Ditherers Anonymous - Is there ever a right time?

[confuseddoiordonti]

A continuation from the previous two threads we have filled going round in circles about whether to have a baby, or whether never to have a baby... All insights and new recruits welcome!

(and those of you now with BFP's - don't you go sloping off leaving us for more decisive types!)

Definitions courtesy of Dr Honeypetal Sparklepants.

Dither: vb. def. The act of procrastination and delaying of coming to a decision regarding reproduction due to an attachment to lie-ins, working bowels and cheap holidays in term time.

Ditherer: n. def. One who is in a permanent state of flux regarding whether to procreate or not (see def. of babyometer). On the flick of a coin, may ultimately not reproduce, or bear triplets. Whatever. pl. A confusion of ditherers.

Babyometer: def. Semi-quantitative scale upon which an individuals current extent of dithering (i.e. desire to conceive) is measured, commonly red, amber or green, although reddy-amber, greeny-amber and reddy-ambery-green have been described (see def. Dithering). Caution is required during interpretation as measurement may change hourly.

Oh god, they are GORGEOUS!!!

Thank you.

Am avoiding nurse at the moment as meant to go for the 'diabetic review' but, frankly, I know I am fine and have had recent-ish tests anyway when I went to the pre-conception clinic () so can't be arsed. Last time I avoided it though she called and left a message saying they can't keep prescribing insulin without seeing me (not sure how true this is.) She's pleasant-ish (got a bit pissed off with being repeatedly called vain the last time I saw her though) but rubbish. I know more than she does. Fact!

Hmm, I remember the pre-conception clinic....wasn't that Stage 1?

I'd better go to bed. Another lame great day at work to get up for!

It was stage 2, or stage 1b - I had to see the specialist nurse first who then referred me to the consulant.

Am meant to be in bed too but can't switch off at the moment - my head's full!

It's pretty funny that after nearly a year we can both put a tick next to Stage 1! Although, I'm not sure we came up with a Stage 2....ah well, you can't rush these things.

Blimey, it is nearly a year isn't it? And we are still no nearer - ho hum...

Even as I type here I feel like a fraud.

I am 26 married a couple of years and took my last pill this morning (agghhhh).

But I know none of the abbreviations on here and still feel like I did when I was 16 and that passing a boy on the stairs makes you pregnant AND wonder if I can't fall pregnant AND can't help but feel that being pregnant is like housing an alien!

Don't think badly of me - I also love children and work with them. This is such a massive thing! Am I normal?

Hi CuriousElle, I think you are indeed normal!

I am in no position to judge what is normal. I suspect normal isnt anything I have done over the last year (see pill-clutching, night-hyperventilating, over-analysing posts of previous 12 months)!

I have Too Much Work to do. Why am I on here, I hear you ask? Because clearly, I do not wish to do any of it!

Thank You confuseddoidonti any honeypetal.
I have a small family with no babies in my adult life time and my close friends have not had children yet so I feel like I am stepping until uncharted territory, its nice to hear others chat!

Am currently dithering whether or not to have a 2nd baby.

My brain says, life is so easy at the mo (newsflash - life with one is not that hard... ducks from nesayers ), why bother with all that again. Hormones cry out for another tiny baby. And I dont even like children that much.

Just think of it this way - the sooner you have them the sooner they go to fulltime school

Am now going to go back to dithering over this 2nd...

I am RED

Oh dear. Poor thing. Must be awful, and she obviously feels so stressed and upset about the problems. I hope she finds a way forward.

I think its safe to say that having a family is more than the first few months of cuteness and tiny clothes.

BTW, I am loving this approach from mrswill...'Just think of it this way - the sooner you have them the sooner they go to fulltime school'. Now thats the kind of thinking we need on this thread!

It is precisely that kind of thing on these threads that puts me off the whole idea!

Bonkers.

Bloody Mother Nature...

Sod Mother Nature.

The last few weeks of feeling a little bit 'out of control' in the hormone department have put me right off. I like being in control. I am also really mulling over the life we could have without the massive financial impact of childcare and the committment of school days/bedtimes/etc. It all just seems too hard. I'd love to go back five years when I didn't have to think about this all the flaming time!

