desperate for any help as no idea whats going on??!!! can anyone help me???

[Wishing]

i have copied this to 2 post so sorry if im repeating myself but need advice of anyone who can help;

this morning got bfn with tesco cheapie fmu, was sure felt af terrible cramps down below, irritable and teary -got to work went to do a knicker chec and there was a brownish red stain in them, not had anything like it before and thought it was af starting, wiped it was mucussy (is that a word?? so put a towel into till af got going. was sure i could feel it all morning so cried to dh on phone, cried at my desk and was literally heartbroken. then got a call from my friend who has same cycle as me and also ttc this month, she was sure af coming but nothing and always has it first thing. we chatted and she went to get a test at 11ish VERY soon later she called me to say she had a bfp! i was so so happy for her she was so shocked and so happy but deep down i was falling apat - tears came i was gutted i just couldnt and still dont understand why i havent got a bfp - we did exactly the same, in fact i bd a lot lot more!! anyway went to change pad and there was nothing!! not a drop or a splurge!! awful cramps but no af, what i thought was af was just lots of cm! TMI WARNING - there is loads of it!! so at lunch i went to get a cb test - not digital and peed away - hadnt had that much to drink and got another bfp?? was so mad at myself cos was sure deep down that af was coming but hanging on to a hope that stain this morning was actually implantation bleeding. carried on to this afternoon and on another trip to loo to find no af i managed to go to loo, constipation for 2 days now and i managed to let a bit of it go - PAIN has gone>!>!>! ??? dont feel like af coming any more, something very wrong with boobs and have a banging headache and feel sick. WHAT IS GOING ON?????? still no af?? i do think headache and sickness may be all emotions im feeling but i have continued to cry over anything all day, im never this emotional! i no i am hanging on to a huge hope here but do i stand a chance this month??

not going to get my hopes up sunny dale thanks for the knd thoughts though, i did think the same but now im not so sure! definately write down all you need to ask and put your foot down at docs, its hard though i never do!

thanks head fairy, didnt even no that epu exsited?! we have a family planning clinic in the local town will they be a similar thing??

Nope, I didn't realise EPU existed either. Another question on my list for tomorrow! And yes, Thaliablog, I am a massive Buffy fan. Only got into it when I was PG with DD (ie ten years after it was on telly) - we watched all seven seasons back to back. There's nothing like a good box set when you're cheggers... currently working through The West Wing, though sadly not PG any more... yet! (trying to be optimistic).

well they were lovely and helpful at my local epu!! i called advised them of my situtaion etc and nurse bluntly said "no your not pregnant then, it would definately show by now, your obviously just a bit late, anything else?? no?? ok then bye!!"

seriously that was it i was on the phone for under a minute!
how is this helping me!!

wishing - have you had another -ve test today ?? if you haven't tested for goodness sake do a test, your first tests may have been too early , especially if they were not the first wee of the day . i had an implantation bleed and get waiting for my af to start , it took 3 days for it to dawn on me that i wasn't going ot get it as i could be pregnANT ( and i am a doctor )

please help me mummy doc, could i still be pregnant?? i just did a test to try and pasify myself and it was another bfn with a cb?? im now in tears over the way that women at the epau spoke to me and i really dont no what to do ??

Mummydoc, oh how I wish I was a doctor. WHY HAVEN'T I HAD A PERIOD YET!!!! I'm only joking - just trying to be humorous because you must get inundated with questions all the time from everyone. Anyway, Wishing, I can't believe they were so short with you at the EPU. I'm not a doctor but you could easily have tested negative because you tested too early, or yr hormone levels just aren't detectable yet.

