Assisted conception (and the bits in between!) - part 3 - all welcome

[Caitni]

Right ladies, time for a new thread.

And a big welcome to everyone . Here's to many more success stories and healthy pregnancies!

Morning ladies

Duplo I've actually been googling since I read your post yesterday and what your doctor was saying makes more sense to me now - GIFT is a good alternative (I didn't know much about it yesterday ). I'm still sorry you're feeling like you failed but I think you're right to trust your instincts and stay with this clinic. But if I were you I'd try the DHEA. I've heard such good anecdotal evidence for it, and ACU thought at one point it was worth using...since it doesn't harm I'd be going for it. Anyway, sorry for rambling on a bit but I'm really hoping that the short protocol works for you. I'd guess the spotting is due to the drugs still floating around your system? I was also that Ian is bemused by his MN fame! He's so down to earth, bet he finds it a bit odd! Hope you like him too.

Ailz definitely worth getting your thryoid checked. I've read on here that for ttc purposes normal should be lower than what's considered normal (that's a bit garbled...but it's worth searching talk for thyroid and seeing what's turned up or starting a new thread).

Summer so sorry to hear this wasn't your month . If your usual luteal phase is less than 16 dpo then I'd also be suspecting a chem pregnancy (god, I hate that expression) . Definitely test earlier next time, as it's important to know...but it must have been hard to seem strong on holidays...glad you got to get it out to your DH at some point. And don't feel bad about letting this out on here. I actually found the natural ttc more stressful in a way, as I used to get my hopes up (and dashed) every single month. It was exhausting, even after we had a diagnosis and were told ICSI was our best chance. I'm not saying the IVF (or IUI) isn't stressful (it is at times) just that natural ttc can also be very stressful, especially when you have a deadline before starting IVF...

Lottie hope you and your DH enjoy seeng the twins! I loved Aliz's comment that you're growing a family .

Hello

Lottie - naughty twin sounds so cute having a little trampoline party in your tummy. Glad to hear it went well. I don't know much about the neuchalscan as I was too late to have mine with my ds but those odds sound like fairly good ones to me. Also - could the difference in heart rates not just mean you have one of each in there? Girls are supposed to be higher than boys aren't they? My midwife said she suspected all along that I was having a boy because his heart rate was always around 145. I'm sure all will be fine. Those bloody appointment take hours don't they? Why bother with giving God damn appointment times if they're going to be so ridiculously wrong?

Thanks to you all for your lovely understanding messages. It so helps to know that you've got a place where you don't have to explain to let it all out isn't it? Will definately test from dpo 13 from now on. When do you count that from though? The day you get a positive on your opk, the day you know you ovulate (last time had definate pain in right side where follicle was day after positive opk) or the day after you ovulate? I counted from the day after I ovulated this time but I don't know if that's right.

What date is your appointment Caitni? Can't wait to hear whether you'll be having a little litter too. x

Hi Ladies
Hope you dont mind me joining you. Been following your thread for a while now and its been so helpful to me. Had not a scooby about down regging, stimming or anything else until I found you!

We are just about to start first cycle of IVF ... waiting on af so I can start the injections. Am on short protocol so will start on cd2. Any top tips on giving yourself injections would be appreciated (am doing it myself - dh too squeamish!) xx

Evening ladies

Lottie at four hours! That is insane...but am glad the scan itself was so thorough (isn't the guy who founded the Fetal Medicine Centre at Kings?). Those Downs risks are excellent - very low - which must be a relief. I've also heard that higher heart rates can mean girls, so Summermagic may be right . I don't think the different heart rates is anything to worry about, but I do know that they're extra cautious with the Zwilling (my new favourite word ) so another scan sounds reasonable. It's easy for me to say not to worry when I know you probably will but hope the next 10 days fly so you can see your lovely active babies again

Summermagic you know, I'd be tempted to temp if I were you as it's the best way of pinpointing the exact day of ovulation as you can ovulate up to 48 hours after getting your postive OPK (although if you're lucky enough to get ov pains then you might decide not to bother!). Not sure if you've tempted before but Fertility Friend has a really good tutorial you can sign up for.

Bluebell hello and welcome . This thread has been a great support to me during and after treatment. When is your AF due? It's only ever on this thread that I actually wish someone's AF shows up . I did all my own injections by the way and they were honestly fine. The thought of them is much worse than the reality. Wrapping some ice cubes in a tea towel to numb the area slightly can help (although I preferred to ice it afterwards!).

