Assisted conception (and the bits in between!) - part 3 - all welcome

[Caitni]

Right ladies, time for a new thread.

And a big welcome to everyone . Here's to many more success stories and healthy pregnancies!

Well spotted Mamachris that the guardian ariticle is from an abstract only - I'll just open the bottle ! Just kidding, but I didn't realise it was quite so flimsy at this stage. Like LL I was starting to question the criteria as well - like how many of the complete abstainers were first time IVF'ers who have the highest sucess rates anyway (I didn't drink at all my first time but subsequent failures weakened my resolve)? It's 'sobering' but not conclusive in my book. However I have decided not to drink this cycle, it's my last try and I've nothing to lose. I think it was harder when I was contemplating a series of cycles and thinking that'll be a whole year without drinking.

Gingerwine I get headaches from the 'suppressant' drugs - sounds like you are on Lupron, I usually take Orgalutran. I found it helped to take it at night and then a couple of panadol. Unfortunately Orgalutran needs to be taken in the morning - so I have no 'sleep' exit now.

Hang in there Nanoo, symptoms are . . . symptoms . . . but of what? It's impossible to tell . . just keep crossing those fingers. It must be hard for you to be away from your Partner at the moment, but you're not alone - we're here!

Thanks so much to you all with your advice on symptom spotting. I promised myself I wouldn't even think about it, as nothing can be done until testing day (next Wednesday is the day the clinic have asked me to do a pee-stick - exactly 2 weeks after ET). But now I know I could get a period before then (I thought the progesterone would keep AF away) I'm terrified of ever going to the loo!!! Doh.

Islegrin - the stimming makes you feel great??!! Surely not

nanoo lol, you got me blindsided... thanks for the laugh, I needed that!

two weeks from tomorrow for FET... waiting waiting waiting, soooo boring!

Morning all.

Also laughing here nanoo at your toiletphobia!

And islegrin - I agree with nanoo. Can't believe you like the stimming part! Good news about date for FET. If I get to that stage we will be at least partly on the 2WW together. What do you have to do to prepare for it? Is it just different injections? Do you have as many scans?

Thankyou all for headache advice. I am now drinking about 3 litres of water and feel I will float away soon! The headache is not so bad and I am feeling a bit more normal (well normal for me!!). It's hard to know how much is real physical symptoms and how much is related to the whole stressful experience. I am normally pretty stoical to be honest and not generally a very anxious person but I have to admit this process is scaring me silly. I worry about what the drugs are doing to me or if they're doing anything.

Ah lottie - litres of wine, those were the days!! How's the boredom going? I like your retail therapy. Lovely little coccoons. Good choice. How on earth did your SIL spend that much on nursery furniture? Your purchases sound more sensible to be honest.

mamachris - I was feeling all sad about the seed heads in your garden when I read your post so don't worry. You are only as mad as me! That's not a great consolation as I'm a bit bonkers at the best of times! I think your consultant sounds pretty sensible to be honest. There are lots of positives. If your reserve is ok and you responded well it means you should respond well again. I can understand why the thought of twins might scare you but putting 2 embies back in would really increase your chances of one baby and if this is your last go I would do that too. If you get lucky with 2 embies at least lottie will be on hand to advise. When do you start cycling again?

mummycat - I think me and my friend will be plotting to keep my DH's beer consumption to a minimum! I'm sure it will be fine. I feel like I need a night out. How is your stimming going?

I must go now. Off for a scan. Will check in later.

gingerwine hope scan went well, and that the headaches improve. glad I'm not the only bonkers one round here!

next baseline around 4th Jan (assuming my cycles follow predicted dates). odd, I have had so many symptoms this month, when it's completely impossible to be pregnant, way more than last month when I was on all those drugs. can you get a delayed reaction?

