Strapping on our lady balls and going menkul because we HATE THIS SHIT!! The Berries: a lovely bunch of 30 something Ladybros TTC #1

[happylass]

The small print:

The Berries have strict entrance criteria: TTC #1 for 12 months+, over 30, NO instadiffers, must have a special pimping pot and absolutely no mention of baby dust/dancing. Not that we're fussy!

Current Ladybros:

Minx 35 - TTC 2.5 years. Stage 4 endometriosis, both tubes blocked, 1 buried ovary, IVF #1 started Aug '15 at Mustache Towers, if all goes well results due mid-Sept.

Smidge 39, TTC since Jan '13. Unexplained. Some high NK cell immune treatment. IVF#1 Short protocol Jul'14 BFN; IVF#2 Nov'14 and IVF#3 Feb'15 both Long protocol BFNs; Natural FET Jun'15 - Another BFN. Trying to work out what to do next.

Happylass, 37, TTC since Aug 2012. 2 failed ICSI cycles, 1 failed FET and 1 abandoned cycle due to poor response. Hoping to start antagonist cycle mid September. HATE THIS SHIT!!

Beaky 35, ttc 3 yrs, 2x failed iui 1 long protocol ivf cancelled, 1 short protocol IVF BFN, very low amh etc etc. In 2ww for 2nd sp IVF.

Tigerdog, 35, ttc since Jan 2013. Unexplained. IVF #1 chemical pregnancy. Currently redoing tests in preparation for IVF #2.

barkingtreefrog 36, ttc since Dec 2011. clomid bfp summer 2013 then mc @7 weeks, iui bfp summer 2014 then mc @6 weeks. Factor V leiden thrombophilia diagnosed at the repeat mc clinic. IUI bfn Jan 2015, IVF bfn April/May 2015. FET bfn August 2015, remaining frozen embryo perished. Pursuing private tests and then long protocol ivf in Oct/Nov.

Lumen, 35, ttc since Nov 2011, unexplained, two IVF cycles in 2014, both bfns, waiting for lap&dye and results of numerous bloods, aiming for one last IVF cycle.

Kuma - 40. TTC 2.9 years. Low AMH high FSH - DH antisperm ABs. Failed IVF June 14 and March 15, cancelled cycle June 15. Last try September 15

Lucieloos, 36, TTC 18 months, low AMH & sperm motility. ICSI#1, April 2015, Czech, 2xblasts transferred, BFN. Icsi#2, cancelled before EC. Icsi#3, 2 mature and fertilised, both to blast and frozen. Icsi#4 in October, embryo banking.

Rain, 34, ttc since March 2012. unexplained. Mystery bfp oct 13, MMC Nov 13. IVF#1 Aug 2015

Sesame, 40, ttc with no dp, on this road for 2 years, multiple failed IVFs, 3 ETs, 1 bfp then mc, poor responder with v low AMH, but still looking for the golden egg.

nolly, 33, TTC 3 years, 1 confirmed MC, 2 more suspected. still in limbo

Spare, 34, TTC 3 years, IVF#1 short protocol + ICSI August 14 BFP but pregnancy loss at 20+ weeks, 3 failed FET, IVF #2 short protocol + PICSI August 15

Funkymonk 33. Ttc since October 2012. Mc June 2013, Mmc dec 2013, mc June 2014. Factor v Leiden thrombophilia. Abandoned IVF Jan 2015 due to thin lining. Abandoned FET Aug 2015 due to thin lining. 4 embies on ice. Cycling again November time I think.

Clem, currently on 3rd Clomid Cycle

Pip - quite simply the Best In Show.

Rain that is quite amazing, she must have been over the moon! Yes we are unexplained, Hope you're doing ok this week. I'd say don't worry too much about having a couple of months off, by the time you have one cycle off you'd be pushing on for Christmas anyway and January isn't a bad time to start. Sometimes we do just need a break. I'm surprised they don't give you an actual appointment but at least you get to ask your questions. Did they say why menopur? I usually get gonal f and am just wondering!

Clem sorry about the announcement, it's the pits.

Sesame thanks for the info, I think I'll stick with my current vit regime for the moment, but add in omega 3. I just wonder if there's another reason given that I've never had a bfp and whilst we've been trying for 3 years, I've not used contraception for 5. Anyway, well done on signing up for a 10k! I've stopped running during this last 3 weeks so I need to get on with it again. I've had 2 iui's and the success rates are very low, but I don't see why it wouldn't be worth a try.

Elise would you try some of the supplements that are supposed to be good for egg quality? Sorry to hear what they said, about potential success with oe.

Smidge any word from AliG? It would put me right off if I couldn't ever get to speak to her and it potentially delayed another cycle. Hope your cystitis has cleared up!

Barking when do you get your results from the immunes testing?

