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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

To think Israel won't exist much longer?

890 replies

sergeantsalt · 28/10/2023 07:56

Support in the west is declining, and when Israel doesn't have weapons and defense funding they won't be able to defend against their neighbouring countries on their own. AIBU to wonder how much longer it can exist given they are losing support?

OP posts:
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78
OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 10:00

Auvergne63 · 29/10/2023 09:48

Please post it. As I said before, I don't disbelieve that fact. Meanwhile, over 7000 Palestinians have been slaughtered and this will rise. This is ethnic cleansing. No ifs, no buts.

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https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cy21TN0NobP/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

It's a video on the IDF Instagram page if you'd rather not click on a link.

Edited to say sorry, I thought in your previous post that you said you didn't believe it, but actually you said you did 🙈

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cy21TN0NobP?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D

GlorianaCervixia · 29/10/2023 10:24

Auvergne63 · 29/10/2023 08:40

Israel has the 4th largest military capability in the world (thanks to the US mainly). We are told that they are using precision weapons (look at the footage of the bombs dropping; it's like day light) but, according to you, they need white phosphorous to see? They use it in the most densely populated region on earth. Do you know what this stuff does to flesh? It burns and carry on burning. You die in absolute agony. But Hamas....
Of course, the IDF are very considerate, warning 1,2 millions of civilians to get out. Where do they go? Gazza is very small. There is nowhere for them to go. What about the people in hospitals. the premature babies, the old and disabled? I would also like you to provide evidence of Hamas stopping the population going south ( I don't disbelieve it), I can provide evidence that the IDF have bombed them. and refugee camps ( well there is precedent for this). Yes but Hamas...
The Israeli government is now becoming what they despise and creating, by their actions, the next generation of Hamas terrorists. Violence begets violence.

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I'm not sure why you've said that "according to you" Israel needs white phosphorus to see. I never said that. I said there are legal uses for it, one of which is illumination, and that Israel has denied using white phosphorus munitions in Gaza.

If you want evidence of Hamas stopping the population going South, Israel has released a phone call with a Gazan civilian saying he was unable to get through a Hamas road block. They've also released footage of trucks parked across the main road out, with a long line of cars stopped from leaving. The US state department has also said that Hamas has prevented foreign nationals from moving through the border to Egypt.

The Times of Israel: "In audio published by the Israel Defense Forces Thursday, an IDF officer can be heard calling on a man to head toward Khan Younis in southern Gaza.The man replies that Hamas is placing roadblocks with cars, and “just sending people back home.”
The Gazan also says that Hamas members are shooting at Palestinians attempting to leave the area."

ABC News: "To date, at least, Hamas has blocked them from leaving, showing once again its total disregard for civilians of any kind who are stuck in Gaza," Secretary of State Antony Blinken said in a televised interview Sunday."

IDF: Gaza resident says Hamas preventing evacuations; thousands return north

Army intelligence officer speaks with Gazan, urging him to head to south of Palestinian enclave, but man says terror group is blocking roads

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-gaza-resident-says-hamas-preventing-evacuations-thousands-return-north

ChalkWitch · 29/10/2023 10:24

@SomeCatFromJapan Thank you for posting that. Articulates clearly the mish mash of thoughts I’ve experienced.

Eatapeach · 29/10/2023 10:33

No. Hamas begets violence.

Parkingt111 · 29/10/2023 10:43

@OhHelloTheres thank you for your post
It's too far back I can't find it
About the eggs

Parkingt111 · 29/10/2023 10:44

Another hospital told to evacuate
Where are they supposed to go? How are they supposed to move all the ill and to where? All the remaining functioning hospitals are full
This is heartbreaking

To think Israel won't exist much longer?
Parkingt111 · 29/10/2023 10:46

I have seen the families of the hostages protesting on the news
Absolutely heartbreaking 💔

ketchup07070 · 29/10/2023 11:26

@OhHelloTheres We have some unruly teens who throw eggs, amongst other annoying behaviour. I assure you nobody in our community is surrounding their houses and calling for death.

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 12:06

ketchup07070 · 29/10/2023 11:26

@OhHelloTheres We have some unruly teens who throw eggs, amongst other annoying behaviour. I assure you nobody in our community is surrounding their houses and calling for death.

I'm not saying chanting death to Arabs is acceptable. Of course it isn't! I'm explaining why, adding some context so others don't think it's just a random hateful act.

They threw eggs at those praying and played loud Arabic music to disrupt the religious service. It's disrespectful and provocative beyond belief, but people still shouldn't be calling for death to anyone.

