Assisted conception (and the bits in between!) - part 3 - all welcome

[Caitni]

Right ladies, time for a new thread.

And a big welcome to everyone . Here's to many more success stories and healthy pregnancies!

Bumpless My DH and I are sitting here shocked by your story - how awful of a consultation. I'm GLAD it was her last day, because she SUCKS at that job!!! What a biatch! Here's a big hug and a virtual cocktail of your choice to help melt that memory away - like Calgon, but different.

You are going to be the REAL MOTHER even if you use DE! I've always thought that, even with adoption. The people that discipline, love, care for and raise a child are the parents. How much more so if you carry the baby and give birth!!! People today place too much importance on genetics and bloodline, when how you act and how you love is much more important.

duplo I'm so excited for your EC tomorrow! Let us know if all three fols have eggs in them. Best of luck to you!!!

sooty hope you are hanging in there, and are currently working on beating all odds!

KC11 must be getting close to ET, can't wait to hear how everything went.

LL love the idea of New Years Eve, and it's great to hear about your twin girls and how they are positioned now. It does make it seem more real, or do all of your symptoms make it painfully clear already??? 500g seems so big! I'm so so happy for you. I completely understand what you mean about putting trust in your doctor and needing to be comfortable with them. One of the things that calmed me down while I was on the table for EC was thinking... it's Dr. D, you know her, it will be fine, we've done lots of things very similar before. (She wasn't even in the room yet, but it really did help to put me at ease.)

My update - I'm not so sore anymore, which is nice. I'm obsessing, googling, and trying to distract myself is futile, I'm also eating a bunch of junk food. Which, last night included 4 pieces of carmel... the last of which pulled off my gold cap! So now I have to go to the dentist for a temporary repair today. ha ha ha - it doesn't hurt, I just feel silly!

ET is tomorrow (Day 3 transfer) - don't know what time. Two or three embryos? - don't know. Will there be any left to freeze? - don't know. Will it stick and finally get me pg for DC #1? - don't know. What kind of lab practices are they using on our little dozen (ie darkened room, high nitrogen environment, leaving them alone as much as possible? - Don't know. Am I going crazy? Definitely!

I need to find another obsession for two weeks!

xx

OMG Bumpless that woman sounds like a cow. I have to say the best thing about being in the private system over here in Aust. is always getting to talk to the same Doctor. It sounds like a little thing but it makes such a difference, especially when things go wrong. I mean I am annoyed about being charged full whack for the last cycle that went so wrong, but the look of disapointment on Mr Dr's face was so genuine that it sort of makes it ok. Also legallly we don't have a foot to stand on as the agreement clearly states this can happen . . . ho hum.

Having said that I do think it's important for the medical profession to grapple with ethics. I think part of the problem is that we all get so upset and emotional (Doctor's included) and frankly desperate. I don't think that's the best place to make these decisions. I'm still considering Donor Egg, but I have made a promise that I won't act until a year after I give up trying with my own eggs. I just think that the decision making process is best made under rational circumstances, and my experience of IVF is that it is certainly not rational.

Take what has happened to us, yes we are angry and frustrated, but another part of us knows that we are really just gambling at this point anyway. We have a 5% chance each cycle, so we are not pursuing a rational goal, but being prepared to throw the dice.

Hey LL New Years Eve sounds fab, great opportunity for having the best birthday parties in the future. And as for the C-section, I can understand your regret at not 'climbing the mountain' but in the big picture you just want the best result. My mum had twins in the seventies, but she didnt' know (no scans then). Anyway, no one had any idea until the first baby was delivered and they realised 'there was another one up there'. I still remember the shock on my Dad's face when he came back from the hospital - we all went into the nursery and looked at the one crib, one stroller, one set of everything and laughed. We even had to buy a new car!

Congrats on your haul Islegrin. I'd go for two, sounds like you'll get some to freeze.

Monday was very quiet on this thread? Just popping in to say the Clinic has agreed to pay half the costs of the cycle which is great. Thanks for your tip LL, it was your Norway experience that inspired me to aruge it - and I mentioned it when I spoke to them.

How did it go KC ?

And Duplo?

While we're still waiting to hear about KC and Duplo - here's my update: ET went very smoothly - we transferred back in two great quality 8 cell embryos!!! And the biggest news of all is that we had another 6-7 to freeze! I can't believe that! I always knew the odds of that happening were really stacked against us. I personally think it really helps that the lab is in my doc's office, and they do all the procedures right there instead of in a hospital.

