Assisted conception (and the bits in between!) - part 3 - all welcome

[Caitni]

Right ladies, time for a new thread.

And a big welcome to everyone . Here's to many more success stories and healthy pregnancies!

Ailz sorry to hear about a BFN - never nice to see one - but if I were you I'd wait and test again (with first morning pee and a new test) on your test date. 14 dpo is still early (think of a natural cycle where you'd only think of testing once you were actually late). I do know someone who had IVF recently who tested early and got a negative initially and then tested positive on her original test date. I really hope the same happens for you [fingers firmly crossed emoticon].

Sooty I was rooting for Leyton against Roddick (his Aussie fans are very funny, have been camping outside Wimbledon drinking tinnies and being generally cheerful and colourful) but thought he went out in style. I've been rooting for Murray all along but I'd also (secretly) like Fed to beat him in the final. Well, it's only on this thread that I ever say it, but I hope your AF makes an appearance soon .

Hope everyone else is doing well (and not melting in this heat!).

Thanks everyone, i am actually melting. my dd wants to be outside all the time so i have the two most enormous umbrellas out there, but it is still so uncomfortable. i have escaped inside for a while thank god. she is in a sand tray, imagine! jesus.
yes the bfn was bad but expected. i only did it because of the bleeding, which has picked up a notch this morning. (still only small amount, but getting slightly redder). not looking good. rang hospital and they just said what i thought they would say: lets hope it is not af, keep taking progesterone and test saturday. what more could they say really, if they had a crystal ball i would have bought one too. we are all clutching at straws here. everyone i know seems to have bled in early stages (hearing this through my sister and MIL) Found out my SIL bled sporadically when she did not know she was pg with twins couple of years ago. my sisters friend is 20 weeks and in and out of hosp with bleeding, but has seemingly healthy baby in there. i know these are other people, but the bleeding just does not look like af yet, so holding out hope until it does.
LL the whole thing about what you can and cant eat can be ridiculous. the mayonnaise is a classic. it is homemade mayo that is the problem as it is made with raw eggs. like smokes salmon, docs now say it is fine and can be eaten in pregnancy, i steered clear of it for 9 months and suffered as i love a salmon and cream cheese bagel. typical! Eat, eat and be merry girls!

meant to say SMOKED salmon, not smokes salmon. god.

Ailz -- keeping fingers crossed for you sweetie and sending you some hugs.

Sooty - good luck for your next cycle. yes, am slip, slap, slopping or actually just staying out of sun cos its too warm to move

ll hope the MS is giving you a break?

caitni - def honey for under 1 yr olds is a no no, but for pg women is fine. it is related to infant botulism in non pasteurised honey, allegedly. Interestingly in france, they don't give a monkey's about what you eat and just give you shots against it each month. My SILs face when I told her not to give dd honey at 9 months was a picture, she thought I had gone mad.

I am now officially annoyed about the government and their swine flu predictions -- tossers, talk about raising the panic levels with no plan in place. damn fools!

Right I am off to eat some water melon.

hugs to you all xxxxx

HI everyone, just copying and pasting my msg from other thread onto this one. got a bit mixed up with what thread i was on, must be the hormones, got a bit side-tracked!:

Thanks LL, i had my wallowing, crying, feeling sorry for myself afternoon yesterday, but have talked to dh, sister, mum and feel better. really was ready to give up, but feel better today and ready to give it a go again in month or two. you are right i am good candidate, everything went well and responded well to it all, so should work some time.
Thanks orangepink my dh has a lot of hope still because my af is not very heavy. i think it is all over but it is good to hear success stories. i know it can take a few tries and i should be patient. congrats on your two successes! i have one dd and would dearly love to add to that. some day! hi dophus and caitni still bleeding, pretty sure it is all over (i know it actually) but will do test as instructed tomorrow, though i know outcome. i have actually come to terms with it after my outburst yesterday evening. i just felt very stupid, useless, angry with myself. i, just for 15 minutes, saw my life play out before me (as only we can do) and heard all the questions about why i only have one child and am i going to have another one and having to hate everyone who asks, and having to make up an answer to that question forever and imagining all my friends and family having babies forever and me not. it just all ran through my head like a freight train out of control, couldnt stop it and felt very very sorry for myself, but i am over it. it was shocking. x

Ailz I'm sorry to hear things are looking bad. It must be gutting, but am glad you got some of your grief out yesterday. Perfectly normal to spool through your future - I was so convinced that this wouldn't work, both before and during tx, that I'd imagine us having years of batting away the "god, you two enjoy the high life too much to have children" comments before adopting to adopt. Assisted conception takes us to those dark places .

