Assisted conception (and the bits in between!) - part 3 - all welcome

[Caitni]

Right ladies, time for a new thread.

And a big welcome to everyone . Here's to many more success stories and healthy pregnancies!

Oh dear nanoo - Sorry to hear that your DH lost the plot last night. This is all so stressful for both partners. Sounds like he really needed to let off steam!! I hope he comes home later in a better mood. I think your friend is right. Keep talking. I'm sure that's the best way to be there for each other. Sorry he made you cry. Sending you cyber hugs! And day 7 (I'm not experienced enough to know if that's right but it makes sense to me!) - fantastic. You are half way through the 2WW. Maybe you should plan some distraction for you and DH together. Anything to keep you both busy.

mummycat - Shame about the needle phobia. Glad your DH is helping out though. Great news about starting stimming.

Islegrin - I think it's good you have a possible reason that things haven't worked. Now you can do something about it. It's a shame they don't test us all for all these things at the start really but that would only make it even more expensive I suppose! I think your FET may be around the time my ET if all goes to plan here. We could be on the 2WW together.

londonlottie - Sorry to hear you are having a rough time. I know it must be really frustrating but just try and relax and stay in bed if that's what's advised. Really the only thing you need to focus on is looking after yourself and your babies. Every week that goes by those girls are stronger and stronger. Rest rest rest! Oh and surf the internet etc.. If it's any consolation I would be going mad not being able to unpack but it's not a priority at the moment. Take care

Sooty - Juat reading about your friend made me cross for you. TBH it sounds as though he doesn't really know what he's talking about. I have very little belief in homeopathy and I expect they were just lucky. You are not to blame for your infertility and anyone who really understands what it's all about knows that.

I've not had a great two weeks here. Just struggling with the whole thing I think, but now we are back on track and ready to give it a go. I had my first scan this morning and my injection teach. So I am officially stimming. (Am on high dose short protocol). I have another scan booked for Friday so I am just wondering what I can do to help those follicles grow! I'm drinking lots of water and trying to eat lots of protein and rest as much as possible. And thinking eggy thoughts!!! My major head ache at the moment is sorting out childcare for egg collection. It might be at half term so the friends who know what we're doing will be away, my parents are abroad and my DH's parents are too far away! The nurse said this morning that people have brought children with them as I will have my own room and my DH could look after them while I am having it done then after I am awake and feeling OK he would go and do his bit! I would like to avoid this to be honest. Not sure how I would explain what we were doing to an inquisitive 9 year old!! I'm more worried about the childcare than the injections at the moment!!
Like you nanoo - I keep thinking I should be trying to be calm and relaxed!! It's not easy is it?

Hello.
Horton - I don't think we've met. WELL DONE. You give me hope that it is possible I could conceive naturally after all. My second IVF failed 3 weeks ago. Early this morning I woke up at 4.45am. I love my sleep but could not get back to sleep. Then DH's alarm went off at 6.00am. Then I managed to get a bit of sleep. When my alarm went off at 7.00am I suddenly needed to cry. Must be hormones and sadness all mixed up. I am so encouraged that you fell PG naturally. You must be thrilled and rightly so. CONGRATS.

Poor LLottie. You don't sound like you're having much fun. Call in those favours you are owed and get someone to do the unpacking for you. Take care of yourself and let the doctors do the thinking and worrying. I am stunned that you're already 30 weeks!! I bet you've noticed every single day and I bet it seems you've been PG forever already. Hang on in there. You want the babies to be lovely and well when they arrive, so be a good patient! Hope you don't think I'm being patronising. I mean it kindly.

I've just read 2 weeks worth of posts as i've not felt able to come on here. I didn't want to feel jealous of the BFPs. I just want someone with a crystal ball to tell me that I will have a baby/child in the future..... if they could also tell me when that would help me a great deal!!!! LOL

Oh KC11 - completely understand the dream of the crystal ball, because if you knew in the future a DC would be here, right now you could just relax and enjoy living in the present. I hate wishing my life away as I count up cycles and days. And your heartbreak this am sounds v sad - I really feel for you. Have you thought about what next? It always help to have hope....

Thanks LL for the advise about listening. Have just received a 20 para email from him explaining his wobble - that's gonna take a lot of listening!!! At least this is helping the 2ww - complete distraction. How did you persuade your DH to see a therapist? Did you go with him?