Mummydoc, okay I do have a question - but for all of us, not just me. Is it possible to be "a little bit pregnant"? I swear to god that last week I had every symptom known to man (and I've been PG twice before), but I tested and got a BFN and now I don't feel PG at all. Could there ever be a scenario where the sperm and egg have met, and are dividing, but for whatever reason the pregnancy fails very early on, so that you wouldn't have a MC as such but just some early PG symptoms and then nothing until your next AF? I've always wanted to ask a doctor that, but been too embarrassed. Sorry to ask you - it just might explain a few of our symptoms xx

wishing - there are 2 possibilities

1. you are pregnant and it is too early for a positive test , ( it took 5 days for me to get apositive test after seeing animplantation bleed) . you can either sit tight and try to test again in 48 hrs witht he first wee of the morning, or call your own gp and ask if you can have a blood test witht he nurse and ask for a qualitative Beta HCG , usually results are available the next day , i do not know what your gps are like, some maybe able to do it this afternoon if you ring.( this is the pregnancy hormone , qualitative tests are yes/no awnsers, quantitative tests show how much beta hcg is gogin round)
2. you are not pregnant and your period is late.

sunnydale, i am not a gynaecologist just a humble gp but it is thought 50% of precnancies fail before people even suspected they were pregnant i.e they get a period eithe ron time or a few days late and never realised, so i guess that the developing embryo could cause symptoms before implantation, though beta hcg isn't secreted in nay great quantities until implantation has occurred ( i htink i am rembering this correctly) up till then the pregancy is " supported" by increasing levels of progesterone. it could be the progesterone wat htis early stage which is causing some of the sympttoms ( now before nay other cleverer docs or scientists come on an shout at me this is a very simplistic take on what happens ok!) progesterone can cause sore boobs and sickness. as can your sub-concious, though i have this believe that if you are desparately ttc your body awarness of symptoms is heightened i.e even minor changes in hormones can produce symptoms which you interpret as preganancy symptoms ( i know i did )

thank you, mummy doc!

i think i am best to wait and sit tight, gp told me last time round that he wontn do a blood test until i am at least 2 weeks late so im guna upset myself by even trying!

maybe i am so desp to concieve and still so upset by my friend who managed to concieve thast im doing this to myself??? i will update you girls when af arrives or when i get my bfp however i feel the af has more chance deep down! thank you so much for all your patience but i have to pul myself together ande stop clutching at straws now for eveyones sake, if im lucy enough to have a little bean in there this isnt going to be doing the bean any good and if i dont im probably keeping af at bay myself!

love to all

xxxxxx

Thank you mummydoc, I love you for that. It is so nice to get any help and advice from anyone! What you say makes sense to a layman like myself, and has helped me make sense of my funny symptoms these last couple of weeks. Wishing - very best of luck and please keep us posted xxx

oh wishing, so sorry you feel so bad. I really really do hope it's a bfp eventually. I'm shocked the EPU were so short with you. They were wonderful at mine, but of course it must vary wildly. Do keep us posted about what happens. In the meantime big (((((((((hugs))))))))))

Sunnydale, I think some people refer to what you're talking about as a chemical pregnancy. I don't know if docs call it that, but it sounds just like what mummydoc is referring to. The egg is fertilised but either fails to implant or the very early stages of cell division don't go properly for whatever reason. So there is a miscarriage, but because it's so early it's often not detected unless you're ttc and you're watching out for things or testing on the day your period is due.

I was also told progesterone mimics pregnancy symptoms and I believe causes them in early pregnancy, but I've also found out that progesterone rises after ovulation in preparation for pregnancy, and then falls as you approach your period, so often just before your period you can feel nauseous and have sore boobs, which is often mistaken for early pregnancy signs. Since I found that out I've ignored anything remotely resembling pregnancy signs until I'm very late.

I hope I'm not stepping on mummydocs shoes and I haven't got anything wrong!

head fairy i htink you put it better than i could as ever i have been shocked at some tof the responses / help people have got from the medicla profession - most of us to try to be helpful, maybe i am sympathetic as had trouble ttc both times , i too learnt to ignore all possible signs of pregnancy unless period late. to add to the progesterone causes these symptoms theory i still get sore boobs and feel really sick ( just like early pregnancy) occasionally and i had an emergency hysterectomy during deliver of dd2 so no way could ever be preggers again.

thanks mummydoc, good to know I'm not fooling myself and everyone else. You learn a lot when you're a hypochondriac

