Assisted Conception (and the bits in between) Volume 5

[Bumpless]

Thought I'd set us up a new home! kettle's on and choc tin open.

This is a lucky start to our new thread: 2 BFPs and a fantastic fertilisation rate from Dueling!

Boobs and biscuits to everyone

Amber well done, keep us posted.

Just shaggy Yes, I agree with Horton, get as much info off the Internet as you can before you go. Yes, it is right that you should get referred after a year of trying whatever your age and after six months after 36. How old are you and how long has it been? I think if your GP is not helpful see if you can see someone else. What?s the deal with the next day appointment, does that mean you can?t book up in advance? How crazy. My GP surgery just sees patients when they need to be seen. I agree if your GP is not any good see another. It? a sad fact but time does play into this assisted conception thing in that the younger you are the better your chances and also that there can be long waits involved so the quicker you get on a list to be seen the better. All good luck.

MM hope you are enjoying the sunshine, I guess all the questions are just par for the course!

Kiwi hope your DS was suitable happy and is being kind to your tummy.
Levi please don?t spoil this happy time by worrying about twins. It is still far more likely not to be twins and if it is I am sure you will cope. You can find out in a few weeks can?t you? Just try and relax, don?t worry it will be fine. I am sure you will be able to cope with whatever comes along but as I say, it is not likely.

All the best to all.

No news for me, Aunty Flo arrived last week and spoiled my thoughts of a miracle baby! But yesterday at a church-related event I was in the kids room and a little two year old boy nearly fell asleep on my lap and I think if someone had said, he's yours you can take him home and keep him but you don't get to keep trying for 'one of your own' I would have been very happy! So I guess it is a good sign for the old adoption route. We can stat this process on 16th October, which is now just under 5 months away!

Justshaggy

it is 6 months after age 35.

I am not sure how official this website is but it says what I thought (although I got te age wrong it is 35)....

"If you have been actively trying for over a year without success your doctor may suggest that you look into some form of fertility monitoring just as a precaution. For those over the age of 35 it is suggested that you see your doctor after 6 months of unsuccessful trying. This is simply because fertility begins to decline after this age and prompt investigation will allow any problems to be identified and addressed earlier."

Or see

"According to the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority, "At 35 you're half as fertile as when you were at 25; at 40 you're half as fertile as when you were 35". This means that it can suddenly take much longer to get pregnant when you hit your late thirties or early forties and you may have problems conceiving at all.

Most couples (92 per cent) will conceive within two years if they do not use contraception and have regular sex. Regular sex means making love every two to three days throughout your cycle; this optimises your chances of conceiving. "

See this page for a cute moving picture of a baby wearing a crown and sitting on a throne under the slogan 'Demanding baby' WE should be so lucky!!

Anyway, I can't vouch for ANY of this info but it is a place to start and sounds about right so go armed with your info and hankies and ready to cry. Mo shame in crying it is how I feel a lot of the time and it is not that I am making myself cry at times just not stopping myself crying! But I do feel a lot better as we approach adoption and I want to wish you all the very best of luck and blessings at this time.

Prayers and positive sticky vibes to all.

Everyone thank you for all your support. I HATE going to see my GP and hate having to fight and make a case, but you've made me feel I have a right to do so ... and DH is coming with ... sooooooooo

Italiangreyhound - thanks for all that info!. I am 39 and we've been trying since March last year. I think the reason why I'm not getting much support is because we conceived twice last year - despite me being 38 - and I think the medical view has been there's obviously nothing wrong. MCs are not great, but taken on their own they won't do anything about them until I've had three But the MCs are only one part of the story.... I'm drawing up a bulletlist of concerns to take with me. When I think about my list, I start thinking I have no chance at all of conception... I hope she sees that its an issue too.

Horton I have managed to not test since then. But my temps are crashing, I'm spotting, and my mood is sinking like a stone. Better signs than a test, unfortunately .... Have you tested yet?

