One year+ TTC part 3

[BritInNZ]

Hey ladies - new thread here we come! Changed it from 9 months+ seeing as we're pretty much all over a year of TTC now (boo!)

Feel free to add anyone else I may have forgotten 😊

@Carla2601
@lemons44
@LucyAnne34
@NatW2021
@Indianna2006
@KatieLooLa
@Hoping43
@Flyonthewall89

Newbies welcome too! Just a bunch of lovely ladies going through a tough time TTC and having a good old time venting and supporting one another 😊

OMG girls …. So last week we got DH’s second SA results back … I’ve attached both results so you can see the difference. Main thing to note is that he abstained for 4 days the first time and 2 the second time so morphology is much better!

Anyway, he’s been referred to fertility specialist for further tests. I just called the hospital to ask a few questions, as I wanted to know whether DNA frag test would be part of the investigations (answer was no) and how long it will take before we are seen … answer was 18 MONTHS TO 2 YEARS !!! Just for the referral !!! I am in utter shock and suddenly come to the realisation that these babies are going to be fecking expensive 😭

@Koalie I can't see the attachments/pictures? But that's amazing news that it's improved!!

18 months to 2 years? That's ages!! 😱What is that for.. just an initial NHS fertility appointment?

xx

Sorry … now attached. Yes @lemons44 thats literally the initial telephone appointment 😭

@Koalie im so pleased it’s improved but so sorry to hear about the wait. You could try complaining about your treatment to PALs (there’s one for each hospital I think) as that is completely unacceptable. This is going to sound really awful so please don’t judge me as I’m absolutely not making light of mental health problems but if you think it would have a negative impact on your mental health to wait that long you could also try that. It’s not the individuals fault of course it’s however many gazillion years of (Tory) cuts to the nhs but it’s so far from being good enough so I’d say use whatever you can to get that brought forward because that’s just crazy. That call lasts 15 mins so I just don’t believe nobody in the department has 15 mins in the next 2 years!

Hi @Koalie - what are the specialist tests you wish to be referred for? Even if he does have high DNA drag, unless it's caused by an infection which is easily tested with a urine sample, or a varicolcele, it is only treated by improving lifestyle and trying something like Proxeed (which I think he is using right).
When I asked about DNA frag, the doctor at Chelsea and Westminster said there was no point testing because we are going for IVF with ICSI which she specified was the treatment for high dna frag.

Morphology wise.... yes it is well documented that morphology is better with regular ejaculation so every other day is advised. I think the results are not too bad. Yes they are below the lower reference limit in some areas, but that absolutely doesn't mean you cannot fall pregnant and they are not disastrously low. How long has he been taking supplements? Is he taking the lifestyle side of things seriously? Remember sperm takes 72-90 days to regenerate so you won't really see marked improvements until this time.

@Carla2601 that is a good idea and worth a try I guess. Although the wait is due to there being such a huge queue in front of me so I’m not sure how far it will get me and it would be awful to think i’ve queue jumped ahead of so many other women struggling and waiting. It’s just so unfair to us all who pay our taxes for this service and are then told we can’t use it ☹️

@FlyOnTheWall89 so I’m not too worried about DH’s motility because he has such a high count and I know we can get pregnant now, I just have a suspicion that he has high DNA frag which is causing our miscarriages. So I guess what i’d like is for him to be tested for this to see how high it is and whether it’s the result of an infection or varicocele like you said because if it is either of these things then the Proxeed and life style changes aren’t likely to fix it. I had also read that ICSI doesn’t actually help with DNA frag, as it can’t be seen under a microscope but that having the sperm surgically removed would reduce the fragmentation, as it doesn’t have a chance to sit and fragment if that makes sense? So basically I just want to know more so that we can fix whatever our problem is one way or another. Writing this has made me come to the realisation that we just need to go private for these tests because I can’t bear the thought of wasting any more time or risking having another miscarriage 🥺

@Koalie okay. I would immediately lose the idea the NHS will help with this. They wont. Their stance will always be to send you for IVF rather than investigate the male because it's not cost efficient for them and there is no conclusive way of treating it - I can't remember if you're eligible for IVF.

