Forty and over trying for a first baby - join us here

[JessieMcJessie]

A year ago today I started this thread

Any 40+ladies out there TTC #1?

and, 1000 posts later, it has filled up with the shared experiences of various fantastic women who find ourselves hoping to start a family after the age of 40. And listen out Daily Mail - not one of us deliberately "delayed motherhood" to concentrate on our careers or frivolous pursuits. By and large we just didn't meet the right person (or decide to go it alone) till we were quite long in the tooth.

Trying for a first at this age has its own special challenges. The old thread contains its fair share of sad tales of early miscarriage and disapointing test results. However it is also a great place for success stories and positive thinking and it has been a lifeline for me over the past year.

Although those who already have a child or children and are trying for more in their forties are welcome to join (and we absolutely understand the real pain of secondary infertility), part of the value of this thread is the opportunity to share experience amongst those of us for whom failure will mean no children at all, rather than a smaller family than we'd like. It's also a place where we all share a sense of total uncharted territory where pregnancy and childbrirth are concerned!

There are a number of stalwarts who have been with me from almost day one and I hope you'll join this new thread too, but we all hope to graduate eventually to the pregnancy boards so new joiners are very important! If your fortieth is looming it's fine to join a bit before.

A newish poster asked last week if people could post their "stats" and I think that's a good idea. So I'll kick it off (feel free to include whatever info you feel like giving):

Jessie McJessie 42, TTC since October 2014 (13 months) having only met my DH at the tender age of 38. 2 chemical pregnancies, one blocked tube, low AMH, one failed IUI, 1 failed IVF and about to start our second IVF. Just moved back to London after 6 years in Hong Kong.

So, off we go. We have a special skill at scouring the media for stories of celebs having babies over 40. And there's no such thing as TMI .

Kwick you asked Loueeza about why she chose to have 2 transferred. I had 3, so you might be interested in my reasoning. 3 is allowed by the HFEA for women over 40 and given that multiples are generally seen by the IVF regulators as a bad thing putting extra strain on the NHS and risking women's health I figured that they must have researched outcomes very thoroughly and concluded that the risk of multiples was low. So if they are saying that they expect a 1 in 3 implantation rate then it follows that the chance of getting a baby at all must be higher if you return more than one.

For my first IVF they told me on transfer day that the third one wasn't up to much anyway so I wasn't that worried about triplets. I felt that twins would not be ideal health-wise but would be manageable, but I may well have felt differently had I not been in a relationship. As it turned out it failed and the doc told me that it probably meant that all my eggs were duds, so for the next round I was even more sure that the chances of 2 or 3 good 'uns were fairly low. Whic seems to have been the case.

I suppose if the clinic get a few good embryos they can always freeze the others and you can do them one at a time. I got a slight sense thought that frozen was not as good as fresh.

Regarding your cousin though, I think that the genetic propensity to non-identical twins is a red herring. Non identical twins are when you ovulate 2 eggs at the same time and the gene will be something that affects the ovary and makes it produce extra eggs compared to the average woman. In IVF you are artifically stimulated to ovulate loads of eggs so what your ovaries do normally is irrelevant. I doubt very much that a genetic propensity would control how many embryos are likely to implant in the uterus.

On the other hand if a woman is genetically prone to identical twins (where an egg splits) then if the splitting can take place after the transfer I suppose that might make a difference. Not sure if there is a genetic element to identicals.

Jessie - hope you're still feeling well, have you got a scan date yet?

Mind if I ask you - and/or anyone else who has experience of this - a couple of IVF-related questions?

Please don't laugh, but I'm considering a cycle of OE IVF, yes even at my age. I've contacted three clinics who will still try it and whilst I'm fully appraised of the doom and gloom stats (having had them thrown in my face on several occasions), I've settled on one of those clinics. So here goes.