We already have one ds, and I think twins would be terribly unfair on him, plus I think dp would have a breakdown (quite seriously). It would not be a good outcome for us, and I'm worrying myself silly about it. On the other hand, I think for ds to be an only child would be awful too, and I can't imagine not having another child... I feel very selfish saying this, when I do already have ds, but it's a really strong emotion, difficult to explain.

islegrin FET is coming round quick! keep taking those folic acid, and try and enjoy not (yet) being in the 2ww. I quite enjoyed stimming too, except for the painful swollen ovaries bit. I even enjoyed (in some strange way) the injections... obviously I am very odd

Good to hear you have plans mamachris. I completely understand your concerns re twins. I know if we were lucky enough to even get pregnant it would be quite difficult if there were two! I have 2 DS's from first marriage and I also think twins would be hard on them. On the other hand it would wonderful for my DH who has no biological children at the moment. In fairness the boys both think of him as a dad and regularly tell him that they love him so we are very lucky to have our family as it is even though they are away alternate weekends. I also worry that I am being selfish wanting another child but I don't really feel I have completed my family and I know it would mean so much to my DH. Anyway if we don't try we will always wonder! My rambling doesn't help you with your worries I know, but you are not alone. The truth is that if you got pregnant naturally it could be twins too and you would manage somehow. The main thing I suppose is to talk about it (as I'm sure you have done) and make a decision you are happy with.

My scan was fine. Endometrial lining thickening nicely and I have 6 follicles, 3 on each side. They range in size from 9mm to 14mm. The nurses seemed fairly happy with this (in their 'trying not to get me overly optimistic' way), especially as my AMH was low and I have only had 5 days of stims so far. Next scan is on Monday and possible EC at end of next week. I have started injecting cetrotide now too. my tummy is getting a bit sore! Has anyone else used this one?

gingerwine truly, I always felt great on the stimming part, it's the downregging that bothers me physically.

Right now I'm on doxycycline for a few days and will be again right before ET, and only very small inj of Lupron .1cc everyday, mega-folic acid (new), metformin (which has been since the start of AC) estrogen patches, and baby aspirin (new). Not as many scans this time, they are just trying to build the lining and not produce any folicles (little lupron does that). So they scanned me last week to make sure no mature fols - although there were 8 tiny tiny ones, immature and not a problem. No AF yet, not sure if that's a problem or not - I should call them. I've been getting consistent daily headaches for about a week now, maybe I should drink 3 liters of water too!

I'm so tired of waiting... strangely I'm almost thinking this is like our first cycle with everything working (since the genetic diagnosis) which is kind of sad and kind of hopeful. I just want it to be here already!!! ARGGG! I'm trying to distract myself with thougths of other things. New couch arrives tomorrow, my mum, aunt and new dog arrive in just over a week. But this FET is all I can think about. I have an appt with a genetic counselor soon and another scan next week.

I'm so glad there are at least a couple of crazies out there, I'll keep you company!

Nanoo I hope it's a good sign that you haven't posted today, hopefully you are busy with other things... I'm looking forward to Wednesday!

OK - I've started the darker side of AC/IVF thread, just in case anyone is interested:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/848782-Nearing-the-END-of-the-ROPE-and-still-NOTHING-Giving?rnd=1256 338350512

Hi Girls (waves madly). I'm still here....Day 11 (after ET) just DREADING AF pitching up. DH just left for the US for 10 days so am all alone with my head filling up with "what ifs...". The clinic says no testing til Wed. So Wed it is. Filling my days with a dizzying amount of things for distraction. Still don't feel a single thing. Have gone back to normal life (having hot baths, lifting my mega-heavy toddler) - I just believe I'd be pg. I also can't bear to find out I'm not. Crazy.

Well done gingerwine sounds like you're doing great. What's the centrotide for? And Isle, don't get frustrated now, you're so nearly there. Remember where to you were 5 weeks ago, it's a much better place now :-) May I ask what the baby aspirin is for?

uh-ohhhh you are alone with your thoughts??? Dizzing amounts of distraction sound perfect! Just 4 more days, you can doooooo it!

Baby aspirin is to thin out the blood a little bit to help faciliate implantation and reduce chances of blood clots. It's standard procedure for my doc at this point. (Although that might be std for FET because it didn't appear on any instructions for fresh IVF last time).

I'm better today, I got frustrated yesterday because I feel stagnant and I started thinking this is our LAST CYCLE, so I brainstormed other things we could do with DH last night, it helps if there is a glimmer of hope - even if we decide eventually not to take that route, helps me focus on now instead of making it so epic and final. Kinda like I needed the distraction of thinking of a Consolation prize/Vegas trip while we were in the process of IVF last time, we opted against actually going because we have different priorities, but it still helped during the process to relieve some pressure. It's all about creative coping strategies!

