To think Hamas have given Israel the excuse they were looking for?

[MistyMooPup]

Not all of Israel. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said he will obliterate Hamas. But undoubtedly hundred if not thousands of civilians will now be killed.

I’m not sure what Hamas thought the end game if this would be? What have the Iranians convinced them of? This was a sophisticated operation, outside help was given for definite.

I’m not sure it’s possible to rationalise with dehumanised terrorists, neither am I sure what the end game will be, but I just can’t understand what Hamas expected if not a total war/strikes from Israel in retaliation.

@Wonkasworld - I am old enough to remember that similar arguments about communists during Thatcher's time.

My view is that Israel should be strongly supported by the U.K. as a key ally. It already is. I don't believe that multiculturalism quite covers pro Palestine protest. It's a political protest which highlights a problem the U.K. has developed. Left right politics is normal in a democracy. It's actually necessary.

What I am fearful about is religion in public life, as a driver of public policy. The UK's take on a multicultural society (since it has one) is that religion and religious politics is not part of public life. It is private. End. This country has fought its own wars on Christianity to that end. We know the futility of that for ourselves. I don't want it imported into the U.K. Freedom from religion is more important than freedom of religion in public life.

There are a lot of people playing this as Muslim v Jew. They will not say it. But they mean exactly that.

Well this thread has certainly taken a turn by landing on Nigel Garage’s views on immigration. When people on here are arguing that allowing people into Britain who hold homophobic, sexist and over the top religious views will ruin Britain, who are they actually referring to? Every religion has its own extremists including Christians who’ve done a pretty good job of destroying women’s rights in America in recent times. So where do we draw the line? Who qualifies to enter? Or does nobody? Is being a slightly religious Muslim from Pakistan less favourable than a deeply religious Christian from Poland say?

I don't believe anybody has said any of those things.

Moreover, what has that got to do with this thread?

What a load of nasty xenophobic crap on here today. I hope it's deleted.

Report it then. You will be reporting thin air.

I was referring to this. And if my post was confusing, I was saying that I am most definitely not in support of his views on immigration. AT ALL.

I personally would welcome Palestinian refugees as we have welcomed Ukrainians.

We all would so what's your point?

My point was in relation to those talking about the damage done by importing ‘vast numbers of antisemites’. I was querying who exactly they were referring to as this imported group and challenging the idea (clearly supported by Nigel Farage) that we should not allow refugees from Gaza into Britain.

If you didn’t disagree with this point then my post was not aimed at you.

Again, I haven't seen that conversation you're talking about. I don't even know how Farage is relevant to this conflict.

As people were talking about the protest in London earlier, I was speaking to someone who attended yesterday and he has been to many palestinian protests over the years. He said this was by far the biggest one he has every attended.
Another point he said was he spoke to many many people there and the majority said they were not Muslim. They all agreed the attacks by Hamas were wrong. But every single one felt the response by Israel by collective punishment and sealing aid was atrocious.

We don't doubt it. I've been talking about the pointlessness of tit for tat, so no need to counteract those collective opinions for those of pro Israel. That would be minimising the bigger picture.

Genuine question - do people see the demonstrations as a whole as antisemitism? Is it antisemetic to oppose Israel’s position?

You will have to wait for others to answer. Your whole stance is akin to a 15 year old deciding if the want to study politics or not.

I wasn't trying to do tit for tat
Just that many people think that it's a Jewish vs Muslim issue when it's actually not

Well that’s unnecessarily offensive and rude…

If trying to understand the thinking of others is immature then let’s all stick with our own rigid grown up methods of debate where we give our own opinions without considering the thoughts of others.

As someone who disagrees with the bombing of Gaza I would consider attending a protest but would want the consider the implications.

I have a Jewish friend who was in Central London yesterday with her daughter and she said that she felt incredibly threatened by the protesters. Jewish people in this country are now frightened of reprisal and are still coming to terms with the appalling atrocities committed by Hamas.

I have a Jewish friend at work who feels equally at risk.

I guess I just find it challenging that it feels as though openly disagreeing with the response from Israel is seen as being antisemetic or minimising the barbarity of Hamas.

I arrived back home in London yesterday late afternoon after being trapped elsewhere by the storms. Arrived into the mainline station with a bunch of the 'protestors' and after 2 stops on the tube, I had to get out and take a cab that I really couldn't afford.

I'm Jewish and it was truly, deeply terrifying. Never ever had to do that before. I felt under huge,, real immediate threat

Luckily I found a cab with a driver who was a Turkish Muslim and was just as disgusted and horrified by Hamas as any other decent person. We had a nice chat going home. It was an awful experience though.

Bullshit

Please clarify which part you disagree with?

This part:

They all agreed the attacks by Hamas were wrong.

I had the misfortune of having to get through a huge group of these 'protestors' yesterday and went 2 stops on the tube with them

I'm sure you must realise pro palestine is not the same as pro Hamas
Why would you find the protest disgusting? It's in solidarity with the Palestinian people
There has been many pro Israel demos all across the globe too in solidarity with the Israeli people

By all I was referring to the people my friend spoke too