1. My baseline AFC was lower than normal this month. I've had countless scans over the last 6 months or so (long story) and my baseline AFC's had seemed quite stable at around 10 (sometimes 9 - 12). Then this month bang, only 6 in total (4 + 2). The nurse said that sometimes you get more follies coming up once you start stimming . Has anyone ever had this - i.e. more follicles/eggs than you started with? Would you consider waiting for a better month, or just run with what you have?

1. What day did you start stims? I've been told I will start on anything between day 2 - 4; which apparently is literally just an admin thing as they can't start everyone on the same day. If it ended up being Day 4, that sounds really late? This is for a natural start though, perhaps with estrogen priming beforehand, as I wouldn't be down-regged / long protocol.

1. Did you carry on taking DHEA/Co-enzyme Q10 until egg collection, or beyond? I've been taking DHEA and I'm thinking if the IVF didn't work, unless I stopped trying altogether, then there'd be a big break in DHEA for another cycle.

Hope you can perhaps help shed some light on this? (I know there are IVF threads, but seem full of youngsters, so I'd be a bit embarrassed to post on those)

Hi Chewy. If you've found a clinic willing to try own eggs, and you can afford it, it's worth a shot.

Quick answers to your questions:

1. My clinic were not very specific about counting follicles and discussing numbers with me. However I don't think any new ones appeared on either cycle. Most eggs I got was 7 so you are doing well at your age with 10 some months.

1. Started day 2 or 3. I'm sure they wouldn't suggest 4 if it was clinically likely to reduce chances. I was short protocol too.

1. I know what you mean re the gap but I didn't want to have any med in the mix that they were not prescribing me so I stopped taking DHEA when I started stimms I think. Co q 10 I saw more as a supplement and took it up to transfer.

When will you start?

No scan date, still waiting for midwife service to contact me for booking in- auto reply to the referral form said could be up to 5 days and it's only been 4 but hope I have a date before the end of the week as getting really impatient.

Kwik, I think Jessie has answered your question about 'why 2?' much better than I could, but the reason I personally went for 2 is quite simple - that's what the embryologist recommended.

Totally agree with everything Jessie said - that the chances of 2 or 3 implanting is really very small. I think if you're under 35 they prefer to transfer only 1 because the chance of you getting twins then becomes much higher.

Still, of course I'd love twins, so I like the idea that there's that slim chance!

Jessie - my test date is 9th Feb, which I think is a week on Tuesday. For the moment I'm enjoying not having anything to dread for a little while. I'm sure I'll feel differently in a week or so though.

Chewy - again, I think Jessie's answered your questions really well already, but here's my take ...

1. If I were you, I wouldn't wait for a 'better' month. The doctor initially told me she was looking at getting about 10 eggs, but in the end they only got 6, of which only 4 fertilised (yup, nailbiting stuff!) If there's one big thing I've learned from this first IVF cycle, it's that you can never guarantee the numbers - and it doesn't necessarily really matter all that much anyway when you're talking about fairly low numbers generally. One person might get more eggs, but end up with nothing on day 5, someone else might get fewer but get a couple of decent ones to transfer. And then of course you never know which embryos are going to get you a BFP or not, whether you had slightly higher or lower numbers at the beginning.

1. I did the long protocol (which I really didn't enjoy!) so started down-regging on day 21, then stims about 10 days later. I wouldn't worry about this, as I'm sure your clinic know what they're doing.

1. I was told to take the DHEA until egg collection. I stopped after that because I thought I could probably do with having a bit of a break from it anyhow. I've read some articles that say you shouldn't take it for too long without a break.

It sounds like you have a pretty good AFC though (10 is much better than I had - I only ever had 7, like Jessie).

Definitely worth a try, Chewy - good for you!

Jessie, did you have any symptoms from the progesterone? I'm feeling a bit pre-menstrual today. Obviously it's too early for any symptoms good or bad from the embies!

Thank you, thank you, thank you! Responses very helpful and have given me definite food for thought.

Apologies for my ignorance but what is DHEA? I tried to get coeq10 today but think I need a health store not Boots. Probably a bit late but willing to give it a go.