Summer don't know if you've "tempted" before? Sorry, that should of course be "temped"

Hi all, you'll have to forgive me for popping in and out like this - my enthusiasm waxes and wanes so much at the moment. One day I feel like I am doing this because I believe it might work, others I feel like I am just seeing it through as part of the acceptance process.

Great news on your scan LL, but you must have been beside yourself at four hours!

Duplo can I ask for more information? Like what you're hormone levels are? I am just interested because I may have a similar problem. Last time I spoke to my doctor she hinted something along those lines, but said to go ahead with another cycle anyway. I am in cycle attempt 6 now so it seems rather premature for your doctor . . .but maybe not if your FSH is substantially lower. My FSH is around 7 - 9, which is in the normal range for my age (40) but I have had almost no luck producing more than two eggs.

I am now on Day 5, on day 3 of stimms. I have my first scan on Saturday, but after last time when I had lots of follicles but only two eggs I am not really getting excited. .

Londonlottie great news that it went well. oh i can only imagine how great it must be to see the two little ones bouncing around in there! you obviously have one clever one who knows to be frightened of people in white coats and one who just chills out and realises that it is better to just get it over with! dont worry about heart rates - slightly slower one is probably just relaxing or asleep and the faster heart rate is obviously the one doing all the bouncing around. you know that docs love to panic us, it makes sure that the world still has docs and doesnt replace them with robots. it is still very very difficult for them to get really accurate idea of heart rates in the womb. Anyway you guys must be thrilled, really happy for you x

Hi Bluebell. welcome! it is quite a lucky thread so hope some of it rubs off on you! hope it rubs off on me too, just if god is listening or anyone at all out there!
Tips for injecting yourself: hmmmm. definitely holding piece of ice on the area for a few minutes before the shot helped me. saw the nurse pinch the skin which made it quite helpful, as in she held it in a pinched up position and stuck in the needle. I would advise you to look away and dont speak to your dh or whoever is doing it. just let them get on with it and DONT MOVE!!!!! that is what my sister, the nurse advised because sudden movements can break the top off needles. sorry if that scares you, it probably happened once to some very hyper person. it is really not that bad, you wont need to jump. i was actually pleasantly surprised as i was really really dreading it more than words can say, so was dh. it gets slightly worse as time goes on but you can swap legs. good luck, let us know how it goes.
will read the rest in half an hour or so.

hi ladies
sorry I haven't been on. had an emotional crash earlier this week. Think it is hormones & a crap DH! anyway I am managing to shake it out of myself.

Duplo - hope you can get some answers soon and things work out for you.

Summer sorry to hear it didn't work for you

caitni - hope you are doing ok

Ailz hoe you are ok too acupuncture for me was a godsend.

Bluebell - welcome, this is a great support to everyone in the throes of IVF craziness. Fingers crossed for your treatment

LL -- well at least they were thorough. Bet your tummy was sore afterwards. Not sure why they are worried about one of the twins heart rates. DD was above 150 and this one is 145.. and its a boy... ask them what the threshold is and ask them if they can take a look at the chambers yet, they will do this at the 20wk scan anyway, but they really ought not to worry you. Pesky sonographers.

sooty - hope you ok??

All fine here apart from the hormonal outbursts, for some reason crying is the order of the week. I cannot remember feeling this emotional last time around. DH is being absolutely crap at the moment. He is a stay at home dad, but he is not a househusband and leaves everything to me - tidying housework, washing, ironing. He never gets up for DD during the night and thinks his days finish at 5 when I get home. It is wearing me out a bit, but i will sort my head out soon. I am also frustrated cos I want to paint some woodwork and have a mass tidy & I cannot lift too much. Oh well, only another month until I start maternity leave (CANNOT WAIT!) and another 7 weeks today until due date.

right I need to go and do some cleaning! - hugs and love to you all xx

Thanks for your replies and the lovely welcome.

Caitni AF is due Friday (today is cd28) I?m a 30 day girl. Know what you mean about it being weird to want AF to show Thanks for the ice idea, will give it a go. Any other advice you can think of for a first timer would be appreciated.

Ailz ? I hope there are lots of lucky vibes left for us. You did your injections in your legs? I wonder why they said to inject into my tummy? maybe its cos I have quite a bit to pinch there Plan to do them myself so better cut out the caffine beforehand. Sounds like you did short protocol? when did you start to feel the effects of the injections? Did you do anything else alongside like acupuncture or diet changes?