How many MC's have you had? I don't think the DNA frag test is very expensive at all. I remember reading someone said to do the test before you go for a check up with a urologist because it's more cost effective that way round. To see someone like Dr Ramsay in London, it's £1000 ish for the check and multiple tests (you could opt out of some of them). I hadn't read about the link between high DNA frag and MC.

I know that IVF/ICSI isn't perfect for 'sorting' this problem out, but word for word that is what I was told by a top specialist. I think it's because there are very few things that can help that wouldn't be very expensive and only via a private practise - as you said maybe the extraction. Good egg quality can rectify high DNA frag so it isn't a dead cert that if he has high DNA frag that this would be the issue. It's more complex than that from what I understand.

Things to consider... If you did IVF for instance, would the DNA frag effect fertilisation or embryo quality or both, or would it not be possible to tell until the transfer? Maybe worth researching or trying to find the answer to that on the infertility board. They'll be a lot of knowledge about it I'm sure.

@FlyOnTheWall89 thank you 🙂 yes, hubby and I would be eligible for IVF. We’ve had 2 miscarriages and yes, high DNA frag can certainly cause miscarriage, as it causes genetic abnormalities in the embryo. I don’t think it causes a problem with fertilisation. Good point about egg quality rectifying DNA frag - I had read that actually but I don’t really know anything about my eggs 🤔 the DNA frag test is £500 where I am so I think we will just go straight ahead with it as the next step. I was also going to go private for a HyCosy to check my tubes after the ectopic but that’s another £500 and DH doesn’t think it’s necessary …

Thanks everyone for your thoughts! Always so helpful to be a part of this group 🥰

@Koalie whereabouts are you? I’ve heard some bad ones but that just seems outrageous. I’m also not sure I can believe that there can be two years worth of people in one area which is why I’d be tempted to push it but I totally take your point about queue jumping

I also think private tests are your best bet @Koalie although I totally get how annoying it is. We have paid privately so far and it is annoying considering how much we pay into the NHS each month 🫤

The one good thing I have found with private tests is you then have a follow up with a consultant who takes the time to really explain things for you. I have heard some people getting semen analysis done on the NHS for example and being given it without any other advice or support, which can cause worry and stress.

If we find sperm in DH, I am now considering private IVF. I'm looking into Access Fertility finance packages. They basically offer different money back packages, for example one of them you get unlimited IVF for 2 years and if you don't have a baby you get a full refund. That one is subject to medical review but some of the other packages have a % of money refunded if they are not successful and aren't subject to medical review. If you are considering private IVF maybe check out the website as it has made me feel a little bit better. It does exclude medication though.

I’d second @lemons44 on that although small note of caution on the cost of meds. They’re not included in any costs so we didn’t do access but it we did have meds excluded and they came to a small fortune (circa £2k) which I really hadn’t expected. This was at an expensive London clinic so might not be quite so much elsewhere but just if useful info for planning

@Koalie glad things are improving. As @FlyOnTheWall89 said, it will take some time to see effects after Proxeed/lifestyle changes. I too think going private is your best option as I haven't had good experiences with NHS waiting times. It just seems to take forever to get an initial appointment, then wait for tests, then for a consultation and it drags on. Seems unfair that we pay our taxes and yet not able to use it when we want the service. 2 years seem absurd! Thought they were through most of the backlog now.

@Koalie - great news that there have been improvements, i think as everyone has said private seems to be the best option for speed and efficiency. As @lemons44 said you will get the results explained properly and in detail and next steps. When i had my 10 min call with the NHS i was so disappointed as it was just so basic and didnt go into any of my results and what this could mean,

I have my hycosy on 25th and depending on results i have found a clinic that treats people with higher bmi (obviously i am still on my healthy lifestyle) so hopefully can try Letrozole soon. We have both spoken about going private for ivf if there is a problem with the hycosy as we dont want to wait round for NHS as it just seems to take forever. X

@Carla2601 We are in East Yorkshire! Absolutely ridiculous. thank you for the heads up re meds! Will definitely factor that in if we get to IVF stage.

@lemons44 I think the only fertility clinic we have close to us is access, unless we decide to go further afield so will def look into those packages! Thank you.

