Charter's Anonymous

[LittleSilver]

I thought I'd start a thread for all of us who worship at the shrine of Toni Weschler, spend whole seconds analysing cervical mucus, slip over in the shower checking cervical position and spend two minutes every morning flicking their heads from side to side in a valiant attempt to stop a baby pulling the thermometer out of their mouths. Ladies, this thread is for all of us, may it see many many BFPs!

bessie lucky we're not going to Bognor!

It's highly unlikely I will actually ovulate on holiday as it's still so early in my cycle, but who knows maybe there'll be someting in the Devon water...

littlesilver it's NOT going to rain.

get you digi - starting a bus!

Morning everyone! Just a quickie - my chart thinks I have ovuated but I have a dotted line as I never had a positive OPK. So, does this mean I probably ovulated, or probably didn't? Now just holding out for at least a 24 day cycle so I have the minimum of 10 DPO. Don't know whether to be happy or what!

Just had a peep beach, looks good to me, but would wait and see what tomorrows temp brings! Fingers crossed!

I'm confused. This is the first month temping and you girls sound like the experts. I'm bf and co-sleeping so my temps prob not tip top in terms of accuracy as I never sleep 3 hours straight!

Last three cycles have all been over 33 days in length. FF now says I've ovulated - on cd8! I did have a little ewcm before that but only a little. But i haven't BDed this month as DP been away. Is it possible this is wrong?

The niggly thing is that when I conceived DS I think it may have been pretty early in the cycle as he was, ahem, a lovely surprise!

But due to having longish cycles does this mean I have the mother of all LP's - is this possible?

Any comments would be great. chart here althought not sure how to do this

oh... just me here!

hi ladygonegaga, welcome! I'm sure someone who know what they're talking about will be along soon, but in the meantime...

I tried to look at your chart, but the link didn't work - it should look something like this www.fertilityfriend.com/home/2d2a06
Under "Sharing" click "email your chart" and send yourself an email - it will contain the URL you need!

It's difficult to guess say much about your cycles without seeing you chart, but mine were pretty confused while I was still bf. (See my early charts if you want). How old is your DC? How many cycles have you had since giving birth? Have you read the book?

beach you know i've never noticed before that sometimes the red line is dotted, and sometimes it's not!
I agree with silver your chart looks good as you've got what looks like a nice temp shift going on & CM dry up, but it's hard to be too sure as you don't have much data... fingers crossed!

beach Looks like a clear temp rise to me. You probably missed the surge with the opks. Think the dotted line is more due to your last low temp taken at a different time?

ladyggg can't access your chart. But longest a luteal phase can be is 16 days. 17 is possible but rare and you'd only go to 17 if you were normally 16. Have you dropped a feed recently? That usually kickstarts an early ovulation.

I'm a doofus try here

Bessie will take a look.

My DS is 2 and 2 months. AF came back when he was 20ish months I think. So have had about 6 or 7. They came back and were 28 days immediately for a couple of cycles. Then not sure whether a coincidence but I ran a marathon on cd14 which I think whacked my cycle out as had a 40 day cycle! Since then had one 35, one 34, one 33. Not read the book but read all the ff tutorials etc. This is month 2 actively ttc.

Prior to having DS they varied from 28 to 34. But as I mentioned the scan and BDing dates for DS suggested I conceived v early in cycle so wondered whether I might be a luteal freak of nature?

Hows everyone getting on?

If my temp rises again tomorrow, then according to FF I would have ov'd on CD14,which is good as we did the deed CD10, 11,12 & 14 phew! Gutted I missed CD13 though!

Didnt use OPKs this month, so I'm relying on goood ol'fashioned temps!

Now it's the 2ww! Shouldnt be too bad as I'm off on my jollies tonight,which should distract me!

Bring on the wine, soft cheese and other forbidden foods!!!!

Catch up with you all in 2 weeks xx

EVERYONE Thought I'd share the finding of this study that looked at various methods women use to predict the day they ovulate - incluing OPK sticks and charting. The link to full write-up is here.

The study is very interesting: they used 101 women from infertile couples who were scanned (ultrasound) throughout one cycle. Of those 101 cycles, ovulation was confirmed in 97 of the cases.

LH sticks indicated a surge in 100 of the 101 cycles. In three cases, despite a positive surge, there was no evidence of ovulation by ultrasound. This doesn't surprise me because LH surge is just your body trying to ovulate.

They also asked the women to chart. 11 of the cases were not 'assessible', they don't say why but I assume some of the women couldn't manage to do it properly through the cycle so their charts discounted.

In the other 90 women, BBT showed a biphasic pattern in 69 cycles (68.3%) and a doubtful or monophasic pattern in 21 cases - or 20.7% of the study!. Ultrasound correlated with BBT charts in 65 of the ovulatory cycles, and 2 of the anovulatory cycles.