Oh nanoo how awful, pregnancy (or threat of it) does bring out some very extreme emotions in men. Good luck and although I would recommend seeing a therapist too, make sure it is a type of therapy that is suitable. My father had terrible rages when my mother was pregnant and he went off to a Jungian therapist for five years (it was the sixties and all the rage) and I don't think it did him any good. I myself have seen a pyscho therapist at times which I found useful, in fact I have been thinking about seeing her again in order to get myself out of your friends aptly described 'dark room' of IVF. Good luck, but yes at least it is a distraction . . . and we all need those on the 2WW.

Good to see you back KC11, it's hard after a bad cycle, but it's nice to come back too and know we are all in it together. Since returning to Australia a couple we know - who are ten years older - who also went through IVF ages ago, have been very sweet to us, even though I know they only know about our troubles through the grapevine. It's strange but there is a gentleness towards us, in particualar me that is quite touching and yet very discreet. Makes you realise how much shared experience is the basis of so much friendship - it's almost unconcious but it's there. And when doing IVF it is hard to find - which is why I have found this thread so helpful.

As to my homoepath friend - well, I got DP to read my email, and he said it was fine. I don't quite feel ready to bridge the gap at the moment though. Maybe next year when all this is behind us . . . maybe I just don't want to hear about their pregnancy? Who knows . . .

LL how are you going? Do you still have to stay 2 weeks? Have you rung anyone to come and visit? I spent 6 weeks in hospital as a child and I remember being really bored, and waiting everyday from my visit from my mum or dad. One day neither could come (my little brother and sister were sick) and it nearly broke my heart! My little seven year old self just fell apart without that event in the day. Obviously your coping mechanisms are going to be much more highly developed, but don't feel to ashamed to phone a friend and demand a visit if you are feeling down . . .

That's great LL! How exciting. Get shopping for your little ones - and really really enjoy :-) You deserve it, what a journey you've had til now!!!

Thanks so much to all for the advice on seeing a therapist and choosing the right one (Sooty, your poor Mum - all that therapy for your Dad and no result). DH has suggested seeing the counsellor at the IVF clinic, but something tells me we need more than just counselling about IVF. Will start looking around (any ideas where to start?) and bring the subject up with DH slowly......

nanoo sounds like maybe your DH has been trying to hold it all in and has now just erupted. As you know mine has been all over the place so I can empathise. I agree with LL that him wanting to go to the counsellor at the clinic is very positive. Many, men wouldn't even admit that anything is wrong, yet he recognises that it is this which is upsetting him. Good luck

nanoo - Fantastic that your DH wants to speak to a counsellor. Just admitting that he wants to is a big positive step. I'm sure that the clinic counsellor is a good place to start and if he finds it helpful he could always look for others later, and as LL said they may even be able to suggest one if they feel counselling beyond the scope of the ivf clinic services. It all sounds a lot better than throwing his dinner accross the room in any case. How are you today?

londonlottie - you sound like you are coping well with your enforced rest. Glad your DH and friends are all rallying round. Just think of all the internet shopping you can do!

KC11 - I would so love a crystal ball. That would be so helpful to all of us. It's the not knowing that is hard to deal with isn't it? Nice to see you back here. Have you had a follow up appointment? What are your plans?

Hi to everyone else I've forgotten.

Two days of injections done here and it's going ok. I do feel a bit emotional but I think that's more to do with the whole thing. I have a question ladies. We are going to a friends 40th at the weekend. Am I allowed to have one glass of wine do you think or should I have none at all? Only one couple who will be there will know what we are up to. We are planning on carefully switching drinks around or I will claim to have a headache or something. I'm not good at lying but I think we'll have to. Any advice gratefully received.

ladies
just popping on to see how everyone is doing before my body shuts down for some sleep.

Will try and catch up! -- LL - take it easy!

You question is very apt Gingerwine as I have just read on the Guardian that drinking has a significant effect on IVF - something like 26% from a new Harvard study if you both drink even moderately!

Makes me feel terrible as we have never really given up drinking completely. I have always tried to keep it very moderate when cycling, but now I wish I'd taken more notice. . . still having said that it is only one study, and previous studies have suggested there is no great link. My clinic just recommends moderation . . . but I know what you mean about it being tricky to hide. Driving is always a good exscuse - I usually volunteer when stimming.