I saw on your other thread that you're wondering about changing clinics and I think you mean Taranissi at the ARGC. It's got great results but is apparently very time consuming - daily scans and bloods, your meds change at a day's notice, etc - and expensive. I looked at it and decided to view it as the clinic of last resort iykwim as a bit too full-on for me. I'm also a bit suspicious of the "consultant as god" approach to IVF so preferred the Lister with its approach that every consultant should be as good as the others. You can see your likelihood of pregnancy with the Lister's pregnancy calculator - you responded so well, and produced so many eggs, that I think blasts could be an option for you (the Lister's emphasis on blasts definitely worked for us). I'd recommend the Lister, I found all the consultants, nurses etc very sympathetic and, well, it worked for us. Also, one the reasons I like the Lister is that it treats women with high FSH and still gets great results so isn't one of those clinics that refuses high FSH women in order to keep its stats healthy. I've also heard good things about the assisted conception unit at UCH and also going privately at Guys.

Also this US site was my life line both before and during treatment - it has so much info, including advice on follow up appointments and the decision to change clinics: Advanced Fertility Centre of Chicago.

Sorry for the ramble. Wish I could give you a big hug and tell you that it will work eventually. Sending you big virtual instead.

Sorry that should be "deciding to adopt"

Ailz so so sorry about your bfn!! What a disappointment after everything went so well. But I agree that your chances of it working next time are really good since you responded to the treatment so well. So please don't give up, despite what all of us are hoping it does take more than one attempt for most people. I really understand what you mean about how you're dreading the comments, I'm quite scared of going to childrens birthday parties now cause I'm normally the only one there who's only got one dc and I get all those questions too. But you know what I have decided from now on people who ask will get to hear that I'm not able to have any more and that should shut them up. I don't see why I should always put on a brave face just so other people don't feel uncomfortable.

Lottie you sound very sensible about the whole eating thing I have to admit I let myself being freaked out by the whole hype when pg with dd, I refused to eat salad in the canteen as wasn't sure they washed it enough. Still remember shrieking "do you want me to kill my baby!" to my boss when he suggested it was safe to eat it. really cringing at the thought of it now, am determined to be less hysterical if I ever happen to get pg again.

I had a pretty bad review meeting yesterday, expected consultant to say we'll just use a different protocol and I'm gonna be fine. what he did say was that he thought my eggs had some defect and we'll do short protocol next time but he reckoned there was only a 20% chance of me producing more follicles with that. Apparently if I was older he would suggest egg donor but at my age there was still a chance that I could get pg naturally (around 5% each month), and we could keep trying iuis, or gift if I managed to produce 4 eggs. So I broke down in tears there and then, sobbing like a madwoman using up all his tissues. I couldn't go back to work for the next two hours, had a long walk in the sunshine with dp and a nice lunch and was feeling much better after that - funny how food really helps with anything.
anyway, the plan is we'll try another cycle in September and I will be praying for enough follies to be able to do ivf but it's not looking good. sh*t. It's good to know I'm in with a chance to get pg with my own eggs at some point if i'm lucky, but if I can be really immodest - I don't want to get pg at some point, I want to get pg soon! I was always thinking, one or two more cycles, get pg next jan at the latest, but that seems quite unlikely now.

Afternoon ladies

Ailz how are you doing? Hope you're taking care of yourself (and your DH). Am thinking of you xxx

Lottie at your MIL! I know they mean well but stil...Enjoy having your DH over - hope you get a lovely view of the Zwilling tomorrow! Good luck with the scan and let us know how you get on

Gilly that's great news about starting your next cycle so soon, although it'll be a hassle to get the co-ord app/scans etc sorted. The house move isn't ideal timing but am sure you'll cope. Hope you get to switch the downregging scan - I'd say that you're being a bridesmaid at a wedding and can't shift the dates or something which means they have to be flexible for you. Am also at your MIL!

Sooty hope you're doing well - has AF arrived yet?

Duplo I'm so sorry to hear about the review app . Though I'm at your consultant being so definitive after one cycle. How on earth can he say he thinks there's a defect with your eggs when no embryologist has looked at your eggs under a microscope or seen how they fertilise? Also, why would he recommend IUIs and GIFT over IVF? I think I'd be tempted to get a second opinion unless you really trust this doctor.

Flibberty am also a bit about the swine flu. I work with a woman who's 7 year old caught it so have been a bit paranoid...

Isle hope you're doing well. How's the new protocol working out?

Waves to NPA Bumpless and anyone else I've missed.

