Ditherers Anonymous - Is there ever a right time?

[confuseddoiordonti]

A continuation from the previous two threads we have filled going round in circles about whether to have a baby, or whether never to have a baby... All insights and new recruits welcome!

(and those of you now with BFP's - don't you go sloping off leaving us for more decisive types!)

Definitions courtesy of Dr Honeypetal Sparklepants.

Dither: vb. def. The act of procrastination and delaying of coming to a decision regarding reproduction due to an attachment to lie-ins, working bowels and cheap holidays in term time.

Ditherer: n. def. One who is in a permanent state of flux regarding whether to procreate or not (see def. of babyometer). On the flick of a coin, may ultimately not reproduce, or bear triplets. Whatever. pl. A confusion of ditherers.

Babyometer: def. Semi-quantitative scale upon which an individuals current extent of dithering (i.e. desire to conceive) is measured, commonly red, amber or green, although reddy-amber, greeny-amber and reddy-ambery-green have been described (see def. Dithering). Caution is required during interpretation as measurement may change hourly.

That does sound like a fantastic opportunity - if you have time, I say go for it! Fingers crossed for you that it all goes through at your company, how exciting. Good luck.

Is that an actual decision on the thread?

Starting to wonder where all us oldies are hiding

Congrats on the MBA Froglover. It sounds like a fab opportunity for you. Hope it goes really well!

Afternoon ladies,

Congratulations to Froglover, a decision is always something to be greeted with joy and aprobabtion - and you can reserve the right to change your mind at any point in the future -that's the first rule of dithering!

Sorry I've been awol for a while. Real Life has been getting in the way of quality Mumsnetting time of late. A friend of mine had a subarachnoid haemorrhage three weeks ago, which has taken up a fair amount of my time and energy. It was touch and go for teh first couple of days, but she was very lucky in that she was already in hospital for an unrelated outpatient appointment at the time, so was able to get treatment very promptly. The only major loss of function that she currently has is reduced vision, but that is gradually improving, so it looks like she's on teh road to recovery now. She was discharged from hospital last Friday and I spent last weekend at her house (she lives alone) just to keep an eye on her and make sure she took all her pills at the appointed time. It's been a bit of a worry though.

From a pregnancy point of view things are going well. I'm now 23 weeks in and the 20 week scan (which we had at 21 weeks) showed everything was normal and average and progressing as it ought. We remain gender ignorent, ready for a surprise in November. The baby is doing fine, but the host has been struggling a bit. I've had a few dizzy spells of late, most worryingly last week, whilst on my way (in the car) to an off site meeting. I've been tested for anemia, but blood tests show my blood count to be normal, or I think it must just be one of those things which come with pregnancy. I'll be upping my iron intake anyway, cos even if I don't have a deficiency, there must be something making me feel like I'm going to keel over on a regualar basis.

On the up side, I have a proper bump and baby is kicking like a good 'un now. I fluctuate between thinking this is great and feeling like I've got some sort of alien in there!

Sorry this has been all a bit me me me (and not very dithery - although Ihave to confess to feeling a bit amber when I get up for the fifth pee of the night and can't get back to sleep again), but I just wanted to check in and let you guys know that all's well-ish with me. I'll pop back through the thread and catch up with what I've missed now.

I'm 29 and single and have been thinking about having a baby by myself (via a known donor) for about a year now. And I'm still no closer to making up my mind than I was when I started thinking about this! I want to have children and I want to start soon (I have PCOS and am fat and would like a five year or so gap between my children).

But I'm still not sure I want to do this; I don't know how I'll rearrange my work life (I currently work a lot of hours, I'd cut back to standard full time hours, but I don't know how we'd arrange that (small work place, I've got particular skills)). I don't know how I'd manage with a tantruming 2 or 3 year old, with no adult to help. And I'm not sure thinking 'oh, I'll meet lots of mums while I'm pregnant and get on well enough with some of them that they'll help me out' is realistic thinking.

Would [in some ways] very much like to end up accidentally pregnant....

Hi *YTD"! I didn't realise you'd recently posted and emailed you earlier. I too have been 'otherwise engaged' recently so haven't been loitering as normal.
So, a proper bump - now that is exciting! While I can often pass for about 5 months gone () I cannot imagine what on earth it must feel like - all that kicking etc. Alien sounds a very apt word! Still, perhaps weirdly, it does vaguely appeal. Sometimes anyway.

