Assisted conception (and the bits in between!) - part 3 - all welcome

[Caitni]

Right ladies, time for a new thread.

And a big welcome to everyone . Here's to many more success stories and healthy pregnancies!

I remember Bert and Ernie islegrin

Phoned up today to find out about tomorrow's transfer, to be told that the 9 lovely little embyros from yesterday are only 3 today. A bit of a shock - having had 9 fertilised and keep dividing till day 3, I'd started to get cocky about having enough to put some in the freezer.

Still, transfer booked for tomorrow morning, although I need to phone up first thing to check one survived the night. Also a bit worried because I feel like I'm due on any minute (it's about 4 weeks since last period and I'm normally regular as clockwork). Keeping everything crossed and keeping busy.

I think that patch of "hair" on top of Bert is DEFINITELY at toupe! Whew, glad to hear my cultural remark wasn't taken as if that's what we were intending to name the little ones! My DH has a GREAT sense of humor, it really helps keep me sane.

Today when I got left the doc's office I was deflated - because they didn't really offer any hope or comfort either way. They just matter of factly said - we can't tell anything until next week. My symptom spotting didn't impress them at all... and I've been working so hard at it!

I know, I know, I KNOW! But I just can't help but think about all the possibilities, it's so exciting and maddening. Magically my husband came to my office to have lunch with me and he made me laugh so hard it took away all of my deflated feelings and put me right back on track. His plan for next Friday was to have the nurse call us at a set time when we could be together to hear the news - I was rather in shock because I just ASSUMED I would find out first then tell him over lunch! THEN he had the audacity to run over scenarios in which the nurse would call him first and then he would have several people in his office get me on the phone and taunt me with "Hi isle, I know something you don't know." HA HA HA That is something my DH would DEFINITELY do! There is NO WAY I'm letting that happen, though - don't worry ladies, I'm no pushover! Completely lightened my mood, he is wonderful for that! Also we talked about using my drafting table (4ft x 6ft) as the changing table - perfect for twins or singles and it will even tilt for easy access!

Wonderful day here in bonker-ville!

MamaChris don't worry at all about being cocky - 3 to go to blasts is fantastic! The chances that the one they put back in will take is really good now! Plus - if you only have one tucked back in can't they freeze the other one or two left? (I don't know much about day 5 transfers - LL knows more). Tomorrow will go so smoothly and then you can be bonkers with me! Big hugs, everything will be fine!

Revision: Today when I got left the doc's office...

Well, we had 1 blastocyst transferred yesterday

There were 4 more embryos which were not quite blastocysts, but might still progress, and if they do they will go in the freezer today. so now 9 days till the test...

Am sending positive healthy growth thoughts to my little blast and to Bert and Ernie

Hi everyone. sorry i've been so quiet. Had 2 embroys transferred on Sat 12 Sept. In the two week wait.

islegrin Hope you are feeling OK. I hoep your transfer went well. I did take three days off work and the weekend and all i did was stay at home with the TV and a couple of books and lots of cushions (to keep belly warm). I've read that Traditional Chinese Medicine says that a woman should keep her abdomen warm to nurture a baby/embryo and so that it is not allowed to become cold. I'm hoping. I'm also eating lots of sunflower seeds and pumpkin seeds and loads of types of nuts. they are supposed to be good for you, fibre and protein. Also I've been eating hard boiled eggs and omelettes quite a bit (protein again). I think I might be trying too hard but at least I know I'm giving my all.

Hey to everyone i've not mentioned.

Oh. Apologies in advance for TOO MUCH INFORMATION - but i really need to ask.... does anyone else have a leaking of water the morning after using progesterone vaginal gel? It really freaks you out as it feels like AF. Then when you get yourself to a loo you realise it was white not red. Sorry for TMI. Hope someone can reassure me.

oooh it's getting very exciting in here. Good luck KC11 Islegrin and MamaChris.

Any advice on acupuncture? what's the theory? Whe is best to have it done etc.?