Thanks Caitni, you were not rambling, your advice was very helpful about that clinic. i have not really done much research into it yet, but you have saved me the bother. it is just not possible to have such full-on appts and so many with a 3 year old around. she would just not stand for it! I also read on the HFEC (is that right?) website that he received -40 or something on his points for clinical practice. the closer to 0 you are the better, so he is not so good at following the rules and lost his lisence at another clinic. i will certainly give lister my consideration. do they do accupuncture? i think blasts may be the way to go too. will discuss it wherever i go. who knows. i am also thinking about getting thyroid checked. you never know. it is one of those things that causes huge problems in women and is seldom checked and seldom suggested by GPs. it may be underactive and this can affect fertility.
Yes LL and gilly thanks for your advice too. i am worried about changing clinics and have gone private as have no choice. the ARGC sound horribly expensive and would be super-depressing if it didnt work and you spent all that money. i will see what consultant says at Hammersmith first and make decision then. Yes i am drafting list of questions to ask and will include progesterone injections on list. i began the strange brown bleeding about three quarters through 2ww too, so it may be a progesterone problem. I just cant shake feeling that i was pregnant and lost it. i think this because had symptoms early - headaches, exhaustion, sore boobs (which can be progesterone obviously) but thursday came and very dark blood and symptoms just stopped suddenly. felt different immediately on waking. was blaming it on hot weather but thursday was one of hottest most humid days of all and i felt fine. need to bring this up with consultant too. duplo thanks, i think you are right, i was entertaining the thought of brutal honesty myself actually, that should certainly shut them all up alright! it would probably be quite liberating. that was funny thinking of shrieking at your boss like that! though it is the bagged salad that is deadly, not just to preggers ladies. they wash it in chlorine! and it is one of major causes of food poisoning. i try to avoid it at all costs. i hate chemicals. but who likes them i suppose! Just going to finish reading your post in 5 minutes, must feed child who is throwing things off couch and possibly throwing herself off in a minute.
xx

oh duplo i am so sorry to hear about that appt. i am with LL that you could consider some kind of second opinion. it is a strong thing to say, 'defect'. i remember first gynae i saw, saying that he was not happy with my follicle reserves, for my age, when he did a scan and then a couple of months later and a few failed clomid cycles i reminded him what he had said and he replied 'oh no, i am not at all concerned about your follicle reserves, i dont know why you would think i said that'!!!!! as if i would forget one negative word he said! so they sometimes say things that they dont really mean or dont really understand or they make guesses, because some of them dont realise that they are breaking your heart. glad you cheered up a bit. food is great alright!, dont take it too seriously if you can, keep hoping and doing all the crazy stuff we do for fertility and taking care of yourself. got to dash again and not finished reading at all! back later. take care everyone x

oh duplo i am so sorry to hear about that appt. i am with LL that you could consider some kind of second opinion. it is a strong thing to say, 'defect'. i remember first gynae i saw, saying that he was not happy with my follicle reserves, for my age, when he did a scan and then a couple of months later and a few failed clomid cycles i reminded him what he had said and he replied 'oh no, i am not at all concerned about your follicle reserves, i dont know why you would think i said that'!!!!! as if i would forget one negative word he said! so they sometimes say things that they dont really mean or dont really understand or they make guesses, because some of them dont realise that they are breaking your heart. glad you cheered up a bit. food is great alright!, dont take it too seriously if you can, keep hoping and doing all the crazy stuff we do for fertility and taking care of yourself. got to dash again and not finished reading at all! back later. take care everyone x

oops!

Hi everyone, I have read everyones msgs and attempted to write a really long (essay) reply - twice only to be cut off each time, i spoke to everyone in it. you are going to have to take my word for it. it has taken my over an hour and i have an impatient child. i never stay on this long. i am a 10 minute person. so i am going to have to quit for now. LL good luck with tomorrow. stay calm, ignore any negativity, one day at a time, one step at a time, you will be just fine. take it easy, you are carrying a whole family! put up invisible but powerful force field around you, it will block any bad vibes or silly comments! Everyone else thanks for your support too, good luck with all your stuff, appts, moving, babies-to-be, hols, MILs. thinking of all of you. x

Hello everyone

Just back from a lovely holiday in Italy with the family so have lots of MN homework to do to make sure I'm up to date on everyone's progress.

But just wanted to say Ailz - I'm so sorry this cycle didn't work out for you. I was thinking of you all day on the 4th and so hoping for a positive result. You sound like a very strong person ( I think I would wollow in my own misery for at least a week before starting to see the positive side) and I'm sure that and the knowledge that technically it all went well, will get you through. It must be really difficult not to let your emotions show to much in front of your dd though. My little boy is so sensitive to my moods and gets really upset when he can see that I'm upset.

Duplo - what a horrible bloody appointment. Especially as it sounded to out of the blue. Sometimes I really do think these doctors just like the sound of their own voice a bit too much. It wouldn't surprise me at all if next time you ask him about it he explains things completely differently.

computer says I'm running on reserve battery power so just very quicky wanted to say good luck Lottie for tomorrow and Caitni - hope your doing well.