A girl at work was sighing today about being 24 and, apparently, old. WTF?

I think there comes a point for everyone between the ages of twenty and thirty when you realise how stupid and annoying you sound complaining about being "old" when you're blatantly still in the full flush of youth - and then you stop saying it!

Hello all,

Wow, have just read through all the posts I've missed.

Firstly, really sorry that some of you are having a rubbish time. You sound really down, hp. It does sound like progress is being made in getting to the bottom of the health stuff, which is good, but the hormonal symptoms sound not at all fun. Really hope things get a bit easier on that score soon - and work improves.

Really really sorry about S's setback, confused. How horrible. It's just a very very hard time for all involved. I'm sure he'll pull out some reserves of energy for the party - the unpredictability of it all is just shitty though. Hang in there - hug from me too. And sorry too about the house disappointment - not what you need. I think you should take heart from the fact that it hasn't been on that long, and you have had a lot of interest (even if it's from stupid flaky people...) so it is just a matter of time, and it's a great property. But no help right now, I know. On a cheerier note (possibly?!) that's hilarious about DH being broody - and good news in the sense that at least it will be a shared thing if you do go ahead sometime. I would have found the whole thing a lot easier to contemplate with DH on board (mine is getting there, now, thank goodness but it's still going to be an uphill struggle I think!).

Sounds like some of the recent joiners are feeling very similarly to us (even if I am partially excluded from this 'us' now, perhaps). The career vs. baby thing - or at least baby = compromised career - is indeed a real bugger, frakkit. I was having a career crisis before I got pregnant so in a way it's only a catalyst for big decisions. But I'm really scared now of leaving my safe job (which I'll probably have to do anyway as it is way too far away from where I live to contemplate with a baby (let alone two!)) and be floating with no identity except 'mum', which by all accounts is a pretty thankless one in terms of your public role at least (and to some extent in the family too...). I like the sound of what you do, Quodlibet (sounds creative?!) - but also sounds v tough to be self-employed. The best thing about my current job (academic) is the flexibility, so I think I may be mad to be contemplating giving that up for something potentially more rigid.

I think I can echo others in saying I am sure you won't be a crap mother, Having - the fact you're worried makes that unlikely in itself. I am worried about some aspects - I am horribly disorganized, which doesn't have too much of an impact on my current life but will have to change big time with kid(s). I don't think I'm always very patient. I have few of the skills such as being able to draw, do craft, braid hair, sing in tune, bake, etc. that seem helpful, and don't imagine I will have much appetite for 'imaginative play'! But I have some sort of residual trust that if one is loving and works hard at it it will be ok!

What I'm feeling at the moment, for what it's worth, is that there is some comfort in the feeling that things are now decided, at least for now (and all being well). Whatever happens now is up to my body, not me. I still have to make some huge decisions about career (what's left of it) but at least one biggie is out of the way (if it works out, obviously). On the other hand, my sister was describing the utter panic at times when you have a new baby and you realize there is NO GOING BACK, and life is going to be HARD WORK and little other than hard work for the next x years (and in the short term being woken up every two-three hours for months...). Pause for thought!

And as for confused's red thread - OMG! I somehow always gloss over the issue of discipline and the long years of having to keep order with kids below the age of reason. Getting through infancy always seems like the hardest thing - but perhaps not. Gulp. Another thing (like birth) not to think about...

Anyway, sorry to those I haven't mentioned but this is turning into War and Peace so better go and do something semi-useful! Really hope the weather is lifting people's spirits a bit.

Oh, also meant to say - broodiness update, Suerock?!

Can I join in too? I'm a great ditherer. Today (because DH is away this week and it's half term so I'm ignoring work) I WANT A BABY NOW! On Monday I will be back at work and wondering if it would really be worth stopping at this point as if I hang on a couple of years surely it'll be better work-wise right?
I've been going on like this for at least a year, promising myself that when I finish my MA course in September that we'll start then. But that's three months away, which seems simultaneously far too long to wait AND much too soon to start!
Can definitely sympathise with Elle, especially about feeling a fraud. I came off the pill in February "just to see what would happen" (ie would periods come back after 12 years on the pill), convinced (terrified) myself that I was pregnant immediately, that was a false alarm, then have been disappointed each month that I'm not pregnant, despite taking measures to ensure I'm not!