LeviStubbsTears and AmberC How are you both doing? More sticky vibes coming your way.

horton I cross posted. Sorry to hear that. I think I'm going to wait for AF too ... I am pretty certain she's on her way. I can convince myself I have symptoms but dropping temps don't lie (at least I think they don't).

Hello everyone! Had a week away with DH, just what I needed so haven't found downregging that bad! Was a little bad with the being healthy but don't really care as really relaxed and that must be better than being healthy (I think and hope!!). I have my blood test tomorrow to see if I can start injecting and continuing on the IVF treadmill, wish me luck!!

Levi and Amber congratulations!! Very excited for you

Shaggy glad you are off to the GP. I work for the NHS and sometimes patients who know their rights and are well up on the guidelines tend to get better treatment, so look up your local PCT guidelines on fertility and when you see your GP make them refer you to a fertility doctor. I was told last year I was too young for IVF in my area, so didn't qualify. I looked on the PCT website and realised they were changing the rules this year. My GP didn't know anything about it and luckily I got referred before March this year as I would have been 'too old' this year under the new rules. Good luck with it you've been through a lot and need support. MN's has told me more than any health professional!!

Cerubina I have exactly the same problem with two of my close friends. So many times they haven't even asked me how things are going. One who has been PG both times within a month of trying told me 'after you are 30 it is often a problem and two years is normal'. I felt so upset because after 4 years they have never really shown any compassion I really think that until you go through ttc you'll never understand the strength of the emotions you go through. Big hugs to you :-)

Horton so sorry my love, had everything crossed for you, take time to look after and spoil yourself, big hugs

Bad luck Horton, what rotten news. Hope you're doing ok.

Poppy, hope the blood test means you can move onto the jabs and get going!

Justshaggy, hope the 'signs' were wrong!

A question, if anyone can answer it... I have been downregging on Suprefact for 10 days. Yesterday I had some bright pink blood when I wiped (TMI!) and then some brown spotting with a couple of 'stringy' bits of blood (way TMI!) for the rest of the day. Nothing too major. Seems to be going the same way today. Would you start the oestrogen? I really want to get going for the transfer but am wondering if there could be problems starting oestrogen before my period really gets going?

No point calling Guy's - as any of you who have been with them know, they are not the best at getting back to you.

Hi all

Thanks for kind comments. I know it's difficult for friends to know what to say (if anything) but it would be nice if they even just said 'let us know if you want to talk about it' or something. Doesn't need to be much does it.

Horton I'm very sorry it didn't work this time. I know you were pretty philosophical about it in the 2WW but then you had a fairly anxious run up to EC and so it's not been an easy month or two for you. Hope you are OK.

Justshaggy I'm pleased to hear you're going to the GP. It's step one and just something you have to get through, but once you are referred then you'll be dealing with people who have more knowledge and expertise and will feel that you are getting somewhere. Meanwhile, don't leave that surgery without a faithful promise to refer you! Camp out if you need to! And yes, turn on the waterworks (I never find it hard anyway on the subject of m/cs and TTC).

Poppy good luck for your blood tests. Let us know how they go and I hope you are ready to start on the business end of things.

Amber many congrats to you. Especially after you had convinced us all you had failed, that is amazing news. Well done and hope you have an early scan booked in do you?

Hi Italian and it's good to hear you are feeling optimistic about adoption. All the best with it.

MM good that all is well in Oz and you have had a good time there. An excellent idea to take all possible drugs with you in case of logistics problems - it would be infuriating to get caught out.

Kiwi, how was the scan yesterday? Hope all was well and you have a pic of the little one. Do stick it up on here if you get the chance, I love to be nosy.

Penguin how's the downregging going? Hope AF has arrived.

Quick question for you more knowledgeable ladies. I'm expecting AF in say 2 weeks. If I'm given the all clear by the m/c specialist later this week, I will be starting my ICSI cycle then. First step is to take the pill for 3 weeks, then I suppose it's downregging for a few weeks? I'm not sure how long it goes on for (min and max). Thing is, I will be on jury service in early July for 2 weeks - which would be starting about day 30-32 of that cycle. I don't want to find that there are clashes between going for scans and having to be available for that.