I seem to remember from when I gave acupuncture a go last summer, that they recommend about 6 sessions, all the way through. Some to encourage blood flow to the ovaries and then a couple to encourage the lining of the womb to thicken. It sounds like Ian the acu guy (I cannot remember who mentioned him on here) is really worth seeing.

I really need a crystal ball. I need to know if i'm pregnant. I have to test on sat and there's a family party in the evening. I can't walk in there and have all the females ask me if i've got any news. My mum has obviously been talking to her sister and s-in-law about my second IVF and they've almost certainly told there daughters and daughters in law (two of them texted me last week to say "hope your treatment is going ok"). I really want to be able to say yes, i'm pregnant but it will be so early if i am that i'll feel like i'll jinx it. help. I know my mum means well. She's phoned me every day since the egg collection just to check that i'm not in tears because it's failed. I really really really want this cycyle to work. Please can you remind me that I have a very good chance with two grade 1 4-cell embryos that were put back on day 2.

MamaChris Best of luck! Glad to hear your blast is back where it belongs - stick sticky stick to you! And I'm happy to hear there was still some potential for freezer action. One step at a time, one step!

KC11 So glad your back and just during the worst part of it: the last week of wait! Agreed with the (TMI) progesterone leakage, although mine is clear. You have a very good chance of being updifted, good quality embies on day 2 to snuggle in! Keep your chin up and just try to distract yourself. You have to be positive whilst I can roll around the floor in agony not knowing where that crystal ball is and not knowing how I'll make it to Friday!!! One of us has got to be strong!

My DH worked all weekend, leaving me to obsess alone, good for him, actually.

I really need to find something to take my mind off of this potential babyfail. Oh, that's right I've got WORK today!!!

xx

OK - I feel like I have to admit it... I've been POAS, even though everyone has told me not to...

I feel it's my constitutional right to be an idiot if I want!!! But consequentially it has brought home the fact that this whole attempt may end like all the rest for the past 4.5 years - BFN. I'm on day 7 post transfer, so HCG won't be high enough to trigger the postitive result yet.

I think it's good to get a dose of reality, because I've had my head in the clouds. The odds haven't changed but I'm working on how I'll handle bad news if it comes on Friday. At least I can expect it.

OK - right, now all of you line up to slap me in the face... ONE AT A TIME, PLEASE!!!

Love to all,
isle

Oh Iselgrin. I'm with you. I haven't done the deed, but I have been thinking about POAS already, and I had the transfer like a week after you or something! You know it's dumb, but you can't resist because the tiny tiny chance of a positive would be so lovely...

I try and enjoy the not knowing. Like Shroedinger's cat, if I can't see the BFN, I can still believe for another week I am pg. (Nuts or what?)

Anyway, this one has to work for us - nothing made it to the freezer, so no second chances. But the one they managed to transfer was only grade 1 (out of 4). I'm trying hard hard hard to stay positive.

KC11 you have 2 embryos right where they should be. That's twice as many eggs as in an average cycle, both past the first two big hurdles - fertilising and then starting to divide. Nothing's certain, but you're already way further than any woman TTCing naturally, and that's the whole point of IVF, right?

Don't envy you Saturday though, that sounds tough. Can you tell your mum your news in the day, and ask her to spread it round together with a warning "please please please, do not mention this to KC11 directly - she needs to have a Saturday night off from thinking about this"?

Good luck KC, re family, my tactic is to tell them all that the drugs can extend your cycle so it's not conclusive even if AF is late. I also keep any tests to myself. It's just too hard dealing with other people's expectations on those last few days. I try to be vague and inconclusive and they generally get the message.

Good luck to you all on the 2WW. It made me smile this morning to think that in some ways I'm glad I'm not on it - it is SOOOO stressful. Ofcourse rationally I would rather be having kittens like the rest of you, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.

I am taking October off as my Dr is away over the key period. Then we are going to try again late Oct/Nov. This is going to be our last cycle as I will be 41 in December and I have decided that is my cut off date. I feel alternately desperate and excited to be moving on.