Hi all - back from the "celebration of life" trip... now it's back to normal and baby making again. Hopefully we'll be able to start a life!

Flibberty so sorry to hear about your emotional crash, I know exactly what you mean. The only thing that really makes it better is starting to look forward to the next bit of hope - so try to focus on that or just ride the wave of sadness. Sometimes that is better than fighting it back. Either way - we're with you!!!

I had day 10 scan while I was away on our trip - results that I dreaded the most, lots and lots of follies (14 altogether) and all immature. But 24 hours later when we landed back at home, the situation was much better: now there are only 3 follies of increasing size (on the good tube side), still slow at 12mm on day 12, but they are giving me muscle injections now to give them a boost - will have another scan on Friday which will be CD15. IUI will probably not be scheduled until CD 18 or 19, but we still are going forward! Hard to believe what a difference a day makes, I was bummed out after the first scan, but the second scan did show a turn of the tide...

Love to you all - and plenty of NEW and IMPROVED baby dust with extra CLING!

Hi! Anyone heard of Harley Street fertility Clinic? Any info would be appreciated.

Or any other highly recommended Fertility clinics.

Thanks.

Afternoon ladies

Isle welcome back from your trip - hope it went as well as can be hoped for - and glad you're in the right frame of mind for baby making . Great news on your follicles - it's amazing the difference 24 hours can make in this lark! Good luck for the scan tomorrow [caitni sends islegrin eggy vibes]

Flibberty wow - a boy! You must be so happy . Forgive me if you've mentioned that before - I hadn't registered it til now . Sorry to hear of the emotional downturn. You must be so tired...though glad that maternity leave starts in a month and hope your DH cops himself on (as my mum would say ) and remembers that you're busy carrying and growing a new person!

Ailz hope all is well with you

Sooty hope you're having an eggsellent time (sorry - can't resist the terrible egg puns!). But seriously, I hope the scan on Saturday shows good news [caitni also sends sooty eggy vibes] and hope you're surfing the emotional waves that stimming brings.

Bluebell I was also a first timer (and am now just over 6 weeks pregnant) and it really helped me to read other women's stories - as the women on here said to me before I started the injections are really fine. Once you've cleared the psychological hurdle about injecting yourself it's relatively plain sailing. Ailz's tip about the pinching is also a good one (that's what the nurse showed me). I also injected into the tummy btw - I was on menopur - I think different clinics just recommend different injection sites. Luckily I can pinch way more than an inch () so had plenty of padding which helped.

Hannah I've no experience of the Harley Street Clinic but the HFEA website has loads of info about success rates etc. You could also try searching on Fertility Friends message board to see what other ladies think of that clinic. Good luck whatever you decide and feel free to stick around and ask questions/get support on here

Gotta run now so hope everyone else is fine. Took a comedy long lunch and am bunking off early as my best friend just arrived from the States. I'm taking tomorrow off so probably won't be able to check in until Saturday. Am glad of the distraction tbh as am very nervous about my 7 week scan on Tuesday!

caitni xx

Hello

Caitni - I'm so excited about your seven week scan. Will you post the pics up so we can see your little one/ones. I had a scan with my DS at 7 weeks (the day I found out actually) and he looked like a little pulsating worm. Can't beleive he grew in to the bossy little three year old I now have at home. He corrected my English the other day. He said "Mummy, don't say tomato. It's toma-o"!

Flibberty - sorry to hear about your meltdown. I remember reading somewhere that women develop an irrational (or not so irrational) hatred for their partners. Maybe yours has just come a bit early.

Bluebell - welcome to the thread and good luck. I made my treatment plan appointment ready to start in early September today. All feels slightly surreal doesn't it?

Ailz and Sooty - hope you're both well.

Isle - welcome back. Have everything crossed that you'll be having another celebration of life soon .