Hello Karen2205 too. I don't mean this rudely but, at 29, what's the rush? I have some friends who had a daughter in February and they said it has given them new found respect (not that they didn't respect them in the first place, but now they really do) for single parents as it's Bloody Hard Work. And I think you might be right about other mum's you'll meet being able to help out not being very realistic. Sorry to not be more positive but it sounds as if there are many major factors getting in the way at the moment.

Bloody Mother Nature, eh?

Sorry, YTD, I have just re-read my post (in my defence I wrote it while also having half an eye on the tv) and realised I didn't even mention your friend. I'm really sorry!

Have just had a look at your link and it looks as if she is very lucky to be alive. Amazing stroke of luck that she was in hospital at the time too. Is there any clue to what caused it?

Hope she's getting feeling back to normal very soon. I take it her sight is coming back reasonably quickly if she is at home...?

Hurrah ? lovely to hear from YTD and Confused! I haven't been around much myself, with various things going on (nothing exciting, I hasten to add!).

Im so sorry to hear about your friend, YTD, what a fright, here?s hoping for a quick and full recovery. You are such a good friend to go and look after her, I bet it made a real difference to her. And huuuge excitement for the 21 week scan of Wriggly-YTD-baby! I cant believe its been nearly five months already, I know the first few months perhaps drag with all the feeling icky but it seems to be going over so quickly. I?m excited that you don?t know the gender as well, I totally get why people would want to find out (and maybe LST or LQ will go down that route) but I think I would leave it as a birth-day surprise. How exciting!! And at least you weren't carrying around a huge bump during all this hot weather, your large bumpy months will be in the Autumn, which is perfect ? good planning

C ? will reply to your email, but you are being a total star, and here is an internet cuddle Im very excited about your job plans ? could this be a hint towards a ?greener? future?

(Must stop using at the end of all my paragraphs)

Hi Karen! Wow. You are a brave sausage, non? I don?t want to be patronising in any way at all, but (and Im sure you have done this/are doing this) please, please think very carefully about having a baby by yourself. I know being a two parent family doesn?t ensure that all will be well, but as C says, its really, really hard to be a single parent (trust me, I have direct if not personal experience of this). If you decide that its the only way forward for you, then you are entitled to make that decision for you and the child, but as you are still so young I would maybe give it a little while before committing either way. There are many of us on this thread who are older than you and haven't had a baby yet! Good luck, and hang around here if you want to watch grown women mess about and delay making decisions

No real news from me. I posted a ?boob-pain? thread on General Health yesterday as for the first time In My Life my boobs were so painful I was nearly in tears. In fact, I was in tears, and declared that after my Gynae tests, I?m going back on the pill because this all sucks and is rubbish and pointless and I hate it and bleuuggghhhhh. Tee hee. But got some good tips from actual MN ladies (heat, good bra, Evening Primrose Oil, more heat) and feel a little better today. Interesting the peak of boob pain so far was on my highest temp of the month (don?t know if the relationship between temp and progesterone concentration is truly linear). Also, this whole thing about triphasic charts = pregnancy appears not to be true for me, as my last two months have been triphasic, but no baby. Thank goodness, as I am quite amber, so ambivalent its not even funny

ohh if only i had found this thread months ago, i would have read it all by now and i could have made an informed post, but have just skimmed the first page and can i join please????

i have been undecided when to try for another baby, dh wants to but doesnt do any of the work (swears he will do more with new onw) i have all the hard work and am not convinced.

dd is 4, 5 in oct and cant imagine having a heavier work load than i already do, but know another child would be 20 times more work, but do want another baby for dd to play with when its older.

any way i am at work and tea break is over, so got to go, but will report in later toodlooo

Just wanted to check in really, I've been reading recent posts but have just been bimbling along with nothing to report. Honeypetal, triphasic charts, say what? I am such a novice to this! My first period since having my implant removed arrived this Sunday (forgive if there's an abbreviation for period?!), nice to know the body is in some kind of working order; my sister waited 2 years for any sort of period after coming off the pill. Quite relieved to get the tampons out really as have been drinking like a thirsty fish. I blame the weather. I can now begin learning about my 'cycle', work out when I'm ovulating hopefully, do something with charts and wee-sticks, and then have systematic intercourse in a position allowing for deep penetration every other day over the designated period. Spontaneous moi! I don't think I'm taking this seriously yet, did wonder how long before my heart sinks when my period arrives, whilst at the mo it's a cause for a celebratory margherita!