Oops just realised typo in my post - I meant "I just CAN'T believe I'd be pg. But also can't bear to find out I'm not". (why's it always the important words that drop?!!!)

Love the idea of a Vegas trip for distraction. But don't be so pessimistic Isle - don't dwell on this being the last cycle, just think of it as another opportunity to get pg. Just think, you may never have to use any "coping strategies" - am sending you heaps of positive vibes....

Hi all.

nanoo - Sorry you are alone at this time. My advice would be to plan lots of nice meals for yourself, hire some films and once your little one is in bed, pamper yourself. Sounds like you are keeping busy in the day. It's not that long til wednesday. Fingers crossed for you. Stay away AF!!
The cetrotide is to stop me ovulating. I am on short protocol with big dose (450) of menopur and they add cetrotide once there are any follicles of 14mm.

My next scan is tomorrow and I am getting nervous already wondering whats been happening in there.

Isle - So sorry to see you were feeling down. You seem so upbeat on here and you always manage to cheer me up when I'm moaning. I know you will find some great coping strategies. Vegas sounds like a good start. There are so many travelling opportunities that you really can't do with children. I would love to do Peru and Machu Pichu (probably spelt wrong)! Just keep planning and as nanoo says you don't know what will happen this cycle yet.

I so wish I felt great with stimming. The headaches have gone and I feel a bit better but I find the actual injections really bother me. I am almost in tears doing them. Not in pain but because I think I find it hard to cope with the fact that this is what I need to do to have a baby. It's a bit pathetic really especially when so many you have done several cycles. I take my hat off to all of you. I guess I just need to toughen up a bit.

I went to the 40th last night and with the help of my friend and her DH managed to drink no more than half a glass of wine. Success! I needed a night out and I really enjoyed it. Now back to doing not too much and nurturing my 6 follicles!

Hello Everyone, I've been away visiting friends this weekend at the other side of the country so have just been catching up with you all.

MamaChris totally understand your seedhead scattering (((hugs))) to you - be brave. Hope you can get your head around the twin possibility thing. It looks like this may be my only cycle of IVF and I am leaning closer and closer towards having two put in...

Nanoo I'm feeling it with you every step of the way. Have all my fingers and toes crossed too. Why is DH in America is it work? (((hugs))) to you too - sound like you could do with some TLC

Ginger you are just ahead of me with stimming. I get the feeling strange about the injections thing - I too keep thinking, "is this what I need to do? Is this going to work?" It all seems so unreal somehow.

Islegrin Not long now. Glad to hear that you are a little chirpier now, but I can hear your frustration. Take some time out to be still and calm and breathe 1..2..3. and all that crap if you can!!

I am on day 4 of stimming. My first stimming scan is tomorrow. Feeling headachey, tummy is a little sore and also having a little nausea at times - or maybe these are symptoms of stress and anxiety??!!

DH has decided that he wants a whole new career now and is completely disatisfied with all areas of his life. So I am absolutely convinced that the emotional stress I am currently under means that I probably don't have a chance of success with this. Haven't said this to him. The rational side of me is hoping that this is just his reaction to IVF and that he is distancing himself to avoid the pain.

Keep thinking about work Christmas do and wondering if I'll be hiding tiny bump or drowning my sorrows [confused and slightly f*ked up emotion]

Oh yeah - I have a question for you all. How long should DH avoid ejaculation for before EC?

Hi Ladies, been mainly lurking but just popping in to say hello.

LondonLottie how are you doing? I think you're being incredibly brave during what must be such a worrying time. Really hoping that everything's OK with you and the girls and you're managing to keep calm and occupied with internet shopping!

Mummycat I think the recommended time is 3 days. You want lots of swimmers but no stale ones!

Good luck to all the stimmers, hang in there, it's about time for a BFP!

I'm still enjoying the strange calm after the IVF storm, but gearing up to the next stage...

Oh mummycat - you sound like I feel. Big (((hugs))).
Don't know about ejaculation question. DH and I were only talking about that yesterday. Another question for everyone - can we have sex while we are stimming (assuming I feel like it!!)?