If I assumed downregging starts on 29 June or so, I should be clear for the important scans and stuff not being needed for 3 weeks after that shouldn't I? Now I type it out it seems OK but I was worrying a bit last night that I might have to put off the cycle again because of this. Grateful for your thoughts.

As I mentioned there, this Thursday we're back to see the specialist to see what the results of all our tests are. Fingers crossed they have found nothing amiss but will let you know when we've seen him.

Cross post Penguin...I don't know the significance of waiting for AF before you start the drugs but as a rule of thumb I suppose they do say you shouldn't count it as AF until it's a red flow needing a pad. If it's only when you wipe, perhaps hold off for 24 hours and see if it develops more.

Penguin I'm not sure about the drugs you're on, but when I've down-regged with Suprecur (bucerelin) I've been told that I must have some bleeding before I'm allowed to move on to the stims. So perhaps its a good thing? However, seems like they would have warned you of this beforehand?

Hi All, well AF still not here and 4 preggo tests done. I have an early scan booked for a couple of weeks time so I should relax a bit more after that if everything contuinues. It feels weird not being on a diet any more! I still feel crampy but the nurse said it might be the progesterone suppositories (I hate them).

I think I may disappear until my scan if that's all right as I am struggling to take it in and check my knickers every 10 minutes so I can't seem to concentrate on anything else. I will return to see how everyone is doing. Fertile vibes and thoughts to all.

Horton, I'm so sorry to hear your news. [hugs]

Good luck Amberc sometimes time out helps you forget a little so see you soon after the scan!!

I had my blood test yesterday and I've down regged!! Hurrah I can start my stimulating drugs tomorrow. Pleased but worried as on IUI I was on 37.5 dose every other day and I developed 3 follicles, on IVF I am starting on 225! So I'm a bit worried that I may over stimulate. Spoke to the nurse who said it should be ok but I could come in for an early scan if I was worried. I've decided not to as think I should trust them perhaps???

was wondering what everyone else had experienced??

Penguin I had a 4 day period on downregging then a gap of 2 days and then 3 days of spotting, but with my drugs I had a blood test to test levels before stimulating so perhaps you could call Guys to ask??

Anyway off now quite pleased that everything is getting underway - fingers crossed for me

Great news babybarrister! Glad you finally got there in the end. However, your comment about your DH cycling it to the clinic worried me - he did make it without mishap, right?

Morning all

Well no one?s asking but it was a productive appointment with the specialist yesterday. There is a problem, but it is treatable. Good news is that both our chromosome tests were completely normal, and my FSH is really low. The tests did show positive for anti-phospholipid antibodies, i.e. clotting issues (sticky blood). As a consequence, it is probable that implantation was too weak and blood flow not good enough to the placenta, hence it did not get well enough established. It does not always result in early miscarriage ? sometimes you get late miscarriage or pre-eclampsia or even stillbirth. So I am extremely pleased they have picked it up.

The treatment for it is to take aspirin and heparin (injections) if and when I get a positive pregnancy test. There?s no reason not to start ICSI whenever we are ready so we plan to do it in a couple of weeks when my next period comes.

It?s odd ? before the appointment I was really hoping they?d find nothing wrong, but I am actually glad to find there was a probable cause for my losses and that now it?s discovered we can do something about it. It was so worth taking this action after two and not waiting for a third m/c.

BB I was just thinking about you the other day and wondering how you were getting on, so I?m pleased to hear you got the sample delivered in the end. Does this mean they are going to freeze it and now you can get started on the egg-growing phase? What a relief it must be to know that now it?s just up to you and much more under your control.

Poppy how is the stimming going so far (only one day I know!) Must feel good to get going on that as it seems like quite a long downregging phase for you.

Amber hang in there, good luck for a sticky one.

Hope everyone has a good long weekend.

Cerubina Hello I'm glad that you got some answers, sometimes it is good to know what it is that is actually going wrong. One of my colleagues at work had the same problem and had injections etc... during her pg and now has two lovely babies after 4 mc's, so I'm glad you now know what can be done . I think unexplained infertility is really infuriating

BB hello I've got confused haven't read the whole thread, what's happening?