Hmm, well AF came today and heading into the clinic tomorrow for LAST cycle. Feeling very strange about it all. Also the timing is tricky as EC will be around the time of my last tutorial - can't really miss it - will just have to cross my fingers it doesn't happen that day - or will have to struggle in afterwards . . . might have to ask them to go light on the pethadine . .

That was very topical of me wasn't it? It is a nightmare all this advice. I much preferred reading the Zoe Williams article lottie, thank you.

Unfortunately driving is not a usable excuse as there is no need to drive. If I said I was driving it would cause even more suspicion. My friend has offered to drink my drinks for me so she could end up plastered! At the moment I seem to have a horrible headache so I don't want any wine anyway. So I need some ideas for drinks which look like the real thing but are not. Gin and Tonic is easy but what looks like white wine? More of an issue is my DH who doesn't drink much at all generally but on a night out would normally have a few beers. He is not happy about avoiding it. He didn't get much sympathy from me as I am just getting to grips with injections and am feeling a bit overwhelmed by it all.

Is a horrible headache normal for a few days of stimming with menopur?

Sooty - Really rooting for you on your last cycle. I know it's hard but try not to stress about EC yet. We have timing problems too but I am trying to put them to one side and concentrate on eggs for now. Are you on menopur like me or something else I haven't heard of yet?

Hope everyones ok today. Hello again flibberty.

GW

Thanks Sooty LL and MummyCat being so positive about DH and possible appointment at clinic counsellor. Am currently taking a few days out in the countryside at my parents' place - thought a bit of space between us would do us good. This morning I've started getting really slight period pains. Bit scary. It's only been a week since ET. I'm trying not to read too much into it - but does anyone know if it's possible to get your period while still taking the progesterone? I thought that during the 2ww I wouldn't start my period whether I'm pg or not, because the drugs (should be ) keeping my progesterone levels up. Or is it still possible that my period will start? God, not sure I'm ready for a result yet. And certainly not that one

Hi Gingerwine, try not to worry too much about it. Most people won't even notice you not taking sips. V kind friend though! I guess I'd also have to ask if it matters if there is "suspicion" - who would be concerned about it anyway? You could turn up a little later than planned so everyone is fairly tipsy anyway so wouldn't notice. Or persuade your DH to say he's on antibiotics?? Flat coke can look like red wine...if that helps?!

Sooty how exciting to start a new cycle - but a bit difficult for you if you feel it's your last. I guess you just gotta give it everything you've got - here comes lots of positive vibes.....

Gingerwine just saw you're stimming with Menopur - I also had a headache my first couple of days on Menopur (I never get headaches) and upped the water intake and that sorted it. By upped the water intake I was drinking at least 2.5 to 3 litres a day during stimming...good luck with it - wishing you juicy follicles and lovely healthy eggs

Interesting to read that Guardian article this morning though much prefer the Zoe Williams one! I cut out drinking during stimming but did have the odd drink during the downreg weeks (including one night of proper drunkeness ). And I agree that it's a PITA to come up with excuses...why can't people just accept that soft drinks are OK without suspecting motives (and I come from Ireland where people who don't drink are automatically assumed to be recovering alcoholics - double ).

Nanoo I agree with Lottie about the pain - not much to know at this stage so I'm just hoping you get good news. Enjoy your time out in the countryside xx

Thanks girls - to be honest I barely know whether it's period pains or not (I don't have a natural cycle so I don't get period pains!!). Maybe my jeans are too tight today - been eating SO much protein to try and improve my chances. I'm using the prog pessaries, but so far have felt nothing - zip - they haven't had an affect on my mood or given me sore boobs. I still feel completely normal (except for these new tummy feelings). Not pg at all.

Oh LL I'm dreading Day 11, because that's when I got a period when I last took FSH drugs (it wasn't an IVF cycle, but still I'm guessing the same thing could happen). Don't you think it's so much worse to find out it's failed by AF's arrival? It seems so brutal.

nanoo - I have no experience yet but hang in there and try to stay positive. It sounds like it is a fairly common symptom so try not to be too down. I hope the time away and space helps. And yes I think I'll drink sips and hope everyone else is so tiddly they don't notice.

