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Conception

When's the best time to get pregnant? Use our interactive ovulation calculator to work out when you're most fertile and most likely to conceive.

Assisted Conception and the bits inbetween

999 replies

soosy · 26/06/2008 11:33

Welcome to the new thread I only hope I can link it to the old one

OP posts:
sootykalucy · 22/07/2008 20:40

Hey LL, I so know how you feel ! Okay, first of all as a general statement I think there is a lot of rubbish out there about 'knowing your body' and that the natural therapies posse has a lot to answer for in terms of 'interpretation'. I have had friends recommending me all sorts of therapies - from wild flowers to homeopathy and acupuncture etc, and when you look into them there is nothing more than annecdotal stories.

That said, you need to find a doctor that takes you seriously . . . and allows for the fact that you may jump to conclusions that are not correct, but that is because you are not trained, not because you are stupid. I did engage quite heavily with 'interpretation' at the beginning (saw homeopaths etc) and I now feel that that was just delaying (or a process of not being prepared to give up on it not happening naturally). But I did find charting to be useful, and the subsequent scans I did on my IUI cycles correlated the data I had collected. For eg, I do ovulate on D15 most times - and always when my cycle is 28 days. I think that although charting has it's limitations it is a source of data that is not irrelevant.

My learning curve with this has been very interesting, the journey of getting to IVF has been also an intellectual journey where I have rejected a lot of my more 'holistic' views and taken comfort in the relationship with evidence that science has. My doctor (number three - who I adore and is with the NHS) likes NOT to speculate, and he never pretends to KNOW. His approach is very much that the whole process is diagnostic and uncertain, but at the same time he NEVER talks down to me when I offer information about my experience.

On a practical level though from what you have said I would say go ahead with the laparoscopy, this is a crucial bit of information that you need to have - if your tubes aren't clear there is no point taking Clomid. Also, your Dr is also right about having it early because not only do you have to worry about pregnancy, when I had mine on D21 the opening to the cervix was too small (post ovulation), and I had to come back on D10 next cycle.

Also if you have been charting and suspect you are ovulating then I wouldn't do Clomid unless it is monitored. If you have scans you will get more information, and also I would recommend IUI (insemination) to circumvent that other potential problem of 'hostile vagina'. At least this way you are addressing some of the potential problems before you move to IVF. And although it is not free like Clomid alone, it is a lot cheaper than IVF and at our age there is a balance between cost and time . . .

Whew - bit of an outburst, but you post just reminded me so much of how I felt a year or so ago!

Me, I am on my last week of downregging, next week I should be starting my injections. Starting to feel a bit nervous about the failure of another cycle already, but also having flashing fantasy's about possible success. I hate the rollercoaster analogy, but it fits so damn well!

Goodnight, Sooty

sootykalucy · 22/07/2008 20:49

Hey JOC, 'hostile vagina' IS a medical term ! In fact my favourite part of TCOYF was the terminology of outrageous medical terms ! I also really like 'blighted ovum', 'inadequate pelvis', 'incompetent cervix', 'habitual aborter' and last but not least 'senile vaginitis'!

I really wanted to have an entertaining diagnosis. . . Unfortunately I have only boring old 'unexplained infertility'.

londonlottie · 22/07/2008 22:43

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JustOneCornetto · 23/07/2008 12:56

Hi Sooty, if it wasn't so close to the bone those medical terms would be hilarious Good luck with your treatment.

I'm just waiting to finish a course of the pill. Its seems ridiculous to be taking it given that I'm ttc but hopefully it'll help the cysts.

mowmi · 23/07/2008 22:35

Hi Ladies, can you believe it...I'm still in the flipping office (just waiting for a collegue to finish a report - yes there are 2 of us stupid enough to still be here!!)
LL how awful! I can't believe he would just dismiss you like that.
I love our consultant and the clinic we go to, it's so important to feel comfortable and involved - not dismissed by some doctor who's seen it all before!
Sooty - think you're going to beat me to it, I've been delayed starting phase 2 by at least 10 days (need my period to arrive!!) so we are currently working to EC date of around the 12th? How you doing?
Off to chase report so I can go home...

sootykalucy · 24/07/2008 12:52

Sorry to hear you have been delayed mowmi, I'm probably going to kick off before you now as I will take my last pill tomorrow. Then again, I will have to wait for my period to arrive as well (though I expect it will in a couple of days judging from past experience - when I took it for 'contraceptive' reasons - ho hum those were the days when I thought I was fertile!).