I am feeling so tired, is this normal??? I've also got a really sore throat, I think it's due to the nasal spray and when it drips down. Any tips?? Is this normal?

Have a good weekend everyone

Good news Cerubina and glad you finally got some answers, know what the problem is and have a plan to treat it! Are you excited about trying again?

Poppy75, I found that I was exhausted throughout the IVF process. I expect its a combination of the drugs putting your body through all sorts of things, coupled with the worry and stress of it all. Hope you're taking advantage of the long weekend and putting your feet up! Pity you'll have to do your relaxing inside... at least today anyway!

BabyB I'm glad your husband made it to the clinic safely. Losing your hard-won sample through a cycle crash would have been too much to bear!

As for me, I starting down-regging today. Not much to report, but feeling very relaxed about it all. Hopefully that feeling will last...

Hope everyone is having a good - if somewhat rainy - weekend!

babybarrister - the image of your DH cycling madly with sample made me smile. My DH has to repeat his and planning to actually go into the clinic on Tues (in the hope he gets better results if its 'fresher') but he's on a stag this weekend. So I'm a little about the impact of too much drinking on his results (although he promised he wouldn't).

Amber Hang in there! Lots of sticky vibes coming your way

Cerubina I'm glad you have answers. Uncertainty can eat away at your soul and hopefully you'll feel stronger being able to proactively DO something to improve things - extremely good news its treatable! Cerubina - did you get the tests on the NHS or go private? I've had 2MCs and they won't test me until I've had three.

Well, we met with my DH's GP (could not get an appointment with mine despite queuing at the practice door for two days in a row first thing in the morning ). I'm not feeling hopeful - in fact, feeling downright miserable.

He is nice and has said he will refer us to the fertility clinic, but also stressed they have 'criteria' and he wasn't sure they would agree to see us ... and he said we'd know if they would or wouldn't fairly quickly (couple of weeks). He however pointed out that the specialist we saw privately is probably the guy who calls the shots at the fertility clinic anyway.

And when we saw him privately this guy was flat out blunt that we would not get IVF on the NHS, despite me still being only just young enough and neither of us having children. And in spite of him telling us we need to start considering it - so god knows what disqualifies us. He also indicated there were tests the NHS wouldn't give me.

I don't know what I can do next. Go private if we have to but I lost my job recently and we're not in a good place financially at all. Just don't know what to do. I'm 39 and thinking we have no chance.

Oh justshaggy it sounds like a terrible position to be in! But don't give up hope just yet...

On the bright side , it sounds like you will find out how far you can go on the NHS fairly quickly - which is better than waiting around for ages. I'd spend the waiting period doing all the research you can on what the NHS provides in your area (since each area seems to be so different). Then at least you will know what you are entitled to receive and can make a good argument, if it comes to it. In a worst case scenario, perhaps you can at least get some of the tests on the NHS, which would help alleviate the price a bit?

Also, the IVF doctor you saw recommended IVF because you've had MCs, right? Although I'm no fertility expert, that does seem a bit odd (since IVF helps you to conceive, not carry the baby to term) so I wonder if it might be worth getting a second opinion before you go down the private IVF route?

Afraid as an American in the UK, how the NHS functions is still something of a mystery to me. However, I always feel better with as much information as possible. Knowledge is power!

In the meantime, chocolate is comfort, so I'm pass round the chocolate digestives...

Hi ladies. This is my first post after reading everyone else's for a few weeks. Good to find a home for everything we've been going through.

Husband is paraplegic, so IVF with ICSI is the only way for us. He had a TESE last year, and they found excellent swimmers. We were working on our cycle with the NHS (according to NICE, we're entitled to at least one), but our borough decided that we weren't in a special situation and put us on the three year waiting list. We found a clinic that has a special two cycles for the price of one program, we were accepted, and I started the whole shebang in January.