Thanks for all your advice on the early testing/temping. I love you guys. CD10 today so business time starts tonight. Maybe I should get a nurse's uniform to spice it up a little. Then again, I think not. Don't want DP making any sexual associations with the the medical staff.

xx

Flibberty - I didn't complete that sentence properly. It should have read "women can develop an irrational hatred of their partners at around 34 weeks"

Hiya all

Soz i havent been on for a few months now but as i was at stalemate at the time wasnt due to restart IVF until i came back from honeymoon (yes i am officially a married woman now) at beginning of July i didnt see any point in popping in as i had nothing to report. Anyway AF popped in on 27th June and i restarted drugs on the monday went for a scan on monday and the lovely ladies at the clinic said that i had 10 follicles growing which was a massive improvement from the last time (only had 3 or 4) anyway monday 3 of them measured 11mm and the rest were small so they booked me in again for 2day. went this morning one measures 17mm, 2 measure 16.5, another is 15mm and the rest are lurking behind at 4mm i am on target for having at least 3 of them measuring 17mm so am booked in for another scan 2 moz morn and they will ring LGi and get me booked in for EC which apparently will happen on sunday or monday fingers crossed they get lots of lovely eggs that fertilize on this occasion the clinic decided to run with the flash protocol which only lasts about 4 wks rather than 6 wks of medication everything is crossed for sunday/monday hi to everyone old and new on here oh yea wot have i missed?

Summer PMSL I think that should be a stand out sentence that "women can develop an irrational hatred of their partners" -- doesn't that apply to most relationships at some point, pregnant or not? . Am interested to know what "outfit" you chose for your night of spice . I have managed to save myself from further meltdowns thanks to the healing of chocolate.

Plus had scan at hospital today, 34wks, growth of baby is fine. at 30 weeks they couldn't measure the tummy well and put in pants measurements that got me worried about slowing growth, but now he is doing fine and has lots of hair! so that has cheered me up.

Islegrin -- good to see you back and fingers crossed for this next round

Roseca - good to see you back.. congrats on being a married womee and glad that the tx is going well.

Right I need to get some more stuff on freecycle and then go to bed. Hugs to everyone, sorry for the fast post!

Hi Bluebell
yes hopefully there will be some luck left for us. yes when i told my sister that i was doing injections in legs she was surprised as her friend had them in the stomach, either side of bellybutton. dont know, maybe it is different drugs. i am going to try acupuncture next time. may start ivf again sept and start acupuncture next month. really want to find someone who is experienced with infertility though. have not had review appt yet. yes i did short protocol. just be brave with the injections, you will be fine. good luck with the wait to get started. just got zita wests book on trying to get pregnant and i think it gives good advice on ivf and how to prepare and how to look after yourself after EC and ET. wish i had read it before.
Flibberty that sounds crap, hope you are ok now. dont get too stressed, but i would advise a good calm, sit down chat with dh and explain EXACTLY in detail what you need from him. men always complain that they are not mind readers and that we expect them to be. good luck with it, you dont need any ongoing stress right now, although a good blow-out is quite the remedy sometimes!
Islegrin glad to hear you are back to the job in hand! i was just reading about that and the experts say everything can change in a day, you can have disastrous scan one day and an amazing one the next. good luck, great big enormous elephant growing vibes going your way. Visualise!!!!
Hannah i have heard of it, but have no experience of it or any opinions. i have heard great things about Lister. may give it ago myself next time. good luck.
Hi Caitni i am fine, good idea to have couple of days of fun and distraction. have a good one.
Sooty good luck sat, those vibes going to you too!
Summermagic maybe not nurses considering - good luck, be strong, be constructive, seductive and thorough or something! most of all try to have a nice time!
Roseca welcome back you were before my time, as i said before was just reading about what a difference a day makes to those little fellas, wishing you great luck!
flibberty that is fantastic news, really great! nothing like worrying about kids to make us go insane eh? good news puts everything in perspective though and chocolate of course!
bye everyone x

Ahhh... the "healing power of chocolate" truer words were never spoken,Flibberty!

Well I really like reading about all of the progress those of you who are already up the duff! On most of the other threads ladies flee with glee as soon as they are pg! I can't picture myself pg at all - I have no idea how it will be, what will be important to me or anything. Strange isn't it? I just know that I have to try to be kind to my DH when a newborn is keeping me up nights, historically I've been a right b*tch when I don't get a good night's sleep!

Sorry to ramble - just happy and excited... tonight is my last night (excuse the time change) of gonal-f injections in the arm (muscle shots can also be in the backside, but that's harder to self-administer). And tomorrow is my scan - thanks for all of the well wishes!

Roseca - best of luck to you! It looks as if you are right on track.

Ailz - have you ever had acupuncture before, for another purpose? It's not that bad, and I hope it helps.

Summermagic - pulsing worm! I can't wait to hear about Caitni's 7 week scan too! It's heartbeat time!!!