I thought we'd established three weeks ago that context is important, everyone kept telling me it was anyway. "Please understand why the Palestinians are celebrating the slaughter of Israelis". So if context is important, I am just here to provide some for this despicable act.

And I can assure you if someone was throwing eggs at me, I'd expect the police to take them into custody. It's not ok for anyone to be throwing things at people, it cannot be allowed to be normalised. That's not even taking into account wether or not it's a hate crime.

ketchup07070 · 29/10/2023 12:15

@OhHelloTheres Expecting intervention from the police is a reasonable reaction. Resorting to violent threats and mobs is not a common response in any society, even with provocation. Normally, people consult with police and local authorities rather than taking the law into their own hands - that's how a level of tolerance and peace is maintained.

SomeCatFromJapan · 29/10/2023 12:19

I suspect things are a bit more fraught there just now than where you live, tbf.

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 12:21

ketchup07070 · 29/10/2023 12:15

@OhHelloTheres Expecting intervention from the police is a reasonable reaction. Resorting to violent threats and mobs is not a common response in any society, even with provocation. Normally, people consult with police and local authorities rather than taking the law into their own hands - that's how a level of tolerance and peace is maintained.

I assumed you were aware of heightened tensions in Israel at the moment?

Would you like me to explain how Israelis are living at the moment? Everyone in Israel knows someone closely affected by the massacre on 7th October. Everyone is essentially living in bomb shelters. My nephews went to nursery this morning but they were all sent home because their city was hit by yet another rocket from Gaza. They live in "Israel proper", nowhere near the border to any Palestinian territory. There are protests all over the country - some in support of the government, others against. They are being attacked from Gaza, Lebanon and the West Bank all at once.

As I said, heightened tensions. People are in a constant fight or flight mode.

They acted wrongly. I'm not afraid to admit that.

ketchup07070 · 29/10/2023 12:22

@SomeCatFromJapan Of course, but this kind of thing is not new. What is going on there that there is no trust in civilised processes of law and order?

ketchup07070 · 29/10/2023 12:27

@OhHelloTheres I do understand the heightened tensions, but I don't think this kind of event is anything new. I can't really understand how society arrived at this point - though as you say, there is discontent with government so maybe the population have distrusted their institutions to deal with issues for some time. Have there been any actions taken to deal with those chanting 'death to Arabs'? It would not be acceptable in my country and would probably result in prosecution.

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 12:30

ketchup07070 · 29/10/2023 12:27

@OhHelloTheres I do understand the heightened tensions, but I don't think this kind of event is anything new. I can't really understand how society arrived at this point - though as you say, there is discontent with government so maybe the population have distrusted their institutions to deal with issues for some time. Have there been any actions taken to deal with those chanting 'death to Arabs'? It would not be acceptable in my country and would probably result in prosecution.

No idea. I haven't been watching the news today. I assume you forgot to mention that you also hope those who threw eggs have also been dealt with? Mere oversight, right?

What makes you think this kind of event isn't anything new? Or is that just something you say to make it sound like you know what you're talking about?

Are you saying it's ok to provoke as long as you've not done anything illegal?

Gruntsandgroans · 29/10/2023 12:32

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 12:06

I'm not saying chanting death to Arabs is acceptable. Of course it isn't! I'm explaining why, adding some context so others don't think it's just a random hateful act.

They threw eggs at those praying and played loud Arabic music to disrupt the religious service. It's disrespectful and provocative beyond belief, but people still shouldn't be calling for death to anyone.

I thought we'd established three weeks ago that context is important, everyone kept telling me it was anyway. "Please understand why the Palestinians are celebrating the slaughter of Israelis". So if context is important, I am just here to provide some for this despicable act.

And I can assure you if someone was throwing eggs at me, I'd expect the police to take them into custody. It's not ok for anyone to be throwing things at people, it cannot be allowed to be normalised. That's not even taking into account wether or not it's a hate crime.

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OK but if context is important then you have to mention Israelis blocking mosques. You have to mention Israelis killing people in the West Bank. You have mention Israel killing 1000s and 1000s of people just across the wall. As you say, nothing happens in a vacuum.

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 12:36

Gruntsandgroans · 29/10/2023 12:32

OK but if context is important then you have to mention Israelis blocking mosques. You have to mention Israelis killing people in the West Bank. You have mention Israel killing 1000s and 1000s of people just across the wall. As you say, nothing happens in a vacuum.

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Not sure how any of that caused people in Israel to throw eggs at people though? Well, except for the blocking mosques thing. It's the first I'm hearing of it. I assume you're saying that's happened in Netanya as that's where the eggs were thrown. Which mosque is it so I can look it up?