Kwik, DHEA is a hormone that's naturally produced in the body but diminishes as we age. Some believe it can improve quality of eggs - to the extent that IVF clinics are advising older patients to take it for about 3 months before treatment.

Not sure if it worked for me or not - we'll see I suppose!

I got both my DHEA and COq10 from a company called Biovea. They were the company the clinic recommended :-)

I have been taking Ubiquinol (the good quality co q 10, supposed to be absorbed better).
I don't know if it helps as I have nothing to compare it to. I have very low AMH, only 1 or 2 follicles seen on test, but I got 2 eggs, both of which fertilised last time. Let's hope for quality over quantity this time!

I am paying in cash for treatment, so I just stood in line which tons of local folks changing money for CNY, to get my Euros. I am looking at the small pile of money and thinking of all the hope I am putting into it. Yikes!! Getting scared now!! Fly on Monday!!

Thanks Loueeza and Daisy - very helpful. My clinic has said nada - will enquire today :)

Daisy best of luck!!!! Please let us know how you get on!

More on DHEA here Kwick. Also in the "Starts with the Egg" book I recommended to City upthread.

I remember those lines Daisy. Lots of good luck vibes around HK at Chinese New Year so hope they all rub off on to you. Have a safe trip.

I've now got my midwife appointment for next Tuesday. No scan, just bloods and forms, but hopefully I'll get my 12 week scan date then. Feeling a bit sick today - good .

Thanks Jessie I will read up later.

I had my DET/3D SIS today - will be back in on Tuesday for a hysteroscopy and D&C as there was a bit of the cavity doc not happy with. Feeling tired, sore and bit ambivalent. Think I just need some time to process (and free up Tuesday and Wednesday at work - which are my only 2 travel free days next week!)

Hang in there Kwick . Have had very depressing day today. Misread a pregnancy test and thought the control line was aying I was pregnant - thought that was the case for 2 hours, bought some more and then worked it out - embarrassed and down to earth with harsh bump. Feeling very sad. What's the DET/3D SIS you've had?

FexEx and Amazon parcels arrived yesterday with my supplies! Been talking about trying DHEA long enough and finally bit the bullet.

Oh wotsit been there a few times and allowed myself to get all excited. It's so cruel and you can't help feeling daft afterwards.

Wotsit so sorry. I have had my hopes raised and then dashed before with a BFN.

The Dummy Embroyo Transfer and 3D scan - they mimicked the procedure they will do when they transfer the embryo(s) and then they out some dye up my ladygarden and did some 3D images. The DET bit went well; the 3D scan showed an un-even wall of my cavity - which could impact implantation.

Feeling a bit delicate today. Need to get my arse off the sofa though as have a lot to do!

That's the exact DHEA I had Annie!

Talking of lady garden.... Better get things in order before I fly to Cyprus!!! Hahaha
I bought DHEA, took it for a while, for the life of me I cannot find the bottle now, I took it as a sign. Hoping the Ubiquinol will do good things

Thanks everyone. Feeling okay(ish) today. Was just strange to think for two hours that it might all work out. A lot of strange thoughts went through my head that I now have to park. Nothing like having a mc or some of the things you've all been through - can't imagine what all of that is like. Anyway, have had a few glasses of wine and will pick myself up, brush myself down and start all over again (well in about 5 days as the beloved AF arrived today right on schedule).

Hope the vino helped a bit last night wotsit. It's hard all this. Don't be too hard on yourself. Our minds play tricks on us because we are so desperately wanting it to be true. Sometimes when I had an evil evap line I think I knew deep down it wasn't real but let myself get excited and start dreaming and visualising a real baby. I think it's good to go through the whole realisation thing, even though it's not an actual bfp because it helps you to practice what your feelings might be in the future.

I sound a bit of a hippy now. I'm teetering on the brink of my learning from the self help section of Waterstones!

jessie I'm taking one pill in morning and one in evening (50mg a day). Is that what you took?