Waves to Nolly how's things? Any update on your referral?

Minx how are you doing? Any updates or noticeable symptoms yet?

Tiger how are you doing? Are you coping ok with the waiting? How's the running going?

I've booked a mate date of cocktails and nice food for this weekend and I can't wait! Clinic on Thursday for bloods and then hopefully I'll get a fairly quick follow up. I wish we could get more answers to all of the questions about why things aren't working!

Oo I've been offered a consultation with a Prague clinic! Not sure what to do now

barking I've been trying for around 5k every time I go out, but have been gradually building up the distance, and running a bit more regularly over the summer in between failed treatments. So I ran my longest ever run, which was just about race distance at the weekend. I think I wanted make sure I could do it, before I signed up. I'm still a bit unsure of the race element, cos I'm used to going out on my own, and not being in a big crowd. I only started running with c25k about 2 years ago, and I never managed to sign up in advance for a race before, as I was never sure where I would be around treatment and gave up running a bunch of times because of it.

nolly hiya, how's things going with you just now?

beaky I think it might have been spare gave me the idea for taking Omega 3. I'm really sorry you've had to go through all this shit. But a mate date sounds really fab, hope you have a lovely time. Have you still got one more NHS round to go? Seems like you do still have a lot of questions, and perhaps it can't hurt to have a second opinion from Prague, if you've been offered an appointment?

Thanks for the sympathies berries. Cystitis got worse so I rang and managed to get the last doctors appt for the day - so glad I did coz it got worse still and then was peeing blood . Got some antibiotics but after 2 days of them it's still v uncomfortable (but no longer agony thank goodness). Hopefully they will kick in big time overnight.

Sorry clem and barking are having similar issues too. Really doesn't help with any plans to get jiggy with it.

sesame I don't really know on the IUI debate. I was advised not to bother, and go straight to IVF as it has better stats. However if they are struggling to get more than 1 egg yet you ovulate normally and no tube blockages etc, then I can totally see why IUI might be a worthwhile option. I mean, presumably under those circumstances the success rate would be just the same - but at a lower cost and a LOT less impact on your body.

Does anyone know what DHEA actually does? I think I remember being told it gets your body to produce more progesterone but I can't remember. I'm going to run out of tablets in a week and wasn't sure if it's to improve egg quality or implantation. (If implantation, I've probably taken it way too early as I'm planning to have a freeze-all and delay the FET!)

smidge Thanks, DHEA is meant to help improve numbers and quality of eggs for poor ovarian reserve or age related infertility. Can't remember how it's supposed to work not sure if I ever knew but I think it's meant to increase the number of follicles that can be recruited each month. Really hope you feel better once the antibiotics do their thing.

Sorry. I know someone a while ago was interested in what my clinic suggested for females, as the list of vitamins I wrote out was what they recommend for the men. It's nothing specific, all very generic so there's no equivalent list to type out. If you can read it from this photo I've tried to attach it!

Beaky, spare and rain so sorry to hear of your bfns. It really sucks this whole ttc and process.

Beaky, which clinic in Prague do you have the consultation with? Is it gennet? I would definitely accept it and see what they have to say and then decide from there.

Minx, congrats on the bfp lovely, so pleased for you and hope things progress well.

Sesame, I did a lot better on the antagonist protocol compared to flare so hopefully it will work better for you. Do you have any male fertility factors? If not iui could be worth a try although I think the success rates are quite a bit lower.

My meds have arrived for my next cycle and due to start northisterone tomorrow to delay af a bit. I will be happy if it arrives anytime from Wednesday onwards next week. Here we go again!

Evening Ladybros. Just popping in quickly to say I am here and following goings on - just no time to post! Work is beyond mental. WAG are conducting an audit in to MFL teaching and have asked ESTYN to randomly inspect a selection of departments - guess who's been chosen? . That's on top of the whole school inspection that could happen any minute. Hate this shit almost as much as the other shit!!
So, normal service will be hopefully be resumed next week. Hope everyone is ok. Lots of appointments seem to be planned - glad everyone is moving forward. I cancelled my baseline yesterday as no sign of AF. I'm guessing the 10 days of stabbing has screwed things up a bit there. I'm glamping at the weekend so no doubt she'll rock up when I'm stuck in the middle of a field in the back of beyond!

Hello Berries, can I join?

Was encouraged over here by the lovely Pipbin. I've been around a while, was a JSer (oh those hopeful days), and now I've been referred for IVF.

I'm 37, have severe endo, frozen pelvis due to adhesions bloody everywhere, and a chocolate cyst that was removed 3 months ago but has come back already . Also poss male factor, but essentially we're both pretty fucked.