Hello everyone, and a wave to all my fellow 2wwers: islegrin, kc11, mamachris - did I forget anyone?? Let's try and stay calm together.

I'm feeling distinctly unpregnant, no twinges or other funnies. I've been having stomach cramps, but I always get them as af is approaching. The only strange thing is that I have been sleeping really badly the last few days, always waking up boiling hot. But with the cocktail of drugs I'm on it's probably just a side effect. They told me to test 18 days after the gift - that's a joke, right?? Will probably be cheeky and test friday or saturday. I have a yoga workshop booked on saturday and want to know before if I have to be careful or not. Although I'm not too hopeful, thanks to my poor response.. I know I should try and be positive, sometimes I manage but then I feel like I'm just fooling myself.

That family party sounds quite stressful, KC11. It's nice of your mum that she's so involved but it makes it very hard for you. Couldn't you just tell them it's still too early to know? with two great embrios you have good chances that it will be positive news anyway, but I understand that you would not want to tell that early on.

I know what it's like islegrin, i have been tempted to test early, in fact I will probably test early too but not for a few days. it's just too bloody hard not knowing for two weeks isn't it? first you have all these scans to tell you exactly what's going on in your body and now - nothing.. when is your official testing day?

I really hope I won't mess up Ian's success rate lottie, I went to see him with this cycle and after my treatment during stimming my lining went from dodgy to really good in two days so he really knows what he's doing, but I know I'm not an easy case...I went to check the poor responders on fertilityfriends and it is just too depressing, nobody ever seems to get pg on there.

sorry to be so doom and gloom at the moment it's probably just because I'm hungry. When my stomach is grumbling I always get grumpy.

Just found this funny article for my fellow TWWaiters: More later...xx isle

14 Things to Do when 14 Days Seem Like Forever, by Lynn Steen

Please note that this is a humourous article and is not intended as advice.

As any woman who is trying to get pregnant can tell you, the two weeks from ovulation to the due date for your next period are pure torture. You promise yourself you?ll just wait it out, distract yourself with other activities and you won?t even THINK about taking a pregnancy test until you?re at least a day overdue. Then something happens ? your breasts start hurting in a slightly different way than they did before, you get slightly nauseous, you have some spotting, or nothing happens, but you find yourself waking up wishing you could go to sleep again so that it would be another day closer to knowing. You can?t think, you can?t sleep, you can?t work, and you start taking HPT?s days before they are even possibly meaningful. You are deep in the abyss of THE TWO-WEEK-WAIT!

In my opinion, it?s no use advising women to stop obsessing, it?s impossible. Instead, I give you a list of more productive ways to obsess. Please note, however, that there is a limit that each woman must define for herself, between indulging in some baby daydreaming and going overboard. I?ve included some examples below:

1. Take a walk around your neighborhood and figure out what will be the best route for strolls with the baby. Find areas with nice pavements and easy curbs. Go ahead and daydream. But do NOT buy a stroller for the dog.

1. Clean out your wardrobe to make room for the maternity stuff you?ll be buying soon. Try on anything you haven?t worn for six months. Yes, if you wish, you may put a pillow in your undies to see what will work as maternity wear. But taking a picture of yourself like that is going too far.

1. Start a journal. Write down everything you?re feeling. It will be a great opening chapter for your child?s baby book. If you can?t put your feelings into words, draw something; try to create a symbol that expresses the frustration you?re feeling. Don?t get that symbol tattooed on your ankle.

1. Plant a hope garden. Or a hope rosebush. Or a hope citrus tree. You want to grow something inside of you, well start by growing something outside of you. Nurture it. Feed it. Give it water. Talk to it. But do not send out birth announcements.

1. Get better at photography. Really learn how to work all the buttons and settings on your camera. Experiment! If you have a digital camera, get all the downloading and editing stuff worked out. You will be well prepared once you have a baby, and will be able to get some great shots and get them emailed to your family before the child?s graduation. Do not take photos of your cervical mucous, even if Toni Weschler begs you.