Wish I could summon up the optimism I felt for my first cycle . . . maybe it will come once I start injecting . . .

thelittlestbadger · 24/07/2008 13:10

Hi LL, sorry to hear you had such a bad time with your consultant - it can be very frustrating. Just caught up with this thread again, and would have to say that I have not heard good things about the Kings IVF protocols - apparently they automatically do egg retrieval and replacement on the same days for every woman - i.e. removal on the Monday, replacement on the Wednesday no matter how thick womb linings are etc. If someone has heard better stuff then that might help!

As for me, I'm on the 2WW at the moment after a first FET - one grade1 3 cell embryo replaced so I keep on symptom spotting and starting to get stressed about the whole thing. Ho hum, only another 5 days until the test!

swerve · 24/07/2008 19:34

tlb - ah the joy of the 2ww! symtom spotting is past-time i'm rubbish at. I've convinced myself it's not worked every single time, including the time it did (when i convinced myself into a glass of sherry the night before, completely sure it hadn't taken - it's amazing what I'll resort to when utterly desperate!). crossed fingers (not tubes)

Sooty, haha! I remember those days. I'd alway assumed I'd follow the family pattern - e.g. pregnant 3 times and only knowingly tried to conceive once.

As for me, I'm waiting for AF (maybe tomorrow???) so I can start the pill and get on the way for the next harvest. When did it get to be SO much fun??

sootykalucy · 24/07/2008 21:05

Hi swerve, thanks for that admission, I have developed a similar doomsday attitude with alcohol - not on IVF cycles - but when I was trying naturally I would drink in the last 'dangerous' week so I didn't get my hopes up. Ofcourse I didn't go crazy, but somehow having that drink kept the anticipation in check.

Glad to hear you are going to harvest, and also good luck LLBadger, you're in the waiting room alone, but we are all keen to make you a cup of tea . . .

NappyValley · 26/07/2008 09:45

Hi all am back from last attempt naturally on Clomid. We have our first appointment at the clinic (we chose the one nearest us and it seems really nice and friendly and such a refreshing change form NHS) in a couple of weeks.

Lottie I cannot believe your consultant. Mine was pompous but he did agree with the chart, although he did get a little floored when I queried his statement that "you are clearly not ovulating" and said, "why do a I get a temp jump then", "mmm good point" he said and we did a natural tracking cycle and sure enough I do ovulate and yes my LP is only 7 days and I don't ovulate until later in my cycle. but then my NHS consultant actually recommends FF and TCOYF! (I know what a surprise). It will be interesting to see what the private clinic says though.

The good news is that the clomid did bring my cycle into a better shape and is definitely worth a try if your other half's troops are up to scratch.

sootykalucy · 28/07/2008 13:05

Hi all,

I stopped taking my pill on Friday, still haven't got my period. I was wondering if any of you with any more recent experience of the pill knew how long it takes before AF arrives?

nomoremagnolia · 28/07/2008 18:39

Hi Girls - hope you're all ok
Having a nightmare trying to sort out what to do next - IVF clinic are keen for us to try ov induction but it should be available on the NHS, so I went to GP who referred me to hospital who have written to me and sent a prescription for 4 months of clomid through the post with simply a note asking me to get day21 bloods done on second cycle

JustOneCornetto · 29/07/2008 13:03

Hi Sooty, I've just come off the pill aswell but AF came in 2 days. Dr told me it could take a few days which to me means anything up to a week. Hope she's arrived!

sootykalucy · 29/07/2008 14:51

Yep, AF came today, now engaged in my usual battle to get information from the NHS. Should have my scan tomorrow . . Does this mean you are on going to start injecting too now Cornetto?

Glad to have you back Nomore, I can see you are engaged in your own information battles . . . good luck with the Clomid. I got a similar amount of non-information when I was on it too, just take it and see . . . seemed to be the attitude. To some extend why not ?

Are you lurking soosy? Or have you been packed away by the removalists by mistake?

nomoremagnolia · 29/07/2008 17:16

As always things change quicker than I can cope with and now the IVF unit don't want me to start on the Clomid (prescribed by fertility unit of local hospital) until they have had a chance to talk to us. They want me to be monitored on Clomid rather than left to my own devices. Can't complain really as there's not point doing Clomid unless it's monitored and at least they're interested in looking after me, unlike my local hospital...