Oh mummydoc, I'm so sorry to hear about your emergency hysterectomy. You're the second person I've heard of who has had one: a friend of my DH's also had one after her first (and now only) pregnancy. I had no idea they were so common. How do you feel about not being able to have any more children? If you don't mind me asking. I can imagine that, even if you didn't want any more, the thought of not being able to might make the finality of it feel v difficult. And here is me moaning about a late period. It puts things into perspective

I'm glad we're having a proper scientific conversation on here, there are so many pieces of nonsense spoken on conception boards! Just one thing, beta hcg is produced only by an embryo which has implanted, so not possible to get pregnancy symptoms unless implantation has occurred, however you could have implantation, slightly rising hcg levels and a very early miscarriage. A study I read last year was very interesting, it's an old one. They got women to put urine in the freezer every day for months, then measured hormone levels. THey discovered some astronomical rate of pregnancies that never made it even to a late period - very low levels of hcg, then a period almost as normal. That's the paper that gave me the statistic I use on here that most healthy pregnancies implant between days 6-10 - this study found that implantation could happen later than that, but that those pregnancies were more likely to end in early miscarriage.

Agree re the progesterone. When I've done IVF, I get the whole constipation, achy boobs already on about day 4 because of teh big progesterone doses they give you. The only early pregnancy symptom which has ever been true for me is stretching and pulling in the abdomen, but I didn't get that this time - bfp on day 12. So who knows. I think when we are looking for symptoms we find them. Last week I had a horrible bout of nausea one evening, then realised I'd just taken antibiotics on an empty stomach. Duh. Not a pregnancy symptom, as I'd been thinking!

I do also think that pregnancy tests can have defective batches, so never believe it until you've tested on day 14 dpo, with at least 2 different brands of test (expensive, but worth it for peace of mind).

Sunny - am massive buffy fan, got introduced to it by a friend early on. Really miss it! Have you watched angel?

Hi everybody and finger's crossed wishing.
Sunnydale, I had no AF for months after a mmc & ERPC and in my case there was still tissue left that was producing hormones. I had to have another ERPC. The official chances for that are 5 out of 100 if you had an ERPC. I don't know what the chances are if you miscarried naturally. Normally the left tissue will lead to pain and bleeding, but not always. In my case it was all calcified. The GP wouldn't believe me until I showed him the notes from the hospital. I hope AF is around the corner for Sunnydale and not on for a year or more for wishing :-)

Blimey Glimmer, that sounds scary. I haven't even had a check up, and it was eight weeks ago. No pain at all, other than 10 days ago when I had what felt like bad period pains (cramps). I optimistically thought I might be ovulating, then since I'd BDd two days previously,I became even more optimistic when I started to get light spotting, twinging tummy, nausea, metallic taste in mouth and ability to cry at the least thing. Yee-hah, I thought to myself. But then got a BFN from First Response. Of course, I didn't really know when to test coz I haven't had a period for 22 weeks, if you count the pregnancy and the two months since. How long did it take for your AF to return after your ERPC? Go on, scare me! (no, I'd really like to know, however grim the truth is...) Are you ttc also Glimmer? xx

Hi Sunny,

sorry I first should have acknowledged your loss, because a mc is devastating. I just wanted to let you know because I knew nothing about complications and for me it would have been so much easier, if I had only known some of the info... I immediately wanted to get pg again, so when I had +ve tests, I was very hopeful. I don't want to scare you with the whole story, because the 2nd ERPC caused even more problems, so it was months before I had an AF. However, DS (11 months now) was conceived two weeks after 1st AF :-) :-) :-) I just had my first AF after birth and we are thinking when to start TTC for #2. I think I will only start TTC once I feel I could face another mc. It;'s tricky, could happen the first time, could be years.... But it's good that you have a follow up with the GP and as I said, it's only 1 in twenty.... They say it can take up to three months for AF after mc. Good luck to everybody.

Wow glimmer that's a bit of a shocker. To think all that time you were pg and for it to be tissue left behind after your erpc must have been awful for you. So glad you have your ds now.