Feeling a bit raw, afraid, and pretty downhearted about it all. You lot sound like total genius experts, so I hope I can learn lots from you about what is ahead of me.

and for everyone, you can call me Googles

Hello Googles make yourself comfy.
Pull up a cake.

Lots of us have had a load of IVF and it can be very confusing. We'll talk you through it.

Smidge that sounds horrendous. I hope you are feeling much better soon. When will you be starting your next round? Did you get past the evil secretary yet? Yes what Sesame says about dhea - it's supposed to help egg quality and response. I stopped taking it after ec.

Sesame wow your running is going well if you can knock out 10k! I've done a couple of 5k's and what Minx said about the atmosphere etc is totally right. Also I read something recently not constantly consulting Dr Google at all atm about flare protocol being detrimental to egg quality? I hope the antagonist works much better for you. I've got one NHS round left, so fx for that one!

Lucie yes it's Gennet. Did you do your consultation with them? Was it any good? I'm just a little reticent but I think I'll go for it. Great news that you're starting again already, I hope you get a better response this time too.

Minx I think I would have to poas every day as I just wouldn't be able to believe it! Not long til your blood test though eh! As far as I know it's Skype, but I've emailed back to check. It's a good clinic so I asked to be put on the waiting list when I thought I couldn't have any further NHS rounds.

Thank you Pip, and hi everyone else. And congrats Minx nice to see some good news here!

I have a newbie question. How long does it generally take from referral to starting IVF (privately most likely), and how long do you have to wait after a failed attempt to try again?

Am I naive to think that if I set myself a limit of 3 cycles, even if they all fail all of this might be over within a year?

Argh! How do I always cross post! Damn phone.

Ungoogles welcome, and for the absolutely shit time you've had. What is a frozen pelvis if you don't mind me asking? Boo to the effing cyst too. These ladybros are so ace and so so supportive. It's the best place while in this shit!

Waves to pip

Happy great that you can get going again now, but boo to the extra stress of assessments! Wtf. Don't they know you've got more important things to get on with

Hi beaky, no worries about cross posting - I feel bad for just butting in and going HI EVERYONE, WHO WANTS TO HEAR ABOUT MY OVARIES?!?!

So since you asked, I'm more than happy to explain. Frozen pelvis is where your endometriosis has got so bad and been left so long (yeah, thanks for that my GP who told me it was IBS for years when I told her I knew it was endo) that adhesions (scars) have formed over pretty much everything. So my bladder, bowel, ovaries, uterus and everything else is stuck together in one deformed mass.

Usually with endo, they perform a laparoscopy and burn off the endo and snip away the adhesions. With mine, they went in, went 'oh fuck', and sewed me back up again. Didn't touch it as it was so bad.

So that's reassuring! Chances are, if I'm ovulating, my ovaries are so bent out of shape that the eggs probably just float off into the ether never to see a fallopian tube!

Beaky I know! You'd think they'd realise that TTC/IVF is a full time job in itself!! I really don't have time to be doing extra work in my actual RL job
Googles sorry you find yourself here but you'll find a wealth of experience amongst these wise Ladybros. I had short protocol fresh cycles privately in September last year and then February and I had a FET in May. Totally realistic to fit 3 cycles in a year I think, although long protocol obviously eats in to time a bit more. My FC requires you to have one natural cycle in between treatments (so the bleed after IVF, then a natural period then start stabbing on cd2 of your next cycle) but other clinics have different criteria I think. In terms of how long you have to wait, again it differs. Privately I had to wait 10 days for an initial appointment but after that I could have started treatment straight away (I didn't as I was getting married). My NHS wait on the other hand was 18 months . Have you got any private clinics in mind? It may be worth sending them an email to ask a few questions. Whereabouts are you? I'm sure someone could recommend a clinic in your area. Good luck!

rain glad you've booked yourself a fuck
this shit holiday. You deserve it. Hope you're doing ok. We'll be cycling together maybe as I'm not going to get going till Nov realistically.

clem how are you getting on with your ivf thinking and clinic choosing? Are you midlands based or am I making that up?! I had my first round at BWH if you want any info.

spare how are you doing? Sending you lots of Berry strength to get through this shit.

barking I know you've said but when are you kicking off? I basically got take Co-Q10 from it starts with the egg. My acu lady said I wouldn't need dhea but I'm wondering if I need to after my crappy embryos...can crap embryos be 'caused' by less good sperm iyswim?!

Ladybros! Have been slightly awol as things are so busy at the moment.

beaky my love are you having your blood test today? Will they also discuss next steps? hoping for a miracle which is probably not helpful The gennet consultation sounds worth doing - they might give a fresh perspective on things. Good to keep options open. My running is going slowly....currently choosing catching up with mn over getting my kit on and out the door! Getting fed up of waiting - called the clinic again yesterday and was firmly informed that I'm on a list for cancellations and they will call me. If my appointment was just two weeks earlier then I reckon I could get a cyvle in before Xmas - which would be ideal.