Thanks @Tinkerbell098 and @NatW2021 … I think we will go private if it turns out we need it. I can’t bear the thought of dragging this process out any more than we have to and am so desperate to just have our baby in my arms 😭

Hope everyone else is doing OK ♥️

Hi everyone

How is everyone doing?

I am 11dpo and think i can feel AF on the way 😫 i am more nervous now thinking about my hycosy next week, was really hoping for a miracle. I know i have to do it and i need to find out for peace of mind but feel really worried x

@NatW2021 don't worry too much about the hycosy. I was dreading it, but it really wasn't that bad. It'll be over before you know it.

I don't have good news unfortunately, the clinic told me they can't accommodate me this cycle, so am having to wait until September. I'm just so annoyed with my clinic/ my CCG at the moment, never really had a good experience with them right from the start. Their reasoning was that my CD1 was on a Saturday, which meant I would have had to have a scan and start my stims today and also collection would fall on the bank holiday Monday, for which they are closed. How the hell do they get around people having their period on a weekend (especially if you're on a regular 28 day cycle) and they definitely should have a system in place to handle bank holidays. I hate this, just wish we had money to throw away for private IVF.

@Tinkerbell098 - i know, i think i am worrying about the outcome as i am keep thinking why aren't i falling pregnant i am doing everything and nothing works.

Sorry to hear your update it must be so frustrating. I am worrying about this too and worrying NHS will you take forever, do we spend all our savings on the one thing we want the most or be patient for NHS. Just wish it was easier than this. Big hugs 💗 xx

Hi @NatW2021 .. see if you can switch your mindset around and instead of being nervous or think negatively about the outcome, look forward to it and see it as a positive. You’ll be able to tick something off your list if it’s clear and at least you will have clarity on this particular part of your journey whether it’s good news or bad. Have you thought about a DNA frag test for your hubby too? High DNA fragmentation can effect implantation too so might be something else worth exploring. 🤔

@Tinkerbell098 so sorry to hear you’ve been delayed again, that must be incredibly frustrating! You’re very lucky to be able to use the NHS funding though and so nearly at the finish line … 🤞🏼🥰

@Tinkerbell098 that's rubbish news and once you’ve got yourself all set must be so frustrating! Can you book yourself something non IVF/pregnancy friendly to do as a treat maybe?

Thanks girls. I went to the clinic today as wanted to clarify a few things regarding weekends and bank holidays and as soon as I saw a nurse I just broke down in tears. She was really nice, took us to a private room and listened to our concerns. She basically said it wasn't really the fact that my period fell on a Saturday (as the other nurse said), it was more the case that egg collection would have fallen on the bank holiday and theatres don't operate that day.

@Carla2601 yes, we've now booked a camping holiday next week, so hopefully will keep me distracted for a bit.

Just to update everyone..I’ve had my new BFP!

After 16 months of ttc. 11 cycles to fall initially and a mmc in April. A chemical pregnancy. And another 3 cycles and appears we have got lucky again 🤞🏼🤞🏼

Hoping this is the one I get to take home.

keep going ladies. Rooting for you all ✨

@NatW2021 you never know. Even if your tubes are open. Hycosy might just be the trick to help them swimmers get up there. Seems to have been a fair bit of success after a hycosy 🥰 don’t give up.
i know I was hoping when I almost had mine it would help 🤞🏼

@Tinkerbell098 sorry to hear of your delay. It feels like life is on hold doesn’t it. Just more and more. Keep going. Keep busy is all you can do. September will come around an then 🤞🏼 for some good embryos

@Koalie hope you’re keeping busy and trying to bide your time in your 3 month wait before you can start again. I’m certain your 🌈 will come too!

@Indianna2006 - Amazing news, so so pleased for you, hoping and praying all goes well for you - positive vibes 💗 xxx

@Indianna2006 i was just thinking about you earlier and wondering how you’re doing? X

@NatW2021 thank you. Deffo positive vibes. This is only the first hurdle for me 🤞🏼🤞🏼 Hoping this may be the time but what will be will be.

@Koalie well I was a bit of a mess. Struggling. Trying to think just keep going for now and now this positive test this morning even more freaked out thinking oh gosh will this one be okay. Not sure I can believe I’ll get the baby. But I need to try. For now I’m pregnant and very very grateful grateful 🤞🏼🌈