Things were going splendidly, responded very well to all medications, etc. Egg collection on April 11 yielded 17 eggs, 12 mature. 7 fertilized, 2 transferred on April 14th. Positive pregnancy test two weeks later.

That's when the bad news started. Colposcopy mid-cycle, results four weeks later were really bad, with possible early cervical cancer cited. Was already pregnant when consulted with two specialists who told me a cone biopsy would most likely be necessary. In between those appointments, a scan showing one baby with a strong hearbeat. Started bleeding last Saturday, off and on, with some cramping. Went for scan on Tuesday which showed heartbeat again. Second scan on Thursday showed that embryo died, need to have ERPC next week.

So sad this weekend. I need to snap out of it, I know, but as this was my very first pregnancy, the loss of it is so devastating for me. I know I will have ERPC, and then this cone biopsy, which will mean second cycle is going to have to wait a couple of months...

Hi all, I am hoping to start IVF very soon, have no idea what I'm up against. This is all new to me. Concieved naturally after 3 yrs of trying in Feb. Baby stopped just short of my womb and then I miscarried. Doc thinks it's down to scarring from a previous ectopic. Hence IVF to bypass the dodgy bit! I don't know what's involved, I really need to talk to people who have been through this. Can anyone help? Vic x

Welcome to our new joiners!

LissySilver it sounds like you've been through a lot recently - poor you! A number of us on the thread have had MCs, myself included, and I think we'd all agree that its not something you "snap out of". It takes time to come to terms with what's happened. So know that you're entitled to be devastated and take care of yourself.

It might also be a good thing that you have to wait a few months before trying again. It will give you time to come to terms with the MC and also to address your other medical issues (I don't know what a cone biopsy is, but it doesn't sound fun!). Then you can begin a new cycle, relaxed and focused on creating a baby.

Vics32 you've come to the right place. I don't think there is anything about IVF that someone on this thread hasn't either experienced or knows about! So, what do you want to know, apart from the fact that its not really as bad as it first sounds (its not) and you will come through it (you will). Feel free to unload on us!

And how are the old-timers (meaning experience, not age, of course!) doing?

Horton hope you're hanging in there. How are you doing?

Penguin have you down-regged yet? Started your stims? How's it going?

Poppy I hope you're feeling better on your stims... I've been feeling a bit poorly too, but don't think I can blame 3 days of down-regging for it.

Cerubina have you worked out when you'll start your next cycle? And does it clash with jury duty?

So, now that you've got the goods in the freezer, when do you start your cycle BabyB?

And a big wave and some chocolate boobies to Amber, Italian, Idreaminanythingchocolate and anyone else who might be silently following along!

Thanks, MercenaryMom. I had quite a wallow on Saturday...didn't get out of bed all day, and had a fantastic cry. I think until my ERPC, which is scheduled for the 7th, happens, I'll feel quite icky and sad. Hoping to get in earlier and get it over with.

A cone biopsy is when a cone-shaped section of the cervix is removed. 9 times out of 10 it completely removes the offending cells, even early cancer, so I've got a good chance of getting it all. It does, however, weaken the cervix, and I'll probably have a stitch put in in anticipation of my next cycle. Make sure you're vigilant about your smears, ladies!

Despite my sadness, I think there were reasons for my MC...mainly to get myself sorted out so I can be healthy and in a calmer frame of mind for my next cycle (just like you said).

Thanks for the support, and I'm rooting for everyone to have successful cycles.

Hope everyone had a good bank holiday.

MM how is the downregging going? Hope you are finding it alright so far and still managing to keep zen and cool about getting down to it again. Any idea how long you'll be DR for?

Justshaggy hope your DH got back from the stag in one piece. I'm sorry you don't feel you got much reassurance from the doctor, although I suppose getting the referral to the fertility clinic is a good first step. Unfortunately, this process is made up of lots of steps and we need infinite patience and fortitude don't we. MM makes some good points, I think. I cannot work out why the other doctor would have said so categorically that you don't qualify for IVF. Health authorities have their own criteria on age and so on, but you are actually still pretty young and being childless is a major factor that you have on your side for a funded cycle, as far as I understood it anyway. Have you looked up HFEA guidelines and the facts for your local authority yet? I think most do publish something about their criteria so it would be interesting to know what they say.