The day that people ovulated according to charting is a bit more of a concern. In the cases in this study, they found a wide variability between when charts say people ovulated and when ultrasound say ovulation happened: "ranging from 8 days before to 4 days after ovulation".

If I am understanding this correctly, I assume it could mean that if my chart says I ovulated on CD14, I might actually have ovulated anywhere between CD6 or even up to CD18. (I can't work out how many women were 'off' with their charts so don't know how common this out of synch thing is).

They conclude that BBT is a good method for confirming ovulation (i.e. you see a biphasic pattern), but less reliable for nailing down the actual day of ovulation.

I thought I'd share - basically, I think that if we use charting alone, you need to SWI for at least 8 days before your chart usually says you ovulate, and keep going for 4-5 days after to be damn sure you were busy at the right time.

I use a CBFM and charting, and in most of my cases they correlate and I have assumed I am in synch. But I now wonder if I actually ovulate later than my charts say, and DH and have always stopped SWI'ing one day after the spike ... I wish I'd found this study earlier to cover all bases.

oh bloddy hell - you mean I've got to find the energy to SWI for an extra 13 days per cycle?

I can't possibly have that much sex!!! Hello ladies, I'm in a lovely mood tonight as my summer hols start here and the fridge is full of wine! I have to confess I'm not charting at the mo - last cycle I gave myself the first 7 days off and it was lovely so I did that again. However, I'm off on my hols on Sunday so am ditching the thermometer for this month. Do you think I'm mad?

CD8 today so at least another 10 days before there's any chance of ov. Like digi my hol will have been and gone before there's any chance of an egg!

Hope you're all well xx

I've only ever got pg when not doing opks so think I'll ditch them this month.

teason I reckon a break from temping's a good idea. I've only just started again so gonna give it a couple of months. You must know your pre and post ov temp range by now so you could do the odd check to see if you're pre or post.

choccie ff was three days out when I conceived ds, so I do believe there can be a discrepancy.

Anyway ladies. Am now packed, we leave at 6am tomorrow. Enjoy swi-ing or going mental on the 2ww!

OK, Temp has dropped again this morning so FF has taken my lines out so it looks unlikely I ov'ed cd8. This is a big learning curve!

theteasonme Ennjoy your month off! Do you reckon it's ok to have a week off temping then during period - makes no diff to interpretation? I may do this if so since I'm finding it a bit of a faff.

choccie interesting paper you linked to! Although of course, the sample is a small number of women (100 isn't very many, by medical standards), and the women were all ovulating but infertile. This means that, unless you are an ovulating and infertile woman, the results may not mean a great deal to you. Where are the control groups? E.g.: there needs to be at least two other groups of women, 1) ovulating and fertile, and 2) anovulatory - then the results between the three groups could be compared and you would have a better idea of the influencing factors.

But basically, the concept of having more sex is probably something you should be adhering to if you're TTC? It can't hurt, surely?! Although I'm guessing if you've been TTC for a while it all gets a bit boring, tiring, unspontaneous etc?

Anyway, just thought I'd add a little criticism of the paper into the pot.

hi all.
teason and digi have a lovely holiday

choccolate it's nice to read more about these things. I think I'm fairly in sync but this month it's happenednto work out that we have had SFF every other day and are now coming up to SWI time so hopefuuly we're in with a chance!! Am hoping that my cycle is back to day 18 OV which is Tues, we'll see.

have a good weekend all

choccie just had a proper look at that link. As beach points out it is a small study so the results need to be taken with a pinch of salt, but still interesting non the less.

I wonder sometimes if the more things I use to help me identify O the more confused I get. When I fell pg with DD I was using OPKs, but never got a +ive, and relied solely on my CM.

I always intend to continue SWI until I'm sure I've seen a temp surge & had a dry up, but looking back at my charts I don't seem to be managing it! I will somehow find the energy & enthusiasm to continue for longer this time!

ladyggg just had a look at your chart - I think you need to have 3 temps above your coverline temp to "confirm" ovulation, and I suspect FF needs more data than you've entered so far to work out what it is

I just wake up & take my temp automatically now, and if it's the weekend (and DD is still asleep) I just go straight back to sleep

ifatfirst did you get your temp rise? Am very impressed by your SWI efforts!

I agree with you both bessie and beach. Thing is, with this TTC lark, all sensible thoughts fly out the window and clutching at straws is the name of the game, especially as each month delivers further BFNs! e.g. I've been taking chinese herbs for months now . DH and I are both extremely research savvy so especially twittish of us.

I've been a bit worried though about my charts around ovulation time because I am usually fairly stressed at that time (due to the massive importance of that day of the month) and tired (due to SWI) and have always wondered how much of my rising temps was due to ovulation happening or the above...? DH has been especially about impact of those environmental influences on my charts.

We were also told by our fertility consultant that some women ovulate with no rises at all, and it was unreliable. He told us not to chart, but I ignored him (and will continue to ignore him).