Thanks caitni - I have to say the headaches were worrying me a bit even though I know it is a possible side effect. It helps to hear someone say they had it too though. I will drink even more. Only managiing 2 litres a day at the moment. Of water that is - not talking about wine again!!

I may have my childcare problems sorted for EC. Hooray! A wonderful friend has offered to have them. What a weight off my mind!

lottie - how's the shopping going?

LL those cocoons are so cute! Good for you - you need the retail therapy at the moment.

Ginger thanks for bringing up the drink question. I hadn't really thought about it too much. TBH I only have the odd glass of wine now and again - maybe every couple of weeks or so, so it's not such a problem. We are seeing friends at the weekend though and would normally get through a few bottles with them, but they know our situ and so it will be fine. Told my friend today that we shouldn't drink and she is going to dicreetly make sure that DH doesn't have too much without him realising! . It's great when girlies plot together against men. Enjoy your party - I'm sure you'll think of something - could have orange juice and pretend it has vodka in it or lemonade and pretend it has Archers in it if necessary.

Caitni the recovering alcoholics comment made me LOL. Thanks for the advice on headaches during stimming and period pains during 2WW. I'm taking it all on board. I start stimming tomorrow and have been advised to have 2.5 litres a day. So I practised today and have managed it and then some. Down reg has been making me headachey so am wondering what Stim will add to that!

Nanoo enjoy the countryside and hang on in there. With DD (using Clomid) I had plenty of period like pains and stressful times and sleepless nights during the 2WW. I held off testing till I was a week late too - God only knows how. Anyway AF and pg symptoms are so similar it's silly. LL's comments about false hope are spot on. Baby dust and embie glue to you xx

Good luck Sooty and don't beat yourself up about the drink thing as you say, it is only one study after all.

hey there. I've been staying away for a while, trying to get my head together. We went for the "failed cycle" consultation today, and he basically said, yep, nothing wrong with ovarian reserve, lots of eggs, no idea why you had such a high number of good quality embryos which then turned into an almost failed blastocyst culture. What he did was persuade us to go for a day 2, 2 embryo transfer this time (which will be our last). The thought of twins is really scaring me, but the big question is whether we want a baby more than we don't want twins?

I went a bit crazy after that. Was out in the garden, tidying up and dead-heading (in the rain!) and decided I couldn't let any of the seedheads go to waste, so spent about an hour carefully picking out every seed and sprinkling round the garden, all the time thinking "you crazy woman - these dead plants don't care if they have babies!". but I did it anyway... oh dear

nanoo it's so hard not to over-interpret every little thing, but really that's all it is - over-interpretation. what I noticed the first natural cycle after a series of IUI cycles was how hyper-aware I suddenly was of my body, noticing things that I had interpreted as symptoms the month before, and couldn't possibly be now. Just hang in there. I found the second week hardest every time, but you're over halfway, well done.

ll I think sheepskin fabulous for babies, and very worth it

gingerwine my standard excuse is antibiotics (people tend not to ask what the infection is, and if they do you can always just look a little embarrassed and say you'd rather not say, nothing major).

Caitni that Guardian article is annoying the hell out of me. I'd like to be able to read the original paper to come to my own informed view, but the paper isn't yet published - the article is based on the abstract of a conference talk. So we don't have enough information to assess the validity of the science, just enough to get lots of journalists excited. And note how different journalists get excited about different bits - the telegraph claims white wine (rather than alcohol) is the culprit!

islegrin, it may not feel it, but I think this is great news - it means there is something you can change which will make this cycle more likely to work that any others before. good luck!

mamachris you are quite right about symptom spotting, I've trained myself now to think "doesn't mean shite" whenever a twinge happened. it helps to keep my maddness in check. And thanks for the wise words, I'm starting to accept the results as a good thing - it just took a few "cloudy days" to do that.

I get headaches on the downregging, but the stimming makes me feel great! Unfortunately this cycle = no stimming, just lining building. So I'm not sure how I'll feel. So far 5 days in a row with headaches, ugh!

nanoo I'm anxiously reading all of your news for progress and updates. Like you, I can't wait to find out your results!

LL I also hate false hope! (but then you knew that already) are you taking the girls camping? What do you use the cocoons for? I agree, totally adorable!!!