Fabulous forty + ttc and having success!

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Old thread just about finished. Here is a new one... Fx for lots of well earned BFPs for those ttc over forty. We also welcome stories from those who have successfully had their babies over forty and we love hearing back from our graduates.

OK, it’s time to say something. I'm afraid it’s the opposite of an uplifting good news story – and hardly the update I’d been longing to write. I’ve struggled for over a month just to get some words out. But as I’ve been grateful for the support and distraction of this thread for like, forever, I’ve finally summoned the courage to write about what’s happened lately ... before I have a little breakdown break.

Back in January I tried my first own egg IVF cycle (aged 46). Amazingly enough I got pregnant. Several early scans looked great – too good to be true – then just at the point I dared to hope I’d have my rainbow baby come 28th October, things started to unravel and ended badly.

On 11 April (11w +3d) my Harmony (NIPT) test came back positive. It spun me into an agonising nightmare stream of CVS, scans and consultations – with two top Fetal Medicine specialists, one obstetrician and a geneticist. I did endless online research (as best I could), talked round in circles with DP, cried rivers of tears and scarcely slept.

Finally with the result that on 20 April I had a TFMR (medical induction) of my precious, darling little baby – my desperately longed for little boy – at 13 weeks pregnant. He had Trisomy 21 with an associated cardiac defect and ... well suffice to say he was sadly very poorly.

I’ve found it hard to function ever since. I should be 18+ weeks pregnant, but instead I’m utterly broken. Last week DP and I went to our little boy’s funeral, our DD’s little brother. Hardly anyone knows about him in RL – it’s awful, I just want to scream ‘he was important ... to me!’

So perhaps I’ll write a bit more about the IVF, on the off chance anyone’s interested in that sort of thing, then separately about my pregnancy. But not the TFMR, which was unbearably awful.

It might be a long post, but hey, it’s not compulsory homework reading! Feel free to skip it. I’m absolutely NOT seeking sympathy or commiserations; maybe it’s just somewhere (else) for me to acknowledge my angel in a tiny way.

So this is my IVF cycle, started way back in January. The only people I told about it were my mum (as I needed help to collect DD from nursery) and one friend (a pragmatic post-doc biochemist). I never mentioned it here, as while I was unshakeably determined to try, I felt kind of sheepish about it.

Why not? Well first, there are so many hurdles/updates in IVF that I had a horror of making this thread all about ME – it’s not as if anyone would’ve been as obsessively interested in following the miserable state of my follicles as I was. Second, with my advanced age and borderline undetectable AMH, I was given only a tiny chance of a live birth (around 1%). Third, I suspected even if I did become pregnant, I’d become one of the 25 – 30% to suffer an early miscarriage and saw no reason to drag anyone else into the tortuous uncertainty of my waiting to find out.

It didn’t seemed promising, TBH. My baseline antral follicle count was VERY low, even for me – only 5 in total, when in each of the previous 4 months I’d had at least 9 – 12. (I knew this as I’d had U/S monitored cycles in a desperate last ditch attempt to support our ‘natural’ efforts.) Maybe the low ebb was worsened by acute stress from trying to buy our dream house – which we didn’t get, ultimately – who knows.

I coped better with self-injecting than I’d anticipated (225 iui Gonal F + Cetrotide) and made it to egg collection day with 3 large follicles and 1 smaller one. Literally as I walked into hospital I felt a stabbing pain and knew I’d ovulated. I was scanned outside theatre in my stupid paper gown; nothing remained on the RHS, so I was given the option to abandon, to save the collection/IVF fee. But I went ahead and they got 2 eggs from the left.

That was the day we found out DP’s sperm has such a high level of antisperm antibodies that neither natural conception, nor ‘ordinary’ IVF would work in a billion years, so we needed ICSI.

Of course, I’ve already moaned about DP’s antibodies on here, albeit in terms of having had a “consultation” at a clinic . Well, the embryologist did come to speak to us about it, me still groggy post-GA, so that part was true. I’m still annoyed it wasn’t picked up earlier – we wasted SO MUCH TIME trying naturally – but it’s NOT the IVF clinic’s fault. (As they’re in London and we’re 2+ hours away, our local hospital did DP an SA as a private patient, and sent the paperwork on. The results template was weird, it looked like they’d tested antibodies, but they hadn’t actually.)