Being a true ditherer, I was dithering about replying to this thread.

YTD I'm sorry to hear about your friend, it must have been a difficult time. I'm glad everything is OK with her, and also with your baby/tummy alien.

karen Wow, you seem to have a multitude of dithering factors! I have no advice... (sorry)

confused How are you? Any news? No news?

HP You sound positively GREEN to me!

lizandlulu Hello, welcome. I'm new too. Seems friendly round these parts.

Sparklywine It's reassuring when your period comes back isn't?

Update for me: Hmmm not much. Still on the POP. Starting new job soon, as is H.Also moving house next month. Kittens are growing insanely quickly, but I love them SO much! I'm taking so many pictures of them, I dread to think what I'll be like when I have a real baby (rather than furry ones).

We keep dithering together about what we want to do with our lives. It still all feels uncertain and unreliable. There's an oncology appointment on Friday, and if it's still good news it'll be 6 months since the diagnosis. We don't know if we still want to live in the town that we do and want to try and make a move to settle down a bit first. We both want some clear blue water between the cancer and the next stage of our lives.

On the positive side, I don't know if coming off the implant has helped but I positively can't keep my hands off my husband! Dreading actively TTC and thinking it a chore!

Hey all my dithering friends.

Hope you all well and holding up against the forces that are hormones sometimes; I had my coil out and then went in to a blind panic when my period was late and thought I might be pregnant but when I did start I was gutted that I did!

Also I think I must be green and its made me and DH closer as I cant get enough of him and happier now than ever even with the loss of my nan I'm surviving. On a very boozy night out I bumped into an old boy toy of mine wasnt even interested and that never happens (please dont hate me )

hi
I have a 4 year old who starts school in september, and one who turns 3 in october. keep getting really broody. husband is 42, so dont want to leave it to long if we do want another, so its kind of soon or never. but....will i be able to cope with 3?

Hello all,

For any newcomers - I've rather gone beyond the concerns of this thread, as expecting my first in January, but just thought I'd say a very very belated hello to the old timers (and welcome to all newbies of course!). So sorry that I've been completely silent for so long - had some email with confused, but otherwise have been busy with RL stuff and travelling, like YTD, and sorta lost the MN vibe for a while. Which isn't to say I haven't missed you all...

Really sorry to hear about your friend, YTD - as I think has been demonstrated before, you are as hp (I think) says a very very good friend. I really hope she's doing very well - sounds good but it must still be scary.

Great that everything is going well - for the little 'un, anyway. Hope you're feeling better. It would sound like iron, you're right, if the tests didn't say otherwise - my friend had a kind of crash around the same time (possibly a bit later, actually) - dizziness, sickness, extreme fatigue - which was anaemia, despite eating healthily, so do take care (as you obviously are). Take absolutely any opportunity to rest (kicks permitting!).

Great to hear from you, hp! But sorry you're having continued (hormone-related?) problems - does seem super-unfair. Hope work has improved (from crappy phase weeks ago...) - are you getting a break at all this summer? I've been skulking round your workplace for various reasons a bit of late, so keeping a surreptitious eye out! (OK, now I sound like a proper stalker!)

Things are good on most fronts with me - nothing as exciting as YTD's 21-week scan, but the 12-week scan was actually completely amazing (despite embarrassing zealous first time mum-to-be incident when my bladder was actually TOO full to do a proper scan and was sent to empty it halfway through!). I have a sneaking suspicion that this period is the best bit of the whole experience of childhood in some ways - feeling ok now, fantasizing about wonderful future child, seeing it looking cute (up to a point at least) on the screen, all safe and untroublesome, waving its little legs and arms around, me not too tired... Never mind, can't freeze the process now! In other news, my MSc project is a complete car crash disaster - have only found 10 participants for my experimental group as recruiting a complete nightmare for this constituency, and all the measures different units and kinds of scale so completely floundering in the statistics - which are meaningless anyway - and also woefully behind on the write-up. I think this happens often enough, the poor data part anyway, if you do a 'real world' project, but it is quite scary at this point, and is set to scupper travel plans for August. Never mind, mostly myself to blame, and I still think I will pass (fingers crossed), just rather shabbily. (As my sister says, no one ever asks you what you got on a Masters, right?!)