Things didn't work out again for me this month and was particularly upsetting as I got to 16dpo with loads of symptoms like sore boobs, mood swings, massive tummy, leg aches, boobs so sore I had to carry them (I only get a few of these usually not all). I really let myself believe I was pregnant this time and allowed myself to daydream about telling everyone and due dates and then half way through day 16, just as I was thinking about testing, bloody af came. I think I need to get over my fear of testing and do it day13 from now on because a) I think the anticipation delays it and b) I could well be having early mc's and not knowing it.

Had to hold in dissapointment for days because didn't have any alone time with DP to let it out. Felt like I had a stone on my chest until I woke up on Thursday in a foul mood and went for a drive with DP and let it out. Feel much better now though the thought of DS's birthday in October where almost all the other mums (and I'm not exaggerating) will be PG is still haunting me.

Oh well - two more natural goes and then on to IVF. Sorry to moan. I'm really aware that many of you have been through so much more than me so I'm sorry for the selfish posts but haven't really had anyone other than DP to talk to it about.

Big waves to everyone else. xxxx

Thanks summermagic for thinking of me. so sorry it didnt work out for you too this month. it is hard isnt it? yes it is tricky with a child around, trying not to let them see that you are upset, trying to carry on as normal when it is the last thing you want to do. i found it so hard to concentrate on normal stuff in the 2ww. i didnt have quite so many symptoms as you, but i did let myself get carried away daydreaming. so i know how you feel.
I am definitely going to suggest recurrent miscarriages to the consultant. what is your evidence? the symptoms? i went from being exhausted, headaches, sore boobs to nothing and dark blood (TMI) very suddenly.
anyway moved on. how are you moving on? it is good to rant to someone. i find MN very good to rant to. My dh is good too but he is taking it all quite hard. feels a bit like he is suffering more than anyone in the world. when i lecture him, it is sort of therapeutic because i realise a lot of things, number 1 that we have it better than a lot of other people in bad relationships and financial crisis etc. so i get through it. bottling it up is definitely not the way to go. glad you could vent it. the problem with not testing is that the hopes get built up. hard to know what is the right thing really.
Caitni i meant to ask how your little bump is going? and LL - again good luck tomorrow, thinking of you

I've just started a thread asking for information about accupuncture. if you guys have any info or opinions or heard stories i would appreciate it. thanks guys

So sorry about your disappointment summer. It does sound like it could have been a chemical pregnancy especially with your period coming on late, I would definitely bring it up with your dr and maybe just giving you some progesterone is gonna help. I am a big fan of early testing, I always prefer to know early so I don't get excited over nothing. You know, I do exactly the same thing every month, working out when my due date would be, how far along I would be at christmas, when I could tell people..even though I should know better than that. how old is your ds? my dd's bday is in october also, she will be three then and I think nearly all of her friends already have baby silblings and the remaining few will have by then. Oh well, decided not to stress about it too much, which works better some days than others.

Ailz, I try to view things the same way as you, appart from the secondary infertility my life is pretty good, we've both got jobs, no financial worries, good relationships so enough to be happy about even if I don't manage to get pg again. see, I have managed to pull myself out of that hole again. I think that's one important skill we learn during this difficult process.

That's great you're starting again in August Gilly, that's not long at all now. I think having a holiday just before the cycle is great timing that way you'll be all relaxed before you start again. Good idea to check about the downregging though, could you fly home early if they didn't let you dr for longer?

All the best for your scan tomorrow lottie!! Are you gonna have a midwife appointment afterwards, I think that's what they normally do on the nhs and you'll get a bounty pack full of baby leaflets and stuff. exciting!

hm, I'm actually with acu who have one of the best success rates in this country which makes it even more depressing that I failed so badly. at my age range 60% get pg per ivf cycle, well not me obviously. So I think I'll stick with them for the moment. My consultant said that with my hormone levels I should have produced enough follicles, but apparently 5% or women don't and they assume that's because they have some defect with their eggs. in their experience there is only a 20% chance I will do better on short protocol, if I don't get enough eggs for ivf, but more than 2 we can go for gift, otherwise I will be stuck with iuis or natural method. does this make more sense now? it does to me somehow, but is still depressing. also surprising, I asked about DHEA and they said they used it for a while and it made no difference whatsoever so they stopped. I'm still quite tempted to give it a go though..

I went to see Ian btw, thanks a lot for the recommendation I really like him and he was quite amused about his popularity on mumsnet.

One weird thing, my period is due tomorrow or wednesday at latest and I have been having slight spotting for 5! days now. never get more than one day's spotting normally. first was excited and thought it might be implantation, but it's been going for so long and don't feel pg at all, just like period is gonna come so I guess my hormones are still completely screwed up from stimming drugs last cycle??