Anyway, both eggs fertilised and 2 embryos were transferred on day 3 – appearance graded 1 (top) . No spectacular symptoms in 2ww, except AF type cramps (could’ve been the drugs) and a weird flicky rubber band sensation in my uterus one day, like having a twitchy nerve in your eye.

I caved in and tested BFP on 18 Feb, the day before my OTD. Yet another reason I never mentioned it here, that was the day Joeywife posted her second IVF had failed . It would’ve seemed the height of smug insensitivity to have said anything ...

So this is about my pregnancy, albeit I won’t talk about the TFMR.

After my BFP, it took at least 2 weeks – 12 HPTs and 3 private B-HCG blood tests (with normal doubling times of

So what on earth am I going to do next?

There’s still no second baby, but having been pregnant has messed with my head. Short version is after weeks of soul-searching, crying and ratty arguments with DP, we’ve decided to give IVF another shot – unless my ovaries are completely f**ked, which of course they might well be.

Believe me, we questioned whether it’s ethical to try again – including with genetic counselling and karyotyping. We already knew that of all the possible outcomes of IVF (a BFN, an early miscarriage, this trisomy or a healthy baby) what just happened was, mathematically by far the least likely outcome. But we felt it important to understand the recurrence risks too and now we do.

Ideally I’d like to spend a few months in recovery mode, but we have to push on fast if we’re going to try IVF at all. Then as if losing a baby wasn’t bad enough, I’ve just found out I have a 19mm piece of freakin’ retained placenta – FIVE weeks after the event – so my body still thinks it’s pregnant, aaaarrrggh!

I had the TFMR (medical induction) on 20 April. Apparently exemplary service from the NHS, but when HPTs were still positive 3 weeks later, they scanned me, found nothing, so just told me to expect negative test in a week or so. Then on 26 May, after a bleed which may or may not have been a period, I had a ruinously expensive review at the IVF clinic to say, er, you’ve still got a 19mm piece of placental tissue which is why your tests still say pregnant. And BTW your ovaries are doing almost bugger all, which might be because you’ve been pregnant since January, or maybe they’re packing up. Marvellous. Of course, it leaves me wondering how on earth the NHS sonographer, whilst appearing very thorough, managed to miss a 2cm chunk of placenta – and an opportunity to get this sorted a fortnight ago.

But whatever, I now need to decide how to get unpregnant.

The NHS hospital has now given me the options of:
(a) a second attempt at medical management, or
(b) surgical ERPC.
Medical has a fair chance of NOT fully working again, meaning weeks more in limbo and surgery anyway. On the other hand, I’m so nervous about surgery. Not from the perspective of having a GA (I really don’t care) but due to any potential risk of scarring/Ashermans – I don’t need to add to my long list of fertility problems, obvs. Apparently the surgery would be done at a different centre from where they do surgical TOPs (terminations), on a gynae ward where they only do ‘evacuations’. It made me oddly nervous about the experience levels TBH, even though they can do up to 2 a day.

I just wish I could get comfortable with the ERPC. I’m so terrified I was considering going private (would the procedure be any different) but would have to pay out of pocket (as uninsured), so may compromise ability to afford IVF in any case.

I know it’s a terrible subject, but I wonder if anyone’s had a similar clean up of RPOC, perhaps post-miscarriage? Any reassurance from survivors of an ERPC would of course be most appreciated.

Sorry, was an even longer post than I'd anticipated. Well done if you slogged it out this far, but totally fine if you pole vaulted here too. At least I've got it off my chest .

Oh Chewy, how heartbreaking .

Chewy I can't write much now but just wanted to say how sorry I am to read what you've been going through. Sorry too that it's not over yet despite having been to your little boy's funeral. I'll write properly later but for now and big hugs.

Chewy - there s no words for the utterly heartwrenching experience you ve had to go through with the loss of your beautiful little boy. Life truely can be so unfair.

It also must be so hard when external factors mean you can t take time to recover emotionally and physically before embarking on further treatment. Please write on here as much as you need and don t feel worried about it just being about you. If we can help just one tiny bit in this nightmare that you ve gone/going through then i m sure we ll all be glad that we could do something positive.

I don t have any helpful practical experience on the management retained placenta (FFS if it wasn t enough to lose your baby..) but hopefully someone else can help.