1. Make an appeal to the committee meeting going on inside you. Sperm, egg, uterus, corpus luteum, progesterone ? they are in there either making a baby or not. Treat them like any other unruly committee you?ve ever addressed. Yes that?s right, go ahead and talk to them. Put your hands on your stomach and tell them how much you respect them. Make your best argument in favor of a baby, and then let them decide. It?s out of your hands. Addressing the committee within earshot of normal people is not recommended.

1. Paint your toenails. Imagine how difficult this will be when you are pregnant. Go shopping for the perfect pink and blue nail polish in preparation for a celebration polish. Alternating colors on the day you find out you?re pregnant, or a single color for the day you find out the baby?s sex. Don?t be tempted to paint a cycle day countdown on your big toes.

1. Make a cup of herbal tea. It is a nice ritual: boiling the water, adding the tea leaves, pouring into a nice china cup, adding some milk or sugar, sipping peacefully. Ahhhh. There?s nothing that a nice cup of tea won?t help. Yeah right. Well it does kill a little bit of time.

1. Swim laps. Think about the sperm and how they need to swim to your egg. Imagine that you are a sperm, the end of the pool is the egg, then GO, GO, GO! Don?t wear a tail or anything. Just imagine it quietly.

10. Make lists. List all the people you will tell when you get pregnant, and in what order. List all the little jobs you need to get done instead of obsessing about this 2WW! List all the healthy activities you intend to do this week. List all the girl and boy names you like. Lists are helpful for all sorts of things, most of all for passing time rather than actually doing something.

11. Create a fertility dance. Choose whatever music speaks to your soul and make up a dance routine as a prayer to the universe for the growth of an embryo. Move your hips, rotate your belly, let your arms flow ? but close the curtains.

12. Prepare a folic acid feast. Cream of broccoli soup as an entree, followed by spinach lasagne, enriched whole grain garlic bread and frozen orange juice sorbet for dessert. Dedicate the meal to your baby-to-be. Just don?t set a highchair at the table in his or her honor.

13. Delegate the burden of the two-week wait. Clearly someone has to worry constantly during this time, but does it have to be you? Divide the days up among your best friends and closest family. On their assigned day they are required to think, wonder, and worry all day about whether you are pregnant or not. At the end of the day they have to call or send you email describing how agonizing it was. Also they have to report to you if they had any ?symptoms,? such as sore breasts, excessive urination, nausea, bleeding, fatigue? you will be surprised how many people, male and female, have early pregnancy symptoms if they just look for them.

14. Write a list of 14 things to do during the Two-Week Wait and post it to the internet. For me, this killed nearly 3 hours. Now what? I?ve still got 9 days to go? Aaaarrgrhhhh.

oH mY gOD! DUPLO I have the exact same symptoms as you. I have for two nights running slept (in the loosest sense of the word) badly. Waking at 4.00am and being boiling hot and feeling cramps and what felt exactly like leaking warm blood, execpt I wasn't bleeding. There is no colour to it, just white blobs (that look like wet tissue). Sorry it that's TMI.

Yesterday am I was convinced I would start AF during the day but nothing. Last night same thing woke at 4.00am reeally hot, flung duvet off and felt the leaking sensation again. Checked but no bleeding. I had a bloody good cry about it this morning as DH has the day off and was very comforting. He has said that we should think that the IVF has failed, but to wait until bleeding actually happens before we rule this one out. I am hoping so hard that I actually think I can will the womb lining to stay put!!!!!

Isle I like that list of things to do during the two week wait. Very good. I am a bit of a list person anyway.

Good vibes being sent to Isle, Duplo, Mama, lottie, sooty, gingerwine and everyone else I've not mentioned.

Isle - my crystal ball (shaped like a computer screen) looks like Friday and Saturday are going to be good days for all of us. I can see positive things ahead and as for my family party on Sat night, I've decided that it if positive I will go to the party and say that I don't test for a few more days. If it's negative I will call the hostess and tell her that I can't come to the party because the IVF didn't work and I feel really unwell. That way I won't have to smile bravely as they all say they're sorry the IVF didn't work. I do still have a small hope that it has worked. If i've never been pregnant before how would I know that hot flushes in the night and leaking is not a bad sign?