Anyway, apologies to all the new and even medium-length posters for all this dither-unrelated stuff. Just a catch up for the original ladies really (who have probably forgotten who I am by now!). Should also give a big wave to confused, of course - will email, but hope you're doing ok (you have just been so strong), lots of hugs from me too, and to second hp's good wishes for the new professional direction .

Hope everyone else is doing ok. Really glad things are looking positive, Fancy - can't imagine how it's been, but I can completely see how a period of calm and stock-taking sounds good after what you've both been through. V. best of luck with those decisions.

You sound in the grip of a full-on dither, cowboy! You are sounding more than a little green though... Keep us posted!

Wow, Jemz - I can't imagine being in that position, good luck with that decision. I always look at how much hard work three are and think 'why would anyone want more than two?', but I know it's a whole different ball game when you get to where you are, and many people I know just adore the baby of their family. But definitely a tricky one.

OK, I really better go get some breakfast and get on with the day. I think I'm starting to have more energy now, and boy do I need it as everything work-wise is a little on the slide! Somehow I can't get too worked up about it though.

Love to all, especially dear friends of yesteryear!

LST - are you still there? If you need any help at all with the project I am literally just around the corner. Confused has my email address, if you dont want to search through the thread, but I am available for any possible help/reading/advice. I also have a lot of contacts dotted around the hospital/university who maybe would be able to give you a hand, including statisticians. A lot of your marks will come from demonstrating that you fully understand the limitations of your data, so you really need to hammer that point in your report.

(So pleased everything is going well with miniLST, as IF we could forget you, tsk)

Hiya, came across this thread and thought I'd put my two pence in.

I am currently 20 weeks pregnant and aged 36 - got married last year after 1.5 yr relationship.

Prior to this had only vaguely thought of children and generally thught I'd like to have one but not sure when and like some of you was somewhat put off by the knackered/stressed out mums you see in Tescos.

I basically bit the bullet because of my age - perhaps if my fairy godmother had appeared and told me I could have babies up to age X lets say 43 (like my grandmother) I might not be pregnant now.

I guess what tipped the scale was friends around me who were having problems conceiving and I felt that whilst I couldnt miss what I didnt know I would rather decide I absolutely didnt want kids then not have them because I dithered so much and the choice was taken off me.

I cannot say we are having a baby for any noble reason per se but I have to say I am amazed how I secretly love this child (secretly because I am anxious about something going wrong so I am abit blase to hide my fear) - I think there is nothing wrong with NOT having a child but if you dont have a strong feeling not to then I dont see why you are waiting.

For some illogical reason I think of Jennifer Aniston - how she might not have kids now (of course she might not mind that for all I know) and why she didnt when married to Mr Pitt - does she kick herself?

not sure I've made that much sense but basically I am in the dont dither camp - jump in - its a whole new world!

Hey SpanishLady I tend to want to agree with not dithering, I don't want to dither. I want to be sure. Or maybe not, I just want to not be frightened and UNsure.

Flashing from red-amber to amber now.

Started my new job and I really love it! Husband now saying he wants to start trying from January. I still feel too young! But at the same time like so much has happened (particularly in relation to reproductive organ interference!) that I want to do it. I also think that creating life is life-affirming and that could be really positive for us.

sigh Dither dither...

Hi SpanishLady, and hello to everyone else - good to hear from you. I suspect I have significantly ruined this thread by resorting to email but will now make an effort and post more.