Hi again! With thanks to Sooty for the inspiration, I've created a new thread for those for whom IVF isn't going to work. Here it is: Life after IVF

Although I really hope none of you need to join me on it!

Meant to say, MamaChris , I completely understand your seedhead moment - very poignant and very sweet.

Hello all, I am still here, despite the temptation to jump straight over to Bumpless's new thread . . . actually feeling strangely positive, despite the fact that there are gale force winds outside and a black black sky (oh Sydney spring - it's not what people think, there's a westerly wind that blows all through October and I hate it).

Mummycat we are almost in Synch as I am on D4 of stimms too. Also having headaches - which I don't normally get until I start cetrotide/suppressant. Have a terrible feeling it is a withdrawal from alcohol? Is that possible ? I've gone cold turkey before and not noticed anything, but somehow I can't shake the strange feeling of a mild hangover.. . maybe this is just another form of self punishment. . .

Fingers X'd Nanoo . ..

Also Duplo are you out there? How's it going? You are my low responders inspiration . . .

I was a bit surprised at your new thread Islegrin, aren't you feeling more hopeful now you have some answers as to what the problem might have been? I interpreted that information to be a good thing (now it can be treated?). Did I get it wrong?

I hope you swatted your mozzie LL, they can be SO annoying. Aparently they are attracted to the carbon monoxide we breathe out - so a last-ditch-middle-of-the-night-can't-be-arsed strategy can be to just duck your head under the sheet and they 'lose' you.

The Waiting Lounge seems to be filing up - let me see am I right in thinking Islegrin, Gingerwine, Mummcat and myself are all intending to join you Nanoo by end of next week?

Hi girls sorry I have been so quiet, I'm still following the thread but I know I haven't posted for ages

Sorry to hear you're spending all this time in hospital lottie, but I'm also relieved they are looking after you so well. I think it's definitely worth being overly cautious at this point however frustrating it must be to be staying in hospital when there's thousands of other things to do. But on the bright side you get to get a good rest, and you will need plenty of sleep reserves once you're looking after your little girls. and you get to sort out all your shopping now. I love that link you sent by the way, very stylish!

I'm glad you're feeling so positive sootie, that's a very good start to this cycle. I was feeling more positive this cycle thanks to a lovely doctor who didn't treat me as a failure for a change but pointed out all the positive things like the thickness of the lining. It just made the whole experience less stressful than last time round. I can't believe your headaches are alcohol withdrawal, unless you're normally downing a bottle of wine per day .

gingerwine/mummycat I think they told dp not to ejaculate for 48 hrs before the procedure, but sex before then is meant to be good as it keeps the sperm fresh! good excuse anyway!!

Good luck with your scan today mummycat!! What a shame your husband is so down, probably connected to the stress of ivf as you say, but not ideal timing. Try not to let it get to you too much - have you tried explaining to him that you really need him to be there for you atm?

I understand what you mean about the injections gingerwine. I had this feeling after the gift, with 3 cuts to my belly, daily heparin injections and an arsenal of drugs that this could never work because it just seemed such a wrong way of making babies. But unfortunately for some of us this is what it takes - even if it really isn't what we wanted it to be like. Fantastic news about your first scan though, 6 follicles is great (well for someone like me it would be incredible!).

How's it going nanoo? hope your distractions are still suitably distracting. How annoying your dh is abroad during this time, although if he is anything like my dp he would just be making you nervous.

Sorry you're down islegrin, hope you're feeling more positive already. I think you have so much to be positive for, your dr thinks your chances are good and now you are having lots of folic acid too - I so hope this is all you needed to make it work this time round.

I'm glad you're sounding so serene bumpless, I can really sense a lot of relief coming from you. I hope you will soon be able to find a way forward that you will be happy with, I'm sure it takes time to work it out though.