Now must lie in bed, and wait for implantation in the next 3 days! We take a blood test for pg on Sept 25!!!

xx

Ok, I know, I'm a bit of a loon... but here is the photo of the two embryos they put back in today. It makes it seem real, because today was so easy. I am reminded they are back "on board" and I need to go get horizontal on the couch again.

www.mumsnet.com/member/MemberPage?call=com.mumsnet.member.PublicImageGallery&nick=islegrin

xx

Hi girls, had my GIFT and it went pretty well. they got 3 mature eggs which was the best we could hope for and they put them all back in. really frustrating that I don't know if any of them fertilised but dp doesn't have any probs with his sperm so I'm hoping, and decided to just think positive for the moment. I was pretty euphoric after the op, beforehand the dr found it necessary to mention that there might be fewer than 3 eggs and that with 2 the chances of it working would be pretty slim - so I was really glad they got all 3. the dr always looks like a concerned teacher who is worried that his pupil is just not up to passing her test when he talks to me - not reassuring. but I also decided that this would be the last gift I was doing, it's just too invasive for the odds, I have 3 cuts in my abdomen and feel pretty sore. planning to spend the next few days on the sofa although I promised to do some work from home. thank god mil is here to look after dd. have to start injecting heparin into my belly tonight, not looking forward to putting needles in my cut and bruised belly..

enough of me now, best of luck for your transfer islegrin! how many embrios did you decide to transfer? have you frozen any??
and what about you KC11, have you had your transfer yet? I assume you have decided to stay away from the internet during the 2ww which is a sensible decision. just wishing you all the best.

you sound so brave sootie, especially considering what you have been through. but that's the thing with ac, if you want to win the game you just have to keep going. just wishing it was easier for you. I'm thinking exactly the same as you on DE it's a great backup option but I'm determined to give my own eggs another chance first. but ever since I made up my mind to be ok about DE I feel much more peaceful like a lot of pressure has been lifted from me.

can't believe that councellor bumpless, how disappointing to be let down so badly when you need help most. glad your getting your head round the de, I think it's only a good idea to do it if you feel 100% comfortable with it, but I for myself am sure that once you hold your baby in your arms it really doesn't matter if they are yours genetically or not. after all you will have carried them for 9 months, have given birth to them and are prepared to look after them for the rest of your life.

I have to admit lottie that I never got understood this obsession with childbirth, I think it may be a british thing. In Austria - and switzerland may be quite similar - people's attitude is more that all that matters is to get the child out safely by whatever method is most appropriate. whereas here I have talked to women who are still bitter that they had to have a cesarian 5 years on. why does it make a difference? I decided to have an epidural for my daughter's birth because I'm not keen on pain, and some other mums acted like I cheated or didn't do things properly. bizarre, this is not a competition and having a painful birth is not what makes you a good mother, it's how you look after your children afterwards that matters. not saying that I'm against natural birth, I'm sure with a short labour and no complications it's the best solution, but it's definitely not the best choice in other situations and we should make use of the medical advances that in many countries they can only dream of whenever we need to. sorry to be going on about this, but it's a bit of a bugbear of mine.

Sorry lottie just wanted to say this was not directed against what you said, just don't want you be sad about missing a natural birth, the best thing about it is when you get to hold your baby (or babies in your case!!) the very first time, and this will be the same after a cesarean.

Hi there,

I'm new to this thread, directed here by londonlottie. I had egg collection yesterday, and learned today that 9 of the eggs fertilised. Terrified of twins, so had decided to go for single embryo transfer and try for blastocysts, but on the phone today the nurse was quite negative about waiting, and reminded me repeatedly that by waiting you can end up with nothing

am now picturing 9 little maybe-babies in a petri dish dying one by one... (silly, I know).

but does anyone know a good source for the stats on this? what proportion of embryos make it to day 5, what the different chances of pregnancy are with a single 2/3 day embryo or a 5 day blastocyst? it's something I really should have looked at in more detail before, and googling now I can't find anything "authoritative" with the detailed list of numbers I'm after!

thanks for any advice, and look forward to getting to know you all. (or is that too cheesy for MN?!)

Hello Everyone!

I know I haven't been on here for a little while, but I have been dipping up and think I'm up to date on all your news.

Bumpless what a crappy experience you have had with that counsellor. What's your next move? Will you try someone else?

Sooty I just have to second what others have said about the way you have handled this situation. I feel inspired! Well done for getting the fees reduced too. How are you feeling right now?

Londonlottie Everyone I know who has had experience of C-section and Vaginal birth would opt for the C-section every time. Having had 3 vaginal births myself - no, it's not the most amazing experience of your life - holding your newborn is the amazing part! There is just so much machoism about giving birth and handling the pain - seems a little ironic when you think about it!

Gingerwine congratulations on the job - what is it?

Islegrin it all sounds very exciting for you right now. How come you have to lie down after ET? My clinic has told me to just get on with things as normal when the time comes...