Spanishlady your post was very thought provoking. Very thought provoking indeed. I too am 36 in September and how easy it will be to TTC does play at the back of my mind. While I am very active and eat well I am also a type 1 (NOT the lifestyle related one, the one where you can't help it!) diabetic and drink too much and don't have the cleanest living of backgrounds. Guess I am everything to excess and this ranges from partying (a particular skill of mine!) to exercise (I have done two triathlons and walk my dog up to three hours a day, as well as having no car which also means I walk everywhere.) Like yourself, if I knew I'd be able to relatively easily at the age of, say, 40, I wouldn't be in the panic.
However, I won't drone on in too much detail, but we are trying to sell our house and move to the other end of the country as we are in serious financial shit. We have a house we want to buy which needs gutting and starting over, I am wanting a change of career which I'll obviously have to take lots of time to get established in. None of these things are compatible with baby-making. I guess, and can see from your post, that when you do find yourself pregant that the other things start to pale into insignificance but, from where I am now, I can't visualise that. If nothing else, the money side of things could only make things worse at the moment and, call me fussy, I think living in a building site with a baby would be even worse than just living in a building site.

And therein lies the rub!

LST good to hear from you. You see, hearing about your 12 week scan makes me massively GREEN and then I think there are too many obstacles at the moment to seriously think about it. I seem to recall you were trying for 3? 4? years too, weren't you? This makes me a bit anxious too (and the diabetic side of things won't help either!)

LST What's your masters about? I'm writing mine up too, though it's in education so is a very different kettle of fish indeed. I like the idea that no-one asks what grade you get on your MA. I shall keep repeating to myself that as I spend August watching everyone else have fun whilst I'm chained to the laptop getting distracted by MN being productive.
Good luck with all your writing.

School term is now over and I'm still green as ever. DH had it in his head that I want a summer baby and had worked out that we need to start trying in November/December. I think he has the idea that it'll all just work on the first try. I've convinced we might try sooner but my cycle is all over the place at the moment so who knows when there'll be the next opportunity.

Spanishlady, I think we are of similar mindsets, congrats of your pregnancy by the way! I felt a little pang of envy so must be ready. I am now 37 and like you thought if I really didn't want children then I would probably always regret not trying, so here goes. First 'proper' period out of the way so trying now to work out when I might be ovulating. The calculator is quite helpful but I don't know how on earth I'm meant to know how long my luteal phase is?! I shall just have to be actively trying for a week or so and see what happens. Still quite casual about it, but charts and sticks are probably only a month or two away (after a couple of periods, "aaargh, what's wrong with me?") Sympathise with the worrying about something going wrong with the pregnancy, that's always put me off even trying in the past, which seems pessimistic but also practical. Confused, I too drink far too much and don't even counter it with exercise other than the odd bimbly swim. I am also getting stressed about not having a car and not being able to afford one; how will I be able to ferry Sparkly Jnr to fun activities? I realise this is ludicrous and plenty of people manage, I guess the most silly things can cause the most insidious nagging concerns...

Glad I'm not the only one who drinks too much on this thread! I keep reading about how it can damage fertility and thinking that perhaps a few dry days months would be a good idea but then, er, doing nothing.

This is a quick post as at work. Back later on

Hi all,

Thanks so much, hp - I just saw my supervisor, so have some leads to try, though I am going to have spend some serious hours with an SPSS book (the stats package we're using) to understand what she said and get my head round any of it. But if I hit a brick wall I will email you - it's comforting even to have that possibility! (Actually I might email you anyway )

Outing myself completely here, but it's a project on psychosocial function in those born with cleft lip, Eskarina - administering several questionnaires and seeing how their various factors correlate with satisfaction with appearance, and how the results compare for a cleft group and control group. Thanks for the encouragement - same to you! My sister did an MA in Education, though not 100% sure what exactly (I think something about using theory in teaching English, but I know there was a lot more to it than that).

Congrats, Spanishlady - great news, and lovely to hear you're so positive - though I think I might be a bit more hesitant about recommending conceiving on the strength of pregnancy alone - a bit more to the whole business than that, surely?! That said, most of what you say sounds exactly like me, and I'm certainly enjoying this bit (blinkin' project aside).

We were trying for a while, confused - about 4 yrs on paper, though to be honest we're both away a lot and probably weren't doing the deed enough to start with - and drinking too much for at least the first 3 years of that period! I don't know if the latter made that much difference, but it probably didn't help - from my newly sober perspective, I can't believe I didn't have a few months off, or nearly off, to see what would happen - I cut down a lot in the last year or so, of course, but perhaps not enough? - but then it's easy from this position, where I just can't drink and that's that (or hardly at all). It was so much harder when there was no definitive reason not to! (And we won't talk about my DH...) So quite understand how much of a challenge it is. Anyway, you can hardly blame yourself of late - far too much else going on to worry too much about that.