Bigs hugs

God Chewy - I have no words. Reading your posts I had tears in my eyes and I just wanted to give you the biggest hug. Just absolutely dreadful what you have been going through. Life really sticks the knife in sometimes and twists it. Truly cruel. Please vent all your feelings here - that is what this thread is all about. Support through the good times and the bad xx

Can't help with the retained products question unfortunely. I did have this after ERPC but it eventually came away of its own accord after 2 weeks. Can't believe this wasn't spotted with you sooner - as if you don't bloody have enough to contend with ffs! hopefully someone will be able to offer some advice soon. Sending you massive hugs - stay strong xxx.

Oh chewy you have been through hell and had to make what must be the hardest decision. I know you don't want to talk about it but just know that if you ever do, we are here. I am currently supporting a friend going through a similar thing at 12 weeks.
As for the Erpc question I have had one on the nhs and it was straightforward, painless apart from a bit of cramping and my Hcg went to zero within 2 weeks - about as long as I spotted for afterwards. There is always a small risk of damage and you need to let your lining build back up again before ttc but it's a far quicker way to resolve the issue given your time constraints.
I am all too familiar with trying again after a loss as after we lost Ruby, due to my age we started ttc again almost immediately. Be prepared for emotions to take you by surprise as you go through this again. But I would do exactly the same as you and have another go. You lost your dominant follicle by ovulating naturally. Next time that dominant follicle could be your golden egg. And DO share the boring details and the waiting and the worrying. So many of us have been there! Big hug to you of support for all you've gone through xx

I think I'm back to square 1. Bleeding a little, feeling somewhere between heavy period cramps and early labour.

Oh no paxillin . Really hope not. Have heard of lots of stories where bleeding and cramps can go either way... I know how horrible it is tho to be in this situation. Big hugs

Oh dear paxillin that doesn't sound promising but there is still hope as hula says. Hope this is just a minor problem and all is well

Oh paxillin I do hope not

I really hope not too pax. I'll be thinking of you this evening

chewy I am so so sorry to hear of your loss. I understand why you wouldn't have shared your pregnancy earlier. I think I'd be the same but I'm glad you feel like you can and even want to talk now. You have always been so extremely supportive of everyone else, it isn't fair. The circumstances also must have been terribly traumatic. Wishing all the best for you, your DH and your DD at this time. I totally understand why you would still want to push ahead now and can't see how it would be something you regret

Hello Chewy I've been lurking over the past couple of days, and just seen your posts and wanted to reply as I've had 3 recurrent mcs, with 2 X ERPC

Before I continue, after my 3 mcs I did see the incredible Profs Brosens and Quenby at Coventry and my DD (my first dc) is now 22 weeks and the only reason I'm lurking is because the thought of not providing a sibling for her upsets me and I will be 40 this year so age does concern me,.

Anyway I digress, I am so so sorry about the loss of your beautiful baby boy. I am new to the thread and was only starting to lurk but after seeing your sad thread I had to reply.

So yes, 3 mcs within 7 months. First one at 5 wks, and the other 2 both after 10 weeks, in fact after MC 3 we'd seen a hb and truly truly believed our little one was finally on his/her way and it wasn't to be. It's the hope that kills you, every time.

But the ERPC's.... For me, I needed them. The thought of passing my baby, however tiny was more than I could bear. I just wanted to close my eyes, for it to all be over. To open my eyes and it be done. So I could grieve for my babies.

It was so quick, think more time was spent faffing about in anaesthetic than actually being under. When I came round, there was no pain at all. If anything, my knees felt stiff from being in the stirrups clearly (getting old!!!) but that was it,

There was minimal blood loss for both ERPC's, I mean literally a few spots. I neve got an infection, never got any cramps afterwards. It just wasn't there anymore.

MC 2 I started bleeding before the op, but MC 3, was a missed miscarriage and I still felt pregnant, had morning sickness (plus we'd seen the heartbeat) so to wake up and almost be no existence was a very strange feeling.

So if God forbid I ever found myself in the situation again, I would not hesitate to have an ERPC. Couldn't give a flying fuck about yet another general anaesthetic - for me the ERPC is all about mental recovery as well, I wanted to just close my eyes. So yes I'm a survivor of 2 ERPCs and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again if I ever had to. I was also worried about scarring and Ashermans plus I have a thin lining which Prof B confirmed for me, but I also had a hysteroscopy performed by my amazing rmc consultant to check for any damage and all was ok. Yet another general to add to the list. I actually had gallbladder surgery last week, with yet another GA. the anaesthetist was like WTF???