Hi everyone!!!! flibberty thats bril about the baby not long to go now really is it? it feels good to be back and know that i can input some info that maybe of benefit to others. Went for a scan this morning and folls have grown again have 2 at 19mm, 1 at 18mm, 1 at 16mm, 1 at 15mm and the others lurking around 4mm the nurse says its all gud (to me its like overnite they jumped the hurdle), just got home and she phoned 2 say that i am booked in for EC on monday time not sure yet but starting to get nervous not bout the procedure but the thought that they may have to do me under G.A. (i hate the thought of not being in control with these things) when it comes to ET for anyone that doesnt know i have a fibroid at the top of my womb that curves it slightly so they will do a dummy run on the day to see if they can do ET normally, i also have endo and blocked fallop (greedy arent I? only kidding)but apart from that i feel great apart from feeling really heavy down below - has anyone else felt like that too? Ailz i dont think it matters where you inject yourself thats what they told me from the waist down to tops of thighs basically wherever comfortable, DH injected me on my bottom yesterday and although it didnt hurt as such i felt the hormones kicking around and it stung a bit but i suppose everyone is different. Where abouts are you on your treatment????? it will take me forever to read thru all the previous messages and i am supposed to be doin some housework at mo..... islegrin good luck with your scan hope all goes well

ailz thanks for the zita west book recommendation - will get myself down the library monday. Hope you find someone good to do your acupuncture, does your clinic have someone they recommend?
Islegrin do you mind me asking what a muscle shot is? (one of my drugs is gonalF) Hope your scan went well.
caitni congratulations on your pregnancy. hope you got a good view at the scan.

Am now on CD31, af is obviously keeping me waiting just to be annoying as I want to get going with these injections ..I have a fridge full of drugs! (shes def on her way tho. very very grumpy today!)

Bluebell6 there are two kinds of injections: subcutaneous fat layer (usually in your lower abdomen or upper thigh) and muscle shots, usually in the upper arm (deltoid) or in the upper part of the large muscle in your back side (gluteus maximus). The difference is depth of injection and how it is absorbed into your body. Injections into fat only require a short needle (approx 1cm) and muscle injections require a longer needle (approx 4-5cm). TMI ALERT: Also they asked me to pull the plunger out once the needle was all the way in my arm to verify that it is only air coming out, rather than blood. This is to avoid injecting into a vein or blood vessel.

I'm not in the medical field, but from what I understand the muscle shots are carried by the body differently than if they are injected into the fat layer. From what I can gather if a more direct delivery method is desired - they chose the "im" or intramuscular injection. So, unfortunately I have graduated from subcutaneous to im, but it will all be worth it if it WORKS!!!

After the scan yesterday - the doc decided to put me on gonal-f for three MORE days at 150iu. Then we'll trigger on Sunday and IUI on Tuesday (CD19). The follies are much slower to develop with this current protocol, but we have 2 fols at 14-15 and one at 12 - all on the good tube side. So we're feeling hopeful again, much better than 8-14 follies. Twins would be awesome, but octuplets are out of the question for us.

Hi girls, it's very quiet on here today!

Caitni, I had a really good impression of ian first time I went, I have already booked another appointment for this week. I'm quite tempted to try the DHEA tbh, I'm already on wheatgrass and royal jelly, and various herbal teas but still feeling like I should do more. I never got the hang of temping, I just keep waking up at the most random times during the night, and never managed to have the four hours of sleep (or whatever it is) you have to have before temping. so my temps were completely random and I gave up after one cycle. but I agree, if it works it sounds like a really useful tool. BEST of luck for your scan tomorrow, how exciting you will get to see your little bean for the first time!

Lottie, it's ACU at UCH which has just been renamed to something I cannot remember. Cannot believe your scan went on for four hours, even with two of them that sounds awfully long. But great news about the nunchal scan, that's always such a worry. Please don't let them make you nervous about the heart rate, I'm sure since it's only slightly low it's fine, actually I have read that anything between 120-180 is normal so you're well within the range there. but it's nice that you get another scan soon and can see your little guys again.

sooty I'm exactly the same as you, not quite as active on here as I used to be but just feel the need to take a break from thinking about ttc at times - not that it works though.. Your fsh sounds really good, especially at 40, mine was 6.6 when they measured it and they were happy with it. but my amh is 11 and should be 15, and my ovarian reserve is 9, which apparently is slightly low too. have you had your amh taken? So with my figures my consultant said he didn't expect loads of follies, but still much more than what I produced. Apparently this happens in 5% of all women, that they respond much worse than expected and that's when they assume it's due to egg quality issues. How did your scan go on saturday? This poor response stuff really suck doesn't it, nearly everything else can be fixed somehow, but we have to have the ONE problem that the drs cannot really do anything about. Have you thought about alternative therapies by the way? I am thinking I might try chinese medicine if the next ivf attempt goes as badly as the last one.