DH has been really great over the two week wait and although not one for sentiment, today he said he loved me "for trying the IVF again". That was enough to start me crying again as he never says anything romantic or sloppy. Too much kindness makes me cry.

Hi, still following you guys on your journey - sending good vibes to all. You're all doing great at bearing that painful 2WW. Duplo just wondering if you could let me know who Ian is? Sounds like you found someone good for acupuncture....where does he practice? Thanks (and ps, sorry for lack of knowledge, what does stimming lining mean?)

That's the sound of my plane stalling and heading for a crash and burn, ladies. I've tested yet again this morning (Wednesday) and BFN. The tests I'm using are sensitive to 20 mIU/ml hCG unlike others that trip at 50 or even 100. I've looked it up and by Saturday I should be at 100 for my Beta hCG, if you go back the half rate would put me at 50 by Thursday and 25 by Tuesday... did I mention today is Wednesday? hmmm. Yep, not all conclusive yet, but it's not looking good for the home team.

Deflated but not destroyed, at least I wasn't heading straight at the brick wall going full speed. (I of course, am referring to Friday's blood test - with all my hopes in tact.) The nice thing is that I got a good cry out of the way on Sunday, so I'm getting to the "accepting" bit now. bummed, bummed, bummed to say the least! Well, there's always my test tomorrow and Friday morning! Oh, maybe I spoke too soon, I'm welling up a bit, over here.

KC11 I completely agree with you!!! If I had a big party with friends and family planned for Friday night after I officially take the blood test, I couldn't attend if the results were negative. Yor DH was very sweet, I'm so happy for his encouragement of you! Will that lining to stay put -Everything crossed for you!!!

sooty I do wish you were right in the middle of the TWW sickness with the rest of us!!! However, I'll let your looking on the bright side, slide - just this once! It is shocking to me how a week in normal life can pass without hardly any notice. If I'm busy at work - bam! It's Friday, already? But the second week of the TWW feels like about 7 years!!! I'm with you - I'm 37 but will have to decide if this is our last cycle or to try again with FET. I'm split on the option right now, part of me just wants to know and move on with life. This repeated hope and fail cycle messes with my head and diminishes my joy. Best of luck for your Nov/Dec cycle.

MamaChris keep your fires burning! I still have tons of hope for you, KC, and Duplo. It only takes ONE, it only takes ONE, it only takes ONE wonderful blast to hatch and stick! Don't worry about the freezer, just focus on what you've got, inside, right now! That's the important bit.

duplo you are exactly right, we have all of these scans to check our progress sometimes only two days apart, montioring blood work, etc. etc. then - hey, you're on your own and PS don't worry about it: it will be what it will be. WHAT?!?! are you kidding me? distract myself? with what exactly that could be more important or even come close to taking my mind off of this?? Anyway, for better or worse, that's why I test early. I've always done it (at least now I use those cheapie tests I learned about on MN) and actually my DH encourages me to do it. At least it gives me something to do every day during the wait, well that and still shoot progesterone in my bum every evening and the other bits twice a day. The things we do for a chance at having a baby! Hang in there, lady.

nanoo thanks for your encouragement and watching our stories unfold here. I have the feeling this cycle is going to still have a positive outcome for most of us! Not sure about the reference to stimming lining, I guess I missed that, sorry.

mummycat Some of the ladies here have done 6 rounds of acupuncture around the time of EC and ET, and they say they think it's either helped or been neutral. Some have seen a difference in the thickening of the lining within a few days. I tried that route a year or two ago when we were still trying naturally, but not since we've been trying meds/ IUI or IVF.

Well I guess I'll go to bed again, I get up early to test before DH goes to work at 4 am, so that we'll know at the same time. He's so cute, my husband. The rollercoaster is hard on him too, even though he hides it better than I do.