As for me I had my 6 weeks scan 10 days ago and it was good news. they saw the embrio and it had a good heartbeat. Strangely enough I didn't get all emotional or teary about it. for starters all I could see was a tiny blob and somehow I just feel more worried now that I know there is a little someone in there. It is still early days, I'm 8 weeks now and I'm already worried that something will be wrong when i have my 9 wk scan. Also getting quite stressed about swineflu, so much conflicting advice whether to get vaccinated or not. In the UK they are really pushing it, whereas in Germany and Austria there has been much more scepticism about it. When I'm not stressing out I do feel very happy though, it's all up and down at the moment. Starting to feel queasy and repelled by all sorts of food now too, hope that's a good sign.

All the best to everyone who's cycling at the moment, my thoughts are with you!!

Sooty glad to hear you sounding positive - I second Lottie about the caffeine - it's the only thing that causes me severe headaches (I still wince when I remember giving up caffeine years ago and the two weeks of headaches I suffered - giving up smoking was physically far easier for me!).

Isle sorry to read you've been down, especially as the genetic diagnosis hopefully means that your chances will improve with this FET. I really am hoping that it's the key to a successful pregnancy for you

Nanoo keeping my fingers tightly crossed for good news for you!

Lottie really hope you get to go home soon - you must be up the walls (though glad the mozzie didn't eat you alive!).

Duplo I'm very happy to hear things are going well with you - early pregnancy is such an anxious time, compounded by the effort it took you to get pregnant. I felt similar after our 7 week scan - looked more like an astronaut than a baby - but a strong heartbeat is v v positive. And re the swine flu, I've tried to read up on it and the significant risk seems to be the elevated temperature. I've taken to carrying parecetemol (sp?) around, so that I can pop a couple if I feel like I'm getting an elevated temp. Haven't had to do this yet, but my husband had it when I was 7 weeks and I currently have two colleagues who sit on my bank of desks who are off with it at the moment so just being cautious!

Ginger I also understand the sadness at what it takes for us to have our babies - I had mostly processed this before treatment (my then accupuncturist must have thought I was a mentalist...I cried for nearly 2 hours of our 2.5 hour initial
consultation ) but the actual physical process brought it back up a bit. Hope today's scan shows good news xx

Mummycat good luck to you for today's scan as well. We were told 2-3 days before EC for my DH.

Big waves to everyone I've not mentioned by name and good luck to all the stimmers.

I wanted to share this article from yesterday's Observer Woman magazine. I hadn't heard of this woman, and I was quite taken with it. She sounds like less of a crank than others in the fertility industry. I was particularly interested in her ability to improve sperm issues, since everything else I've come across mainly says things like sperm counts can't be improved.

You guys are amazing. Thank you for crossing everything!! It's Monday. So I guess in 48 hours I'll know either way. Trying not to think of either outcome, but am still feeling so doubtful (complete lack of symptoms, not even PMT). Whenever I've got pg before (both the successful one and the mc), in addition to the usual sore boobs, metallically taste in mouth etc.. I've always hated tea. Normally I love a cuppa (). But pg hormones put me right off. Today I desperately tried to dislike tea. I made a cuppa and looked at it. And really wanted it. Doh.

Ginger your post really struck a cord with me - so sad what can go through your head just as you hold the needle above the skin.

Hi Bumpless again - really good you're feeling positive - what is the next stage you are gearing up for?

Duplo thanks for coming back to post - please keep it going, you're giving us all hope :-) A strong heartbeat is all you need at this stage - keep positive!!

Catni I have actually been to see Dr Zhai - I went literally the month I conceived DS. DS was conceived following ovarian drilling, so Dr Zhai didn't have time to do anything except send DH and I off for tests. The article makes her sound amazing, and now I regret not going back to her this time. I guess I was looking for a quick fix (being 38, and desperately wanting a sibling for DS) and was too impatient to do TCM. Really silly of me, considering the quick fix hasn't been quick at all!!!!

Oh, quick thought, LL thanks so much for your encouragement about getting through Day 11 (I must have gone to the loo about 20 times in just the first hour to check and double check - it was a nightmare!). Does anyone know the science behind the progesterone pessaries?? I thought that AF was triggered by a fall in progesterone levels (because if you're pg progesterone stays high, hence no lining shedding and no AF)....so surely it would be difficult for AF to come while using the pessaries? I'm just thinking AF's only staying away because of the drugs, as soon as I stop AF will show up. Is that how it (should) work?