Welcome bluebell, have you started stimming yet? I can only repeat what everyone else said, it really isn't painful, uncomfortable at times but no more and I am super squeamish! The nurses told me either leg or tummy was fine, I tried both and found my tummy to be much easier to inject, more flab there than on my thighs!! My dp also refused to do them, he couldn't even be in the same room as me when I was injecting (he faints every time he has his bloods taken, men honestly!) but tbh I preferred doing them myself in the end, much better to have control over it I think.

flibberty tell your dh that this is not on. You are heavily pregnant and should be putting your feet up after a day at the office not running around with a hoover. I think you're entirely right to be cross. Could you maybe get anyone else to help you out, your parents or friends? Just read what ailz suggested to you, sounds much more sensible than my advice but I am a bit of a hothead and a lot of shouting normally works best on my dp.
Happy to hear your scan was good though, bloody hell 34 weeks, not long to go now!

Great news about your 3 big follies islegrin, this sounds very promising indeed! All the best for your IUI tomorrow, will be keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Hi roseca, glad to hear you're having more success with the flash protocol. I responded really badly to the long protocol at my first ivf attempt (2 follies with max stimms) and they will put me on flash protocol for next attempt in september so I'm really hoping I will do better then. Hope your EC went well!

well my af arrived last wednesday after 7! days of spotting. really hope I will be able to sort out my hormones again this cycle. am still reading up on alternative therapies but there's a lot of conflicting evidence so it is quite confusing to know what to do. I am actually feeling quite calm and accepting at the moment but I think I may be fooling myself.
a few nights ago I had a dream about one of my friends who is pg with her 2nd coming to see me in the office and showing off her bump, going on about how fantastic it was to be pg. This sent me stomping around the office like crazy, slamming doors and throwing chairs around with my boss running after me and trying to calm me down (only in my dream luckily, otherwise I would be queuing up in the jobcentre now!!). quite funny really, but I guess it shows that subconsciously I still haven't been able to forget my anger at my stupid body.

Thanks for that Duplo. I don't know what amh is but will google it, but I don't think I've had it done. My cycle has not gone very well this time, was looking positive with a follicle on each side (which usually means two eggs for me), but the unreliable right side has let me down and disappeared so we are looking at just the one on the left, so we are going to switch to IUI on thursday. A part of me is quite relieved, the 2WW gets so difficult because of all the intrusive processes. Somehow you think they must be having an effect on the outcome, but they don't(for me). So I am quite happy to go for IUI and as partners sperm is good my Dr reckons there's not much in it. 'Quite happy' being a relative term.

In the big picture we are very disapointed. I am going to have a proper folluw up appointment this time and discuss our options. We need to talk about donor egg, which I personally am against, but I am keeping to myself so that my partner can have the option. And also I think we are going to move to maybe only attempting IUI - in the hope that we just get lucky. It's much cheaper and less stressful, and as I have never gotten more than two eggs it might just be the sensible choice. On the other hand I am also going to ask the Dr whether we should have another go at a Antagonist cycle (the last one shut me down completely).

As for alternative therapies - well I started down that path and have spent a lot of time researching them. My basic theory is that the placebo effect is the biggest claim they can make, but that this shouldn't be underestimated as it is quite an intriguing and useful tool. From my understanding of the effigacy of natural therapies it is that most of them perform around the placebo level and it doesn't really matter what you choose. Eg massage does work in a percentage of patients but it doesn't matter if it is foot, back, head etc. I think it is to do with a sense of being treated and cared for that creates a sense of wellbeing, so I would go for the hands on ones - like acupuncture, etc. I have been considering it myself . . . I don't believe they understand how it works any better than we do but I think there is value in bringing your problem into a room with another person and spending time with it. In a way that sounds even more airy fairy than some of the therapists I've seen, but generally I like to steer clear from the ones who think they have definitive answers. . . whew . .. that was more a meditation on my own thinking than an answer.