Is that dither-y enough to join in?

Eskarina you are the definition of Dithery, welcome!

Lovely to hear from you, LST. How are you feeling physically? I am delighted to hear that your DH is starting to come round, albeit slowly, that's excellent news. Long may it continue!

Gals (oh dear, can't believe I just wrote that) I might need to brain dump - sorry to those who may not be able to make much sense of this.

S, on Wednesday, had 7.5 liters of fluid drained from him. This does not bode well, and since the chemo stopped working he has had signs all over his body that it's spreading fast. He has more in his liver, an enlarged spleen, 'seeds' in his stomach and so on. So, he was meant to start a new type of chemo which would be every three weeks (it has now been changed to a kind he has every three weeks, which is what he had before.) He has been in quite a lot of pain in his back due to the tumours in his liver (something to do with the nerves) and has been quite down - hardly suprising.

This is, obviously, horrid - even more horrid than it was before. I think the reason I am brain dumping here is because my (frigging) DH seems more interested in his tax return than S. I told him, via email, about the 7.5 litres etc and he didn't even respond to it. I keep telling myself what the wise YTD said, that it is my grief and not his, but surely it's not too much to expect a bit of support? Or even interest...?

Me and DH are struggling financially at the moment and I know this is on DH's mind, but what is happening with S puts it into perspective - the worst case is that we loose the house in Hebden and can't sell this for a while longer (we're not behind on mortgage payments or anything) and while that would be crap, it won't kill us. (Pun intended.)

Add to this his werid family and their constant 'fretting' (trust me this word is perfect) about EVERYTHING. And DH can be like this too (it's deeply unattractive, trust me!) His brother spoke to him the other day - he had been having problems sleeping, was worried about work (for no major reason though, he has plenty of it and a good reputation - he's a freelance model maker and does things like the Christmas displays in Fortnum and Mason) and wanted to come and 'get away from it.' He has enough cash, a BEAUTIFUL house, a great relationship with his wife and so on SO WHAT'S THE BLOODY PROBLEM?

DH was saying (perhaps not to his brother though) that it's all inherited and all three of his brothers are like it, as well as himself. It's so fucking wet it's ridiculous.

So, in short, I am pissed off with DH for being crap about things with S but instead spending large amounts of energy on pointless fussing and worrying, while also failing to see things in a real persepctive.

Interestingly, we have two friends (well, more my friends) coming this afternoon who are VERY close to S. S was their best man, they see him constantly, he is the godfather to one of their children etc. We shall no doubt be talking a lot about that and I am curious to see what DH adds. (I honestly don't think he realises, but wonder if this will make him see a bit more clearly and prove his theory about me being so upset because others are also upset on Facebook as ridiculous as it is.

Me again. Friends been and gone. Was lovely to see them but they were also bearing bad news.

S went home after the new chemo on Thursday feeling good due to the steroids only to wake up several hours later in debilitating pain and vomiting blood. He was blue lighted to hospital and is now relatively stabilised and waiting for tests. It is presumed that it may be ulcers caused by the chemo / tumours or his stomach lining may have ripped.

D - the male one out of the couple who visited - said he is not entirely convinced S will make it till September. S went from being almost normal due to the chemo working well with next to no nasty side effects to looking like someone who is extremely ill in a matter of weeks.

A friend of ours who is a consultant surgeon explained that sometimes a major organ can pack up and, if it wasn't due to the pressure the patients body was under anyway, it would be treatable but in S's case this may not be possible. Although, this is hypothetical it's not massively unlikely either.

I am typing this sat in a bar down the road as I needed to get away from DH. I feel as if he cannot empathise properly and, to a vague extent, I can kind of understand it. I have even got my mum (without realising) quoting YTD's wise words when she said that it is my grief and not his now, and it's very true. He cannot understand I realise this, but I cannot help feeling resentful about this - I am angry that he didn't even mention the message I sent him about the 7.5 litres of fluid being drained from S, and I was also not impressed with him looking at recent posts from S, which I handed him to read, and not commenting or even saying anything.