Re us trying for a second, I'm terrified, the thought of potentially facing down the barrel of a 4th miscarriage makes my blood run cold and I think if we did decide to brave it, I would be 40 by the time we tried again, and if I had a 4th, that would be it. I cannot sustain loss after loss, and now I have my DD - I will thank my lucky stars and think that will be it. After all 4 mcs in 5 pregnancies are pretty shitty statistics,

I'm so so sorry for your loss and the terrible decision you had to make on behalf of your beautiful little boy. I really am and I hope you and your family are ok. I hope my experience has helped even a little

Chewy I hope you are hanging in there, it's such a lot to process. Fwiw if I were in your position I would opt for the erpc. If I were unlucky enough to suffer another mc I would opt for that or letting nature take its course; as you know, medical management didn't work for me. It was a painful waste of time.

I fully understand the time pressure to try again. It's what I would do and did do after my mc (another reason not to op for medical management as it dragged on for ages). As said previously, it will stir up a whole raft of emotions but we don't have the luxury of time do we? I am thinking of you and hoping the coming weeks are as easy as they can be given the circumstances.

On a separate note, I am sorry that you went through this process 'alone' and that you felt you couldn't share your initial good news on the thread. Obviously I can only speak for myself but I find people sharing news of a a bfp encouraging and I am genuinely happy for them. I might feel a little wistful that it's not me but it spurs me on and helps me believe it could be possible. If this thread were only a 'bad news' thread it would be a shame I think. So I do hope that if you decide to do another round of Ivf we can be there to support you if you want it. Your choice though obviously.

Welcome Brummiegirl, I'm sorry for the losses you've suffered and can understand you feelings on ttc again.

As for me, I'm cd14 today. Last night I was starting to get a bit crampy and I did another opk at 10pm and got a positive. It was a good thing I did as this morning's was negative and I've had some painful cramps which make me think I ovulated about 8am. Dh and I dtd last night based on opk and will again tonight. We will have done cd8, 12, 13 & 14. Not an impressive performance but hopefully at the right time! And so begins another tww...

New to this whole TTC idea - and to all the abbreviations. Please could someone take pity on me and explain? I clearly have a huge amount to find out very fast.
Relieved to find there are other people out there in their 40's but very saddened to read some of your experiences.

Welcome Nefer795. Are you ttc your first? Which abbreviations are you not sure of?

Not quite got to TTC stage yet, need to get through moving house this month but think I need to start planning now as I'm 44. Second marriage for us both, neither of us have children and DH is desperate for a family. I have worked out the really obvious TTC and DTD, also what AF is but not what it stands for. Other than that I am clueless. I had no idea it was this complicated, especially as I am so old. Worry about being too old to be a good parent, more chance of one of us dying and leaving child without a parent and the social aspects of not being the same age as other parents in the area. Also about the child being bullied at school for older and very uncool parents. On the other hand, if I don't have a child my father's family will end as there is no one else to continue which seems a sad ending to past generations. Never thought I wanted a child so I am finding this quite difficult and very emotional before I've even started trying. DH is a good, kind person and he will make a wonderful dad.

Thank you all. Pregnancy is over, 6 weeks. Waiting for neg HPT again. Will restart right away. I had a miscarriage just before a successful pregnancy last time. I was a lot younger then of course.

I wouldn't worry about being an older parent, Nefer. Plenty of 50+ parents at my 8 year old's school gate. AF stands for Aunt Flo from South Park. She came once a month for a week and drove Sharon potty.

I'm so sorry paxillin

Nefer795 if I were you I would quickly decide if you definitely do want a child and if the answer is yes then start trying straight away, no need for planning. At 44 (also my age) there's no luxury of time. It might happen straight away or it could take months, at 40 it took me 14 months to conceive my son. Best of luck to you both.

And if you do want to ttc then I would recommend you get some ovulation predictor sticks (opk's) so you know when is the best time to dtd. There's a fair amount of info in the information sheets that come with them if you get Clearblue ones.

Aunt Flo. Wasn't she one of the characters in Bod? Thank you for the reassurance about other older mums. It has been really worrying me. Much research going on today.

So sorry paxillin, gutted for you.

Welcome Nefer - i second what abs said about cracking on if u do want kids. Don t worry about being an older parent. My ds is 4.5 and just started school and alot of the parents have had their kids in their late thirties/early 40s, that said it seems to get harder (tho definetly not impossible) in mid forties so why cracking on is a good plan.

Abs - looks like you had good timings this month. Fingers crossed its 'the one'.