In answer to your question, I did go privately for my m/c testing. We got the wheels in motion after the second one, knowing that the NHS only refer you after three, but then subsequently had a conversation with my GP where he said he would have referred us given my age (37) and history, so if we'd been prepared to hang on it looks as though we could have done it. But then it not only differs by health authority but by GP I think, it just so happened he was more sympathetic and pro-active than most are. It cost a fortune for the testing so given your circumstances I would guess you won't want to explore that, but let me know if you do want the details of who we went to see.

BB I take it you're off on holiday soon, so have a good time. Where are you going?

Hi Lissy and welcome. Very sorry to hear about your experience, that sounds utterly awful. Like MM I had a m/c earlier this year as well, but to have a cancer scare on top of it...poor you. You must feel upside down at the moment, as either one of those things is a lot to get your head round and deal with.

Hope your OH is supportive and giving you lots of hugs (and vice versa - men do suffer with m/cs too I think, if in a different way). It must be difficult for you caring for him as well, I presume that a lot of the burden of day to day life falls on you so you are carrying a heavy load. Don't expect to get over things within a week, or even months. In my experience, losses take their time to come out. It is probably not what you want to hear, but it could take a long while to feel you are back on an even keel.

I presume from what you say that you have not m/c'd naturally and hence an ERPC is required. Such a shame that you have to wait so long for it, I know that you probably feel you can't begin to heal and recover until you've been through that. Is there anyone available in real life that you can talk this stuff through with? Maybe arranging a session with your IVF clinic's counsellor would be a good idea, just to get your thoughts aired and listened to, and begin to work through things. Please don't try to keep it all in and assume you "should" have moved on before you are ready - the loss of a baby is a real and hugely upsetting event, even when it is so tiny and you have only been pg a short time.

Hi Vics and welcome to you too. Sorry to hear about your ectopic, that is terrible luck. What stage are you at in the process - sounds as if you have just been recommended to pursue it by your GP, is that right? If so then I think you'll need a referral to the clinic to meet with one of the specialists, answer some questions and then they will let you know if they accept you for treatment, what the waiting list is like and what the funding situation is. You may get one go on the NHS or more than one, or none. As Justshaggy is finding out, it's hard to know what you may or may not get.

Once you've been accepted, you get invited to an open evening to hear more about the process - where they go through all the ins and outs in a bit more detail, and if you're happy and they're ready for you, waiting list-wise, then you can start treatment when you like.

I haven't been through the process yet but there are lots of women on here at various stages of it who can answer any question about what it's like. It's worth reading up as well so you know some of the terminology as there are a lot of stages and technical terms and drug names to get on top of! But it's quite fun in a way to become an expert in a new topic, well I think so anyway.

Poppy are you getting more used to the nasal spray now? It's great to hear about your colleague having found the heparin injections worked so well, I hope I can also be so lucky.

I'm feeling a bit concerned about timings for our cycle at the moment. I'm on CD28 at the moment and normally my cycle is about 30 days long, but so far I haven't actually ovulated! I don't know why and what's going on there, but there has definitely been no egg action.

We go on holiday in 12 days' time, in which time I need AF to turn up so that I can go and have my day 2 blood tests done at the clinic, and then I can go on holiday and relax for a couple of weeks knowing that I can come back and start sniffing.

I don't mind if this cycle is anovulatory, in the circumstances, but if AF doesn't show up before we go then you can be damn sure she will the minute we land, and I'll spend the first week with my period being utterly pissed off, and we'll miss the chance to start the treatment for yet another cycle. It just feels typical, given that we have already lost months to the m/c and then waiting for test results - I'm finally completely ready to go and my body is buggering about not playing ball.

Anyone know any sure fire ways to get your period to start? Should I just wear white trousers or something, since my body seems to appreciate sod's law?!