There are some very good friends of ours who, incidently, have been an amazing support had a BBQ last night. DH stayed in talking to the husband and I suspect DH was telling him things were weird between us. I think DH resents me not being as interested or supportive about our cash etc (my mind, understandably, is elsewhere) and I was talking to the wife about how I am in bits about S and pissed off with everything else too. I think I might have a word with the hubby and ask him if he could have a word with my DH. I feel too volatile and too fragile. I think DH's very good friend may be able to help smooth things over far better than I would at the moment - communication has never been one of my strong points. Unfortunately they have parents over today so I won't contact him and ask tonight.

For newcomers, sorry to write lengthy and miserable posts about irrelevant subjects. The long time regulars on here have been an incredible source of support in the past (yep, more than my DH) and it really helps.

ps lastly, I know it doesn't seem it but I am normally a very positive person indeed!!

pps I mentioned September as that's when S's party is (realise that everyone is unlikely to have been taking notes so thought it best to point out!)

Confused, I'm here, brain dump away. Will be here on and off most of the night. Talk as much as you want, I can't promise I will be any use, but you can write whatever you want. And don't apologise about any of it, this thread has always been about trying to balance our lives, and this is all part of life. And frankly, if anyone doesn't like it, this door on the left leads to the 'Symptom Spotting' thread, so feel free to use it.

I'm glad you have sone RL friends there to support you. It's going to be difficult until you know more about how he is responding. He's been so great, and he needs you all especially now. DH is obviously struggling with all this in his own, perhaps less than ideal, way, but you are really going to need him in the coming months.

I'm stopping now to post this, so you know Im here. Xx

Oh confused how horrible, and what a lot to have to deal with without the support you should be getting. I'm sure DH is feeling a bit helpless to help you, and perhaps a bit almost threatened because this is pulling you (back) towards S in a funny kind of way, even though of course it's nothing that should threaten him, but however inevitable and right it is that you're thinking about S so much, perhaps it's a little hard for your DH at a subconscious level. A bit like the second wife of a widower finding it hard as she can never have the emotional pull of the first wife, however awful the circumstances which produced the intense emotions at the end of the first marriage. And your DH's obviously got things on his mind as well, as you say. All that said, I don't think any of it is a full excuse - and of course it may be nothing to do with any of these things so forgive (and ignore if not appropriate) my kitchen psychology! Even if there is anything of any of this to the situation, he (your DH) should be able to see things for what they are, and get over himself, and give you the love and support you need. Men in general, in my experience (and I love men - this is no hostile rant!) are really rubbish at finding the emotional energy to do this kind of thing, and really seem to find it harder than it needs to be. But they should try a bit bloody harder sometimes.

Anyway, sorry that is probably all bollocks but I think if this was a female friend of yours it's possible he would be a bit different. (But perhaps not.) I'm so so sorry S is going through such awful things. It doesn't help any, but it does remind me so much of my best friend and the months when she was really really ill. She recovered from an absolutely horrendous emergency when she was already in hospital but had the crisis resuscitation/recovery team called to her bed at one point, and lived for many months after that, most of them with some reasonable quality of life and all at home. But I realize that doesn't mean anything here necessarily. (Except I do know, to some extent at least, what you're going through - and it sucks.) Huge hugs.

OK, I'm supposed to be going out in about 15 minutes with a pudding I haven't made so I'd better get going but thinking of you (and S) - as we all are on here. xx

PS. I'm fine, thanks - just enough symptoms to feel reassured!

Oh dear Confused, I'm so sorry to read your recent posts about S. Obviously I'm new to the thread but it must be a really really distressing time for you. A couple of my RL friends have gone through similar things recently - for one of them the friend's illness put a massive strain on her relationship too. I'm sorry to hear your DH is struggling to deal with S's illness appropriately or in a way that's supportive to you.

Like HP said, it sounds like you have some really lovely close RL friends to support you. But my thoughts with you too.

Hope you had a lovely time away and that the good news is starting to sink in!