Hostages

[TakeMe2Insanity]

This is running on Al Jazeera and others - apparently Israel refused to take back two hostages.

https://english.alarabiya.net/amp/News/middle-east/2023/10/21/Hamas-says-intended-to-release-two-hostages-but-Israel-refused-to-receive-them

I know about PIJ because they have been mentioned before but not aware of other groups
And yes If there are different groups then it's possible that a) Hamas actually don't know how many hostages they have or b) they do know but don't know how many are alive and therefore need the ceasefire to be able to confirm

It's also possible that Biden and Netanyahu know alot more than they are saying, they have some of the best intelligence agencies in the world so it's very likely

@EasterIssland sorry meant next year

My concern about a ceasefire would be if there are lots of factions involved they would all need to agree.
I just don't see it either as I do think it would need significant movement on the hostages (imagine being the family of one left behind) and more people/ countries being involved in the aid front.
The cynic in me says... if the un has their way and a thousand tents go up in Gaza during a prolonged ceasefire Israel will be stuck with Hamas. If they make the position untenable then Egypt will be emotionally and probably financially blackmailed into taking the Gazan's. Hamas and others go too. Then hand back a barren wasteland to the PLO and make Israel an even tighter fortress.

They are my thoughts. Happy to be wrong

Another hostage that wasn’t a hostage but had died and only came to know about it now.

this is why I think nobody has got a clue where anyone is and how many really are hostages. And why hamas has said we’ve got some that we don’t know where they’re. They might look at the hostages website and think don’t think we’ve got that one , where are they? Not sure , god knows what is going on on their minds and what their real plan is

Is that recent? I thought he was a hostage too. He was part of the guard for the kibbutz. A father with two young girls.
Are they still identifying bodies do you think? Perhaps that's why things have slowed on the hostage front if we really don't know who is where...... :(

Yes
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblogentry/family-of-israeli-missing-since-oct-7-hamas-massacres-informed-that-he-was-killled/

also, as said before in my local news it was yesterday about another guy who was found dead at his house with his wife(he was in the news as he was from my country). They were both meant to be hostages but they died on the same day so I believe they’re still looking in Israel for people

@Stomacharmeleon if you are asking if there are bodies in Israel from the 7/10 massacres [and possibly the deceased hostages retrieved from n gaza] which are still being identified - then the answer is yes and can take some time to complete

So names will continue to move from the missing list to the deceased list until that forensic work is finished

As I've already said on a couple of threads the Rafah crossing is closed again because it was too dangerous to bring medical evacuees to the border - so no foreign passport holders out or ?humanitarian aid in

Really feel quite despairing as to how hostages can leave safely without some kind of ceasefire

@Efacsen I have said before but I think even if Hamas showed who was alive and well it would make a difference.

I haven't seen any updates regarding negotiation for hostage release today.
Nothing at all unfortunately

Some positive hostage news? Or more re-cycling of leaks/rumours?
I hope it's true

From the Guardian

''Reports are still emerging that senior Israeli officials are cautiously optimistic that a hostage deal has become likelier.

Reuters reports that Israel’s three major TV news channels, without citing named sources, said there was some progress toward a deal to free hostages held by Hamas in Gaza.

Netanyahu said he would not discuss details of any possible deal, which according to N12 News would involve 50 to 100 women, children and elderly being released in stages during a three to five day pause in fighting.

According to the reports by the channels, Israel would release women and minor Palestinian prisoners and consider letting fuel in to Gaza, while reserving the right to resume fighting.''

I have heard that too but the cynic in me wonders if it's to placate the protesters saying he isn't doing enough.
Fingers crossed....

Thought the same about heading off criticism after the huge demonstrations in Tel Aviv, last night

I think it's got to the stage where we will believe it when we see it
Also if they release the minors and women would it be to the west bank?
Surely they wouldn't be sending more children back to Gaza

Latest update and it's not positive
What an absolute mess
Why does it seem like hostages and the innocent children in the jails are at the bottom of the list of priorities
It almost seems like some sort of battle of the egos.

In even worse news

Hamas says it is suspending hostage negotiations because of Israel's handling of al-Shifa hospital

They truly are the bottom of the pile

I Don't know what to say.....

US and Israeli “best in the world” got caught asleep on the job.

A lot of questions need to be answered.

@EnoughIsay I am sure they will be when the hostages are returned....

I find all of that hard to believe.

all Biden has to do is cut the $3 billion per annum stipend that the USA donates to Israel.

But Biden has an election coming up.

Does Israel want it’s citizens back?

seems to me they are willing to lose them.

@EnoughIsay I don't think Biden motives would generally be for the welfare of the hostages, I think that would be secondary. Primary is how it will position him for the next elections. But regardless of that the hostages are innocent, and should not be treated as pawns in a political game

In a decent world - yes.

Another Israeli believed to have been held hostage has now just been identified as dead after all. She was a well known peace activist.

https://www.womenwagepeace.org.il/en/vivian-silver-a-peace-activist-is-missing/

Oh it wants them back but history tells world leaders you don't negotiate fully over hostages. It rarely ends well long-term. Look at when the Palestinians kidnapped Israelis at the Munich Olympics for a start. Lots of negotiating but they still killed hostages.

Plus it is generally seen as more dangerous to give in to terrorist demands over hostages. If you do then long term you indanger more civilians. The terrorists learn they can get what they want by taking innocent people. Therefore this is played out again and again. Countries and states learned the hard way years ago to protect people by not giving in to easily or not at all.

Finally it has been very clear from the start that the hostages come second to try to weaken Hamas or whatever they call themselves next. At least weaken them for several years. N has said the current situation can't go on any longer. Meaning I believe Israel is no longer willing to take daily attacks or weekly rockets fired at them. Therefore they have committed with the nod from many of the surrounding states to weakening Hamas as much as possible. Most the surrounding states find Hamas as impossible to live near as Israel.