If you're talking about al-Aqsa in Jerusalem that's an entirely different thing and has nothing to do with egg-throwing in Netanya. There's a lot more to it than you'd like to believe

Gruntsandgroans · 29/10/2023 12:43

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 12:36

Not sure how any of that caused people in Israel to throw eggs at people though? Well, except for the blocking mosques thing. It's the first I'm hearing of it. I assume you're saying that's happened in Netanya as that's where the eggs were thrown. Which mosque is it so I can look it up?

If you're talking about al-Aqsa in Jerusalem that's an entirely different thing and has nothing to do with egg-throwing in Netanya. There's a lot more to it than you'd like to believe

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Really? You don't think that Israelis killing 100s and 100s of Arabs every day has anything at all to do with why Arabs might be a little bit upset? Why would you think it all has to happen in the same place? Are you assuming Arabs don't know how to read or use the Internet? That they just aren't aware of how they are being persecuted and slaughtered by Israelis? How bizarre 🤔

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 12:47

Gruntsandgroans · 29/10/2023 12:43

Really? You don't think that Israelis killing 100s and 100s of Arabs every day has anything at all to do with why Arabs might be a little bit upset? Why would you think it all has to happen in the same place? Are you assuming Arabs don't know how to read or use the Internet? That they just aren't aware of how they are being persecuted and slaughtered by Israelis? How bizarre 🤔

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Oh right so I assumed context had to actually be relevant to the events in question. But apparently not. Ok so as I'm an Arab, Iraqi to be exact, and as my family were forced to leave and those who didn't manage to escape were hung in the town square for the crime of being Jewish, I assume I am now allowed to go out and kill any Iraqis I want? Or is it any Muslim I want? Please clarify as I'm very interested in how your mind works

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 12:55

Or maybe, we can accept that this was an isolated incident with people throwing eggs and then others overreacting in response. This all happened due to heightened tensions. And then we can just leave it at that instead of trying to justify it further?

ketchup07070 · 29/10/2023 12:56

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 12:30

No idea. I haven't been watching the news today. I assume you forgot to mention that you also hope those who threw eggs have also been dealt with? Mere oversight, right?

What makes you think this kind of event isn't anything new? Or is that just something you say to make it sound like you know what you're talking about?

Are you saying it's ok to provoke as long as you've not done anything illegal?

Show quote history

I think egg throwers should have been dealt with by the police. That is my entire point. Not by a civilian mob.
Here is an example of 'death to Arabs' chant, reported by Times of Israel in May this year. That is what I mean when I say this behaviour is not new,
At Jerusalem Flag March, chants of 'Death to Arabs' and assaults on Palestinians | The Times of Israel

At Jerusalem Flag March, chants of ‘Death to Arabs’ and assaults on Palestinians

Still, contentious event ends without major incident as thousands of religious nationalists participate; some attack Palestinians and reporters, sing 'May your village burn'

https://www.timesofisrael.com/at-jerusalem-flag-march-chants-of-death-to-arabs-and-assaults-on-palestinians/

Gruntsandgroans · 29/10/2023 13:04

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 12:47

Oh right so I assumed context had to actually be relevant to the events in question. But apparently not. Ok so as I'm an Arab, Iraqi to be exact, and as my family were forced to leave and those who didn't manage to escape were hung in the town square for the crime of being Jewish, I assume I am now allowed to go out and kill any Iraqis I want? Or is it any Muslim I want? Please clarify as I'm very interested in how your mind works

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They were throwing eggs? How are you getting killing out of that? Fecking hell. Why would your mind even go there? The bloodlust in some people is strong Confused

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 13:06

ketchup07070 · 29/10/2023 12:56

I think egg throwers should have been dealt with by the police. That is my entire point. Not by a civilian mob.
Here is an example of 'death to Arabs' chant, reported by Times of Israel in May this year. That is what I mean when I say this behaviour is not new,
At Jerusalem Flag March, chants of 'Death to Arabs' and assaults on Palestinians | The Times of Israel

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That's disgusting. Not sure why those rallies are allowed. I'm pro-Israel but these people do not speak for me. Absolutely revolting.

Very similar things are shouted by Palestinians and their supporters too but about Jews and Israelis. They're all as bad as each other.

The only reason I started speaking up for Israel is because I saw the disgusting comments people were making about those who had been murdered in cold blood by Hamas and those who had been kidnapped. Every single post put up asking if someone knew what had happened to their loved ones there were hundreds of laughing emojis. Every. Single. Post. The hatred is unreal. It's beyond disgusting. Both sides are at it and it's fucking despicable.