I feel very fortunate that my mc was so simple. I mean, it's not nice to have a mc at any time, but mine was so straightforward. I do believe it's really important to look for the positives in everything, so that's my positive. If I absolutely must have a mc then make it early and quick and over straight away. I mc'd on the Saturday and by the wednesday my hormone levels were back to pre-pregnancy normal levels. Makes me feel very hopeful for conceiving again pretty soon.

thaliablogs - it's interesting what you say about the study with frozen urine and the number of mmc. Now I know I've had a miscarriage, I'm convinced I've had one before. I (stupidly) slept with an ex boyfriend about 5 years ago, then went travelling the next day for 5 months. I was on the pill but had only just started, and because I was travelling I carried on taking the pill with no break to avoid having a period. About three weeks in to travelling I had the most awful period though, really painful and very heavy. I remember at the time being really hacked off because the gp had said if I didn't take a break between pill packs I wouldn't get a period and here I was having the mother of all periods. Thinking back I'm sure that was a miscarriage.

HeadFairy, I like your way of thinking. I agree, it would be preferable not to have a mc, but if must be (and mostly there is a valid physical reason for it) than it's best if it is straightforward. The traumatic part for me was that it was not straightforward and because I was not informed, the GP kept discarding my concerns, when I had some real issues, that in my case were introduced by the medical treatment.

I agree about the early miscarriages (i.e. in the first two weeks). The number I read was about 90% of all pregnancies mc in the first two weeks, but women never know for sure unless they test (which didn't use to be an option).
I know I had one (positive test, then very heavy AF two days later), but when I mentioned it to the GP she just laughed and said she wouldn't count that one. (Sorry, don't want to rant against GPs,
but mine (plural) were unfortunatley not very helpful.

Poor you glimmer... we were discussing poor management of miscarriages by the medical profession last week, esp in the light of the mnet campaign to change the way miscarriages are handled. I was just browsing around and googled the hippocratic oath... came up with this bit of it...

"I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug."

I think some doctors should go back and re-read the oath they took when they qualified. I think laughing off someone's miscarriage definitely counts as breaking the hippocratic oath

hey girlies!

im still hanging on here!! no af and i am exhausted literally!! but i arent testing i have been an emotional wreck and i just cant take another test right now!!

im still hopeful but trying not to get too carried away! i just wanted to speak up and say i agree with the appalling way the medical profession seems to treat women ttc and also those horrible and unfortunate early mc!

i have had no help whatsoever when i have visited a gp or called the epau and im sure its contributed to my emotional breakdown! i have been forced to confide in my supervisor at work about my wholoe situation after a breakdown yesterday, they were fantastic about it and i feel much better already - just waiting for an answer now, and the waiting seems to be getting easier! its been an emotional few days which may be contributing to my exhaustion - and im sorry if my story seems a bit whimpish as i certainly havent been through a tougher time as some of the people who post on here - my thoughts are with you, and if it helps your determination is admirable and keeps me going! i was going to try and stay away from the internet but i sort of feel better sometimes as a result of posting on mn! everyhone is so kind and helpful!

love to all, sorry to hear about your awful time of it too glimmer and so pleased you were able to pass it and now have a beautiful ds

xxxxx

Wishing... glad there's still hope, but so to hear you've been so distraught about the whole thing. It's such a difficult time, I hope it is a bfp. Is there a way you can see another gp for a more sympathetic approach? I agree so many just dismiss the heartache ttc can cause. Is your gp male or female. I hate to generalise, but I think only women understand the desperation to get pg and the yearning women feel. My gp is really young (well, in her late 20s early 30s) and she's so sweet, she was really sympathetic when I went to her after ttc for a year. It makes all the difference.

Sending you many happy pregnant vibes

thanks head fairy! thats nice of you!! i think im just guna stay clear of a gp until i get bfp unless we do end up ttc for over 12 months - im definately staying clear until im over 2 weeks late!! ive always come out more upset than when i went in!!