FWIW (probably not much) I found the paper via an NHS site which advises medical professionals to NOT recommend OPKs or charting to couples TTC ... and they linked to this as the reason why.

I'm afraid for me though that the findings are enough to increase doubts I already had. I still love my charts, but am not going to 100% assume they are totally accurate, and we are going to increase the SWI, which was already significant IMO, and how I am going to manage that I don't know!!

I agree with not totally relying on charts but they are good guidelines and it does make me feel proactive rather than just relying on mothernature!

I went to the doc today and saw yet another doctor. He did seem to have his head screwed on though and recognised that the blood tests I initially had were not that much use as they were at the end of my cycle and not at the beginning so I am going to have to wait for AF to show her face and then go for blood tests. He did say that he has known women who take a year after they have stopped taking the pill for their bodies to regulate so I am still hoping that is what my body is doing! We will see though when I have the next tests I just hope I have ovulated (still not convinced) so I have not got to wait too long.

On a more serious note I have told my partner that he has to get me pregnant by mid september as I went to the dentist today and have to have a couple of hundred pounds worth of work done and if I am pregnant it is free!! I am willing my little eggs to pop out and be fertilised!!!

choccie what do you do to combat your stress? I think I would go mental without my weekly yoga class, I also find my acupuncture very relaxing and I also try to have a little lie down a few times a week to listen to some plinky plonky relaxing music

dani glad to hear your Dr was good! Do you know what tests you're having?
Dental work sounds expensive! My dentist isn't NHS so I still have to pay for everything while pg

I'm hoping to O in the next few days (FF reckons it will be at the weekend). CBFM has gone high & my award winning EWCM has made an appearance , so am ramping up the SWI to every other day...

OK - so I've been sketchy on the temp taking this month - been away (but that was pre-ov and I knew it so didn't worry too much) and been in an inutterably vile mood so didn't temp the last couple of days (perfect sister in law is pregnant).

FF's done its usual musical ovulation date routine before settling on day 16 (it hovered around day 12 for a while, paid day 14 a visit but seems to have decided it liked the number 16), temps went up steadily from day 13, minor fallback on day 15, back up till day 19 at 36.5... then got the "happy news" and didn't temp (or get out of bed) for 2 days. Today which is day 22, would be 6 dpo according to the date it finally decided I did ovulate on - and I've got a huge crash back down to 36.1... not due my period for another 6 days.

Can't find the button to share charts and I'm on the cheapie FF freebie level of skintness anyway - but obviously you know what I'm not daring to let myself think. Peed on a stick yesterday (decided I needed to make myself feel even more wretched than I already did) which of course was negative but sometimes it's like an itch you've got to scratch.

empty sorry, am at work so rushed response...

sorry to hear you're feeling down - it feels like every bloddy body is getting pg these days

under "Sharing" do you have the "email your chart" option? If so, email it to yourself & that will contain the link you need to tell us

all I actually logged on to share this link www.cks.nhs.uk it's NHS guidance you may want to make sure your Dr knows! (Someone on another thread posted it in response to a query I had on thyroid test results)

empty Sorry to hear you're feeling so low. This TTC lark is utterly shite, isn't it! I wish I could throw the towel in but obviously I just can't.

If you click your 'homepage' link on left hand side bar of FF you can share that link. If there's nothing on there, you need to click 'homepage setup' above your chart to get yours to appear there (you decide which charts to show at very bottom of the setup page, and if you click auto update, it will update your homepage when you update your temps).

bessie that's the site I found the link to the paper on. It's well worth bookmarking the site, very useful.

So much work to do so will check in to MN later....

Hi all,
empty I feel your pain!! Am also feeling very despondant - again.... The optimism never seems to stick with me for long at the moment. After all I said the other day about my cyles regulating themselves etc etc, well - I'm on day 18, when I thought I would have been OV'ing, and nothing is happening!! GAH! OPK's are giving on and off positive results which doesn't normally happen, temp is on the higher side and no EWCM. Lord only knows what is going on. Just feel I am doomed to have yet another annovulatory cycle (last one was Feb, and another one last Sept - so 3 in 10 months).

Tis truely, truely rubbish. To top it off, Mr O and I had a bit of a spat the other night when I demanded (yes, demanded ) we SWI, despite him being knackered. All because I thought I had a positive OPK, which turns out it wasn't .

Hope others are feeling more jolly .

I am failing to focus on work. I'm not feeling jolly orchid . Can't remember when I last felt optimistic about this. I am sorry about your SWI spat - those are horrible.

Last month was one of the most stressful I've ever had because my DH and I fell out around SWI time. Made me realise how badly TTC can affect a really good solid relationship. DH has been fairly positive up until now and he told me recently its only just dawning on him we may never have children and it is really upsetting him. I did wonder when we fought last month if it could ever be so bad and so desperate that he leaves me for a younger fertile another woman.

Sorry to be so miserable but in a weird way 'good' to know its not just me and others find it hugely hard too.