past month? These rockets aren't fireworks - their purpose is to kill and maim. The Iron Dome has saved thousands of lives. That's the only reason there aren't more dead Israelis. The only reason.

@Desertrose2023 why would Hamas put hostages under a refugee camp full of people? What did they think the direct result would be? By confirming they were there Hamas has confirmed they are using their people as human shields and build tunnels under camps.

@OhHelloTheres they will be along soon to say it's unfair that Israel has the dome, bomb shelters and military capability.
Completely negating the fact Hamas has had billions of aid and tunnels at its disposal and just doesn't care about the Gazan's enough to do the same.

Oh that has already been said today on this thread or another one, I can't remember which but it was said

Any ceasefire would only be on Israels side. This Hamas terrorist confirms that. People calling for a ceasefire will never get Hamas to agree to stop.

Evil.

I was being sarcastic but clearly you didn’t get that. move on, I won’t be engaging with you again.

Right, so when determining balance we’re comparing people who could have been potentially killed with those who actually have been killed? If that’s the logic you’re using to rationalize the disproportionately of Israel’s actions then God help us.

I’m not here to rationalize the actions or strategy of Hamas.
What I do know is that dropping 6 tonnes of explosive bombs on a refugee camp killing 500 people in order to get to 1 Hamas commander, isn’t what a country that cares about the lives of innocent civilians, including the lives of its own hostages, would do. It is barbaric.

https://www.understandingwar.org/

This is a good resource for understanding where everyone is. It also provides updates on Russia/Ukraine conflict. It’s completely neutral as a site. It does short updates on combatant movements etc.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/iran-update-november-1-2023

@Dinkydaisy1 "Here, our governments and media are actively promoting genocide,"

Will you just stop posting ignorant, emotional, inaccurate, rubbish?

No Western government is promoting 'genocide'.

https://www.voanews.com/a/analysts-divided-over-whether-hezbollah-will-wage-war-with-israel/7337145.html

Conflicting views on whether Hezbollah will engage Israel outright.

Exactly.

Honestly, I’m not shocked at most of what Hamas does but lack of shame around taking no responsibility for their own people was shocking. The complete disregard for their own people is just astounding and it’s said in such an offhand dismissive way.

They tax Gazans for god sake, they were elected by them yet they think the UN or Israel have more responsibility for the Gazan people than they do. Whats the point of putting out casualty figures if you don’t actually care about them. May as well shrug your shoulders and say “fuck knows how many died, we don’t really care anyway”.

It is psychopathic, you have to be a psychopath to be able to say this without squirming.

I think you need to get a reality check about war.

Anyone who tells you they can wage a war without civilian casualties is either naive, stupid or a liar.

The minute any regime/country/aggressor puts munitions, staff, leaders, operatives or any part of their War Machine covertly or visibly under/beside/above civilians, then that area becomes a legitimate military target.

And Israel didn't just kill 1 Hamas Commander, they destroyed a large section of the tunnel network (that's why the crater was so big, the whole lot just collapsed in on itself) and probably other parts of Hamas' infrastructure that they aren't revealing.

Do you really believe Israel chooses to drop bombs costing £1,00,000s just because they like seeing a firework display? These guided munitions are programmed to hit a target at particular co-ordinates based on intelligence.

It's easy to be an armchair critic.

UN Human Rights director resignation letter is a good read.

And you have to be able to say Israel is openly committing genocide without squirming.

And this is also a good read.

'Member States Fail to Adopt Amendment Condemning 7 October Terrorist Attacks by Hamas in Israel'

That is outrageous ^ and shows that the UN is no longer fit for purpose. Israel has every right to be aggrieved.

https://press.un.org/en/2023/ga12548.doc.htm

Yes, it's pretty shocking that someone who describes Israel as a 'European, ethno-nationalist settler colonial project' held a prominent position within the UN. It's good to bring these things into the light.

You're right, UN is not fit for purpose. It should have been able to stop Israels apartheid, Human rights violations, indiscriminate and illegal land grab and genocide ages ago.