NappyValley · 29/07/2008 21:27

NoMoreMag if you have not taken clomid before it is best to be monitored. For 1 they can tell if it has stimulate the ovaries into a probably 2 egg scenario (some people really really don't want twins) and also they can see if you are ovulating and when it is likely to be, so they give you a "go go go". But equally there can be major side effects and also the possibility of over stimulated ovaries in which case I think you have to stop taking it. But good news if your clinic are taking the matter in hand. I do find it scary that your NHS will just hand it out without any support.

nomoremagnolia · 29/07/2008 21:34

NV The local PCT were only giving it to me 'unsupervised' because they have prescribed it for me before (I did 6 months of Clomid before IVF). I'm still not entirely hapy about it and am glad the IVF clinic are going to pick this up, but the PCT are not as irresponsible as to give Clomid out at random (thank goodness)

JustOneCornetto · 30/07/2008 20:28

Hi Nomore, I've been a clomid user in the past (always monitored) and would second NappyValley's thoughts!

Sooty, I'm afraid I'm not injecting yet, I was taking the pill as i had cysts removed last month and this has hopefully kept them at bay. I'm going for a scan tommorrow to see what things look like.

sootykalucy · 31/07/2008 09:05

Hi all, pity you're not with me on this one JustOC, I started injecting yesterday. And how did you go LLB? Did you test yet?

Felt quite excited to start injecting again yesterday, I can only hope I get a better harvest this time. 2 eggs was rather disappointing after all those drugs. I am on a different, 'flare' protocol this time, and increased dosage, so hopefully we will get better results. Sometimes it seems very futile, like I am just exploring my options before giving up, and I have to remind myself that the whole reason these fertility clinics exist is because they do work (sometimes).

Onlyaphase · 31/07/2008 10:59

Hi all, good to be back here again. Lots of new faces too, looking forward to chatting to you all

Sooty - hope you do get a better result this time around. When is you first scan to check number of follicles?

JustOC - how did your scan go? Was this the baseline scan before starting stims?

I'm waiting to start downregging again in Sept. I've got to get more blood tests done in August for FSH and something else I think, so will need to speak to my new doctor to see if these can be done for free on the NHS - previously I've just had these done privately at the clinic, but would obviously (a) rather save the money if possible and (b) don't fancy a 500 mile round trip to the clinic twice this month. Has anyone had problems getting blood tests done by the NHS for a private IVF cycle?

BTW, I am terrified of having my FSH tested again as it was 9.7 last time (Nov 07) and I fear it may have crept up over 10 by now, which my clinic don't like....but in mitigation my two cycles this year have been OK on the egg production front so maybe this won't bother them?

Hope you all have a lovely sunny day wherever you are

sootykalucy · 31/07/2008 11:09

OAP nice to hear from you, I was wondering if you could explain exactly what they are looking for on a baseline scan. This is what I had yesterday and they said it 'was fine to go ahead' but I got out and wondering - what exactly was that about?

I have my next scan on Monday.

BTW did anyone read about the gay couple that both gave birth to twins in 24hours? 4 at once - I think they got more than they bargained for !

JustOneCornetto · 31/07/2008 14:48

Phew! just had my scan and the cysts have gone thankgoodness. We're off on holiday soon so have parked treatment for a cycle or two which also makes me nervous as the year is running by and I really thought I'd have had a baby by the end of it.....

Didn't read about that couple Sooty but may have to goodle it - wow, could be enough to turn me gay!

I had a blood test for FSH this morning too, but have no idea what the results mean. Can someone explain to me please??

I think a baseline scan is just to check everything is okay... ie no cysts (yep I'm obsessed with those at the moment) good lining etc but I'm sure someone else can give a more scientific answer.

soosy · 01/08/2008 22:27

Hello everyone, sorry to hear about you consultant LL I would be v cross.

Good Luck LB.

Sooty the base line scan is to check that there is NAD which means No Abnormality Detected! No cysts or anything unusual. So a few more medical terms for the dictionary.

FSH levels, they like the levels to be under 10 as the higher the level the more your body is working to ovulate. By the time you are hitting your menopause your FSH levels are out of sight, so it seems the being under 10 is a bit of a guess by the medical profession. BTW the first FSH drugs (and some now) are formulated from the urine of menopausal Nuns as the FSH levels are really high. TMI sorry.

Well still haven't made appointment at Lister, will they see me with DS, then I shall make an appointment before we move on the 1st Sept.

Night Night have a good weekend, going to a wedding tomorrow.

Sx

OP posts:
londonlottie · 02/08/2008 10:54

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EHM · 03/08/2008 08:47

londonlottie sorry to gatecrash I can highly recommend Geeta Nargund. This lady is wonderful

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