I also have this waiting for post- ovulation. NOT looking forward to taking it as worried I'll be a moody cow but needs must. This is natural progesterone.

Also taking 75mg aspirin and folic acid daily. Oh and my cod liver oil capsule.

Just need to remember to dtd!

2 morning, one evening so 75mg Annie. Probably what the Rebecca Fett book said.

Thanks for your comments on the stims Jessie / Loueeza - lots to think about.

Annie / Jessie - snap, I have the same DHEA too! Interesting how you took yours Jessie. I've been trying to take the 75mg as three separate doses, because I think that's how I've seen it written about. But because I have to take Thyroxine in the morning and there's lots of picky rules about how long you must leave it before eating/taking certain other tablets, I haven't been taking the first dose until noon. Then spacing two further separate doses is a fiddle, so I invariably forget one of them. So maybe taking two together is the way to go. It obviously worked beautifully for you Jessie! Did you read anything yourself about how to take it BTW?

Wotsits - I'm so sorry that the pregnancy test played such a cruel trick on you - horrid. I agree with Annie though - hope it's a trial run for the real thing very soon. I doubt I'll explain this very well, but you've probably heard of positive visualisation as a tool used by sportsmen/women. Maybe you could use this type of thing in a similar way to help think yourself pregnant - the power of positive mindset and all that?

I don't know if you've ever come across this lovely book by Claudia Spahr, called "Right Time Baby"? She has a -website- too. She certainly walks the talk, because she had her own children at 40, 43 and 45. She believes that the difference between wanting to get pregnant and believing you'll get pregnant is critical - it's hard to maintain though, for sure.

Loueeza - still have my fingers firmly crossed for you, of course, that 9th Feb will bring you the best ever news possible x

Hi all just catching up with the thread. Jessie glad you have got your midwife's appointment through - hope all goes well with that.

Loueeza - I have my fingers crossed for you too. Hope you are feeling well.

Wotsits - sorry about that pregnancy test and about AF arriving. Is horrible isn't it? Hope you get your bfp soon.

DH and I have decided we are going to go to the doctors. I thought that I'd be OK with trying and then if that didn't work I would just accept that we wouldn't have children but it turns out that I don't think I will be able to accept it! Thought DH might not want to go to doctors but he suggested it so now have to make the appointment and see. I'm also a bit worried have left it too late and we'll have to go private if we want ivf but it's better to find out now isn't it rather than later.

Chewy - I am going to try that positive visualisation as well. Thanks for that suggestion!

Midwife today. Scan booked for 17 Feb, will get Down's test bloods done on same day. She seemed fairly nonplussed about my age and even had me down as "low risk" at one point but then changed her mind and said she'd better put me medium. She didn't comment on whether she sees many over- 40s. It was quite funny when she said "er I have to ask this, is there any family history of er, piercing or cuts "down there""? I looked a bit blank and then had a lightbulb moment- "you mean female genital mutilation?". "Yes, that's it," she said, "but I'm not allowed to call it that...". I reassured her that the clans of central Scotland were not traditional practitioners of FGM. Glad the NHS does ask the question but it was quite funny.

There was a bit of discussion about birth experience and I said I had not really considered it- I simply can't bring myself to read up on birth at this early stage and can't actually imagine ever getting there. Will cross that bridge much later. It was WEIRD sitting in a waiting room full of women with big bumps, I absolutely do not feel one of them.

Weird thing happened- there was some NHS video playing showing a newborn baby getting skin-to-skin contact. In the film there was a midwife with a Scotish accent who said to the baby"say hello to your Mum and Dad" and I actually burst into tears when she said it. WTF? I am hard as nails normally, don't even cry at funerals!

Also feeling sick again today and bone- achingly tired. Happy with that.

Hope everyone is OK - you're halfway through the 2ww now Loueeza. Good trip so far Daisy? Glad you're going to the docs City and great that DH suggested it.