Impressed at the 10k sesame! I'm only on week 1 of couch25k after not running for several years. Think I might find one to sign up to....you've inspired me!

Good luck with this next cycle lucie I hope it all goes well!

google come on in and grab a seat on the pouffe of possibility. This is the best place to be whilst dealing with this shit. Support abounds! Sorry to hear your struggles - can I ask why you don't think you will get NHS funding for ivf? Whereabouts are you?

Happy that all sounds mental....good luck! Do you know when you might be doing your next cycle? Glamping sounds ace, enjoy! I might need your advice - want to do a long weekend in Wales in mid Oct, somewhere romantic and dog friendly - any ideas?!

minx everything crossed for you. When's the blood test? I think these early days are tough!

Oh Smidge yowsers that sounds like agony. Poor you. Have only had cystitis once and defo not like that. Are you feeling any better after the anti-bs?

Waves to nolly - any news?

Sorry if I've missed anyone - am on the phone in bed and am suffering from iPhone elbow - my arm is getting stiff!

Afm, DP has decided that he wants to become DH after a 4+ year engagement and an aborted elopement due to his family going apeshit. So we are planning away like mad to make it happen early next year. Partly because we now know we get 2 more NHS funded rounds and the financial pressure is off somewhat. After 10 years together it seemed about time, and it would be great to celebrate a bit in the midst of a bit of a tough patch. Of course, the dream is I'll walk up the aisle pregnant, as everything falls amazingly into place (haha) but even if not it gives me a good project to get my teeth into.

Also have been busy at work and enjoying a bit too much if the good life - am out most nights at the moment. After this weekend and a very nice anniversary dinner (tasting menu and matching wine!) I am going into full on ivf prep health mode, and will be yamming the vits, off the booze etc etc.

Right, better get up otherwise I'm going to be late!

tiger that's lovely news!!! Will you be planning to elope again or going for a party style do? Love a bit of wedding planning, make sure you're sharing dress pics with us! I think we'll be Jan/Feb realistically. I'd like to start with my Jan cycle but we have a weekend in Iceland mid-month which might balls that plan up. Will have to wait and see I suppose. These infuriating HFEA guidelines mean I also have to book in to get all sorts of bloods re-done over Christmas too.

welcome googles - i recognise your name from the wonderfully cathartic thread on the Infertility board, you've got the best crowd in here. Lots of knowledgeable and supportive women with no twee platitudes or babydusting crap. I'd not heard of frozen pelvis before either, hopefully you'll find a clinic that has good experience with endo - you're north east right? I also have no idea what a chocolate cyst is, I'm guessing it's not edible...

smidge yowch, i really hope you're feeling better.

minx wasn't it gil who constructed the most beautiful colour chart of IC piss sticks from daily testing to reassure herself she wasn't imagining it? Perhaps you could do the same! Glad you're feeling well, long may it continue!

Love getting a visit from pip, you're Berry royalty! Hope you're well

beaky and spare still sending you both tons of hugs. I'm having a black day today, not sure if it's hormone crash still or just part of the failure process but I just feel tearful about bloody everything! I am getting annoyed with myself! Still, AF is on her way out so at least DH and I can get back to 'normality' for a bit soon. beaky when will the Skype consultation be? Is it free or do they charge you for it?

happy much as it will be a ball ache in a tent (even if it is a glamping one!), I hope AF turns up soon

to everyone I missed

The letter from the clinic arrived, it was pretty scant on info tbh. Basically they confirmed that they see the issue as egg/embryo quality and so next round will be short protocol, 300iu of Menopur (I was on 225iu during our last round) plus something called cetrotide? No idea what that is as I haven't had a chance to do any googling yet. They haven't recommended any other changes but I did ask the nurse about adding CoQ10 - they said that's fine but didn't comment on whether they think it helps or not. I know DHEA is for age related quality, but should I ask about that too?
Could someone briefly explain the different types of short protocols to me? I know there's a few (e.g. agonist/antagonist) and I don't really understand which one I am doing or what the differences are!

Oh dear, I was still in the 'Candle Smugglers' thread

Summary:

I'm 36, TTC#1 for almost 7 years. We have no children. First 6 years was off the pill no monitoring, then 10 months using the clearblue ov tests.

Went to to the docs January and had the D1 and D21 blood tests, triple swab test and fiancé has had his sperm tested. All tests came back normal. We're referred to the fertility clinic.

One (surprisingly large) vial of blood taken, transvaginal ultrasound and HSG completed in May.

Been for the results in June, the good news was that my womb is not made of lime jelly and it's in good shape, I'm ovulating normally and I'm in pretty good shape generally. The other news is that I need a laparoscopy and dye test to check my tubes as