Anyway, this is all fairly inconsequential - good luck, all with these dilemmas. Off to the library to enter data into a spreadsheet in yet another way to see if that makes more sense!

LST - hope its going ok, the offer always stands if you need any advice or suchlike (and you can email me anytime!). By choice, I tend to use Prism for my basic stats and then a statistician for anything hugely complex. If all else fails, a t-test (or ANOVA if doing multiple comparisions) will sort the crap from the positive. Be slightly suspicious of any data that needs incomprehensible stats to show a p val of 0.049!!

I'm not a big drinker but I can sympathise with those worried about the impact on fertility. If it is a cause for concern it might not hurt to have a honest assessment, and then maybe think about cutting back, not just for TTC reasons. What I do know is alcohol = calories and I have heard about people who have lost literally two stone just by stopping drinking (disclaimer: I assume they were really putting it away though!).

To be honest, Id rather be doing LSTs stats than dealing with the TTC/not TTC issue at the moment. In short, things have moved rapidly in the HP household in the last couple of months, if not days, and I have a huge decision to make in the next three days. For various excellent reasons it may be a good idea to go for it RIGHT NOW. But only for the next few months. But I'm sooo reluctant (yes, I know, quelle surprise). DH is still lukewarm at best but would be willing if I was willing, but hand on heart, I'm just too scared.

Yes. I think that's the long and short of it now. I'm just too scared.

I cant even admit to myself if I want a baby or not. I'm a lost cause....

I've been off the radar for quite a while so thought it was about time to swing by and say hello. So "hi all" .

So, scanning back through old posts, congratulations FrogLover - what an amazing opportunity and good on you for making that decision!

YTD - hope your friend continues to improve. That must have been beyond scary, both for her and for friends and family. But good news on the bump, and make sure you take it a bit more easily if that's what your body is telling you!

karen2205 - that's one big scary move your thinking about, but I have some empathy for you as I know someone in a very similar position though she's a good bit older. Good luck with making a decision.

HP - you may have sorted the boob pain by now, but if it's at all reassuring I suddenly had the same a year or two back. I completely terrified myself at the time but I think I eventually tracked it down to badly fitting bras - either that or buying EPO which I never actually took after seeing the size of the capsules! That's some wonder drug eh?! Good luck with decision making in the next few days - am in a rather similar position myself (but have longer than three days to decide - or take action).

FancyALittle and others thinking about dithering - welcome, and hope you find decision making easier than some of us who've been knocking around here for a long time!

LST - your post about your scan made me almost green! Great news to hear that everything is going along just fine in the baby department, and good luck with recruiting people for your project. Do you get a mark for a Master's? Can't help with the stats I'm afraid, I know I ought to know more about the nitty gritty of them than I actually do

As for me, things have kind of moved on a bit. Won't post the complicated job details on an open forum as it makes me too identifiable (but happy to share!) but basically, now would be a kind of good time to have a baby. But it comes back to the same old question of whether I want a baby enough to take any proactive action! I have started charting and am already exasperated by the lack of robustness of my data (I feel the need to try and remove all the variables and then get n=>2), but so far it seems to look vaguely like it ought to. On the other hand, having spent the weekend in the company of a child who attracts adult attention by either shouting or by pinching/biting the backs of adults' legs, I'm not so sure I really want to have one of my own that I can't give back....

Apologies for bad spelling - I blame alcohol and a keyboard full of crumbs...

Ahh nice to hear from you Suerock, been a bit quiet from me as well.

Been really busy at work, planning and decorating the house so not really much MN time.

Got to say all the comments are correct im feeling very green and now just dithering over the timing but from others advise it has just been thats enought to just go for it but who knows.... maybe lets see what the new year brings?

How much is too much on the drinking front? I just dont know to be honest. I dont think I drink to much but im sure some would say different!

Just a quickie...

I've just read this article which is of relevance to folks like us!

And if you follow the link on the webpage, apparently there was a Womans Hour special on the matter on 28/07/10.

Hope all well, HP x