I kind of feel stupid for getting my hopes up. What made me think this time would be any different? must...focus... on... positive...drag... myself... out... of... self... pity... pit! Hey, on the bright side, we can have sex on Friday, Saturday and Sunday if tests are still negative!!!
And we get to plan a consolation prize trip to somewhere, DH is thinking Vegas, I was thinking New Zealand!

xx

Hang on in there Islegrin. It ain't over til the fat lady sings!!!! Don't stress over the pee sticks. I have not POAS since trying ovulation predictor kits last year. I definitely think you're still in with a good chance. The only definitive way is when you've lost all the womb lining. so even loss of a tiny bit does not spell the end. Our bodies are so clever. Remember that. They have procreated for thousands of years and loads of idiots and silly people get preggers all the time without trying. After all this effort we will reap the rewards, very soon. Hang on in there. Don't give up hope. I am still hoping for your embie. It only takes ONE!!!!

Well, I've had no symptoms at all. Then this evening it feels like AF is on the way. How long till AF after egg collection on a negative IVF cycle anyone?

hang in there everyone, don't let me negativity infect you. this must work sometimes - otherwise where did my clinic get all those photos of little babies from to put on their wall?

How strange KC11 that you are having those hot flushes at night too. what could it be? Are you taking any hormones? I am taking progesterone, estradiol, heparin shots and baby aspirin so am wondering if it's one of them. I'm the kind of person who is always cold and can only sleep wearing pyjamas and socks at all times of the year (plus a hot water bottle in winter) so for me to strip down to my underwear in the middle of the night cause I'm so hot is completely unheard of. I think it's a very wise decision regarding the party, takes the pressure of you. Could the leaking just be from progesterone suppositories, are you on cyclogest? I'm taking those and always have my knickers full of white gunk - sorry if tmi.

Oh dear islegrin are you sure this testing early is good for you? sounds very stressful to me, don't be upset it is still early days, the bfn doesn't mean anything yet. I'm so hoping this is going to work out for you!!
Thanks a lot for the list, I needed a bit of light relief. funny that you're thinking about sex I am really off it now, whenever dp approaches me (he is really suffering from withdrawal poor dear) I feel offended that he's even considering trivial things like that right now. oh well, I blame the hormones.

Hi sooty, what a shame you can't be on the 2ww with us. I think it's actually a good thing that you're taking a break before your next ivf, this will give you some time to recharge yourself and just live a normal life and enjoy yourself for a bit.

nanoo, sorry I did not explain myself clearly, what I meant was that when I was stimulating my ovaries my uterine lining was too thin and after an accu session with ian it suddenly became really thick and "beautiful" (in the words of the dr who did my scan, it also had a triple line which apparently is a good thing). Obviously I don't know if it was Ian's doing but I like to belief so. I really recommend him, google ian prytherch at balance accupuncture. he operates at harley street and in south west london.

I was in a right mess today, I should be at a party right now but cancelled as I just couldn't face it. I convinced myself today that It hadn't worked again. I just feel it. I have no twinges and no dizzyness (symptom with my first pg) and no nothing. I feel really empty inside, not like something is growing in there. I don't know why but I just know. While cooking dinner I scattered half the rice on the kitchen floor, burnt the remaining rice, undercooked the fish and yelled at dd because she insisted on calling me Laura (which is a nice name, but not mine).

Right islegrin, kc11, mamachris, let's breathe deeply and repeat the mantra "it will all be ok!". Now all I have to do is follow my own advice.

Good luck everybody!!!

just googled ivf and night sweats KC11 and apparently it's very common with ivf and neither a positive nor a negative sign. just the hormones playing up.

I don't want to worry any of you but I have yet to chime in with symptoms because I feel like I'm on the BFN path.

Night/Day sweats, acne on chest magically appeared overnight, sore boobs, sometimes sleeping well, sometimes not at all, heartburn, twinges, cramps and back pain. I'm on progesterone inj and suppositories 2x a day and two patches of estrogen changed every other day, and of course the prenatal vits. I just chalked the symptoms up to the progesterone.