MamaChris My clinic has advised me to try for blastocysts and said that they will be advising me at the time on what best to do. Can't they give you anymore help? Can you speak to anyone other than "that" nurse?

As for me - well AF finally arrived on Sunday. 3 weeks late. Was so ill the day before - a horrid megadose of PMT with full on migraine! Also been very very heavy - reminded me of MC, but subsiding slightly now. So I have a follicle count tomorrow morning and will start downreg at the begining of Oct. Anyone else doing anything around then? Most of you seem to be at the EC/ET stage at the moment. Well fingers crossed for all of you.

Hi MamaChris - welcome.

I'm sorry I can't answer your question directly, but over the weekend when I was looking for a crystal ball to answer similar questions for day 3 rates, I found that googling for IVF success stories or "IVF diary" will give you a sample of other people's experience. I know it's not scientific, but you will start to see a pattern of % range. That helped ease my mind and give me realistic expectations.

I think it might be a little over dramatic to scare you that 9 fertilized embryos will turn to none in 5 days - that's not usually the kinds of results I hear. But of course a lot depends on circumstances, including any conditions you or your husband have and the lab's practices.

If you think that a negative pregnancy result is better than the fear of twins - then it seems to be the right decision for you.

Our doctor would only consider placing 3 embryos if we were willing to agree to seriously consider reduction if all three implanted. I'm not sure if that's an option for you or not, but it is a possibility.

Hope that helped in some small way. There are a few of us that are on nearly the same cycle as you. Feel free to read back some older posts and it will help you get familiar with the ladies here.

duplo congratulations on your GIFT procedure, I read up on it online a bit. It does seem a lot more invasive than IVF, but I'm so glad you are recovering and that they got all THREE eggs - YAY! Now on to the tww!

all the best!

mummycat sorry - crossed posts - My doc is making me basically stay in bed for day of transfer and two days after. I'm not totally bedridden, but these are the days of implantation, so a quiet uterus is best. So they say - she said to take it easy, even NO SHOPPING! ;) back to normal on Thursday - but no lifting over 10 lbs.

I'm sure every doc has their own thoughts on the best way to do everything. But if it works, I don't mind at all!

I've discovered online poker playing to help keep my mind off of things!

Thanks for the info Islegrin I have to say that I don't relish the thought of going into work straight after ET myself as it can be a pretty full on and stressful place to be. I would like to take it easy for a bit afterwards and am planning just that. Online shopping will surely keep you busy too!

Hi islegrin, sorry I just realised I completely missed your post about you ET! How could that happen? sounds like you had a fantastic outcome, 2 high grade embies! And lots more to freeze - hope this is the beginning of a big family ;-). I'm so pleased for you!!
I think it's great that you're able to take the time to rest on the sofa, Zita West also encourages you to rest as much as possible after ET. I have been told to rest for 2 days after GIFT, but mainly to give my cuts a chance to heal I think. for me implantation will be much later, probably this weekend, so I'm planning to have another rest then. will be working from home the next few days.
Am a bit concerned at the arsenal of drugs they have put me on now, I'm injecting heparin and taking prognova, baby aspirin plus the cyclogest. Drs obviously think I need all the help I can get..

Hi girls (head popping out of sand where it's been buried for the last 2 months) been following a little of your thread and wanted to say hi. Am starting my first IVF cycle in a week - I'm on buserelin and have a suppression scan next Thurs. Not at all sure what to expect, feeling a bit overwhelmed - does anyone have an advice on preparation? I'm eating nutritious food and avoiding alcohol (although the medical guys haven't actually told me to, I just thought it might help..?!) - what did you guys do to get ready?

Is it possible to find other MNers on a similar cycle? Mummycat1, big apologies for being useless with all the lingo, but reading your post I thought we might be at a similar stage??

Hi londonLottie, hi islegrin. I spoke to an embryologist after that nurse, and he said that if there are still 5 embryos at day 3, it's worth trying for blastocysts. So I decided to be conservative, and wait if there were 6. Well, it's day 3 today, and all 9 are still growing! So am hopeful at least 1 will be ok for a transfer on saturday. (Of course, now I'm getting cocky, and starting to hope there might even be enough to put a couple in the freezer. That's just me being dumb).

And re CS/VB - have never experienced CS, and would choose VB (if I'm ever in the position to have that choice again!) solely for the quick recovery. That said, I would rather avoid the experience of VB too if I could Once you hold a baby in your arms, I really think it doesn't matter how he/she got there (unless you have a very traumatic VB).

Mummycat Well I'm back at stressful day of work today, trying to take it easy and not get too frazzled with work.

MamaChris HUGE congrats on your 9 embies still going!!! That's wonderful news, I'm so happy for you and it looks like you'll have a great shot at your singleton! Let us know how ET goes.

Duplo I have heard of other ladies being on those same meds, but I'm not really familiar with them. I'm sure they will help your body to hold on to those embies in the making! I'm curious to hear how the GIFT will turn out. Hope you are healing well and feeling more comfortable.

LL and Duplo thanks for chiming in about resting for a couple of days. I actually felt fine and could have gone to work (except for the googlitis I was suffering misserably!) but last night I started cramping, went to lie down and it quieted, had more cramping this morning at work, but it has passed.

I don't know what to think, it could be good signs of implantation or it could be bad sign of uterus pushing off our little embies. Yep - those are the choices, but no one can know which it is for another 8 days!!! Cramping is normal, right, right??? I love the tww! (for those of you who don't know me... that's sarcasm). I actually got a bit scared last night, then I thought - keep your thoughts on the positive side. It could be those two little ones snuggling in for the long ride.

Trying not to obsess - but if any of you have a crystal ball, please fire the thing up and let me know what next week Friday looks like for me!

By the way, I'm sorry that link didn't work out - the pictures of Bert & Ernie are in my profile pics, if you are interested to see 8 celled embies.

Thanks islegrin. Re cramping, I haven't had ET before, but I have had IUI, and did have some cramping a few days after these. I think cervix doesn't like being messed about with. So I think it must be normal

Islegrin Took a look at Bert and Ernie. Cute names. Hope they are doing as they should! 2WW ideas - TRY to ignore every symptom. Watch films, read books - do whatever you enjoy doing to keep you busy and treat yourself lots! Chocolate is always good IMO!

Nanoo I will be injecting from start of Oct so will be just behind you I think.

Londonlottie glad you are feeling better about C-sec. What's your advice on acupuncture? When in cycle shoul you do it? etc.

Had follicle count scan on Wed. Felt really dizzy beforehand, but felt really sick and horrid afterwards and wanted to lie down when I got home. Nurse was lovely and really helpful and full of information. My right ovary had lots of follies so that could indicate PCOS, but my left was hiding behind bowel gas! . From what we could see it had some follies in it, but not as many as the right. Thought this was interesting as my left always seemed to perform better and produce bigger follies than my left when going through the endless rounds of Clomid.

Hi everyone. Not been on the net much this week. Lots to catch up on.

Islegrin - Wow. You seem to have had a great response and all has gone really smoothly. I looked at Bert and Ernie. Amazing to think of their potential. Take it easy and keep yourself distracted!!

Duplo - Hope you are ok after your GIFT. Hope all those drugs do theirs stuff and give you the best possible chance. Fingers crossed for your 3 eggs.

Londonlottie - 500g already. That must be so exciting. For what it's worth I wouldn't worry about having a C section. Although I had 2 vaginal deliveries, if I'd been pregnant with twins I would have had a section. I believe it is much safer for the second twin in particular and the postion of the babies is important too. The only down side is the recovery time, but if you have good familiy support you will be fine. Do you have family coming over to be with you after they are born? Focus on the postives of not having a vaginal delivery - no tears or stitches down below and less risk of damage to your perineum too! Less risk of piles or stress incontinence. I could go on but you get the idea!!

Bumpless - What a useless counsellor!!! So sorry and I hope you can find a better one or come to terms with things yourselves. It sounds as if she had her own issues to deal with to be honest.

Sooty - Glad your clinic have agreed to pay half of the cost.

Mamachris - Congrats on 9 fertilizing. Hope they are doing well and getting ready for ET. All the best for that. Is it tomorrow?

Mummycat - My left ovary was also hiding behind bowel gas when I had a scan! What can we eat to cause less gas do you think?? Hope you are feeling better now. Does anyone know what happens if they can't see your ovary at EC? What if there's lots of gas then too? Can you tell I'm new to this. I must stop thinking about things too much!!

Thanks to all of you for your congrats re my job. It is working with children with ADHD, autism and other related problems so should be really interesting and a bit challenging too. Have been busy sorting out arrangements for childcare this week, and also buying myself lots of work clothes and some shoes. Oh and a lovely and very practical bag to put all my stuff in.

Hi to everyone I haven't mentioned.

Just a quick note now - I'll write more later. I'm off to get my progesterone blood level test.

Thank you so very much for all of your wise words, especially the bit about the list of positives and the chocolate! Normally sex helps keep my mind off of things but that's forbidden fruit these days. ;)

By the way - I only realize now that you may not know that Bert & Ernie are names of a very popular puppet duo here in the US. DH dubbed the embies that because that collection of dark cells on the top of one looks like Ernie's small patch of hair! but thanks for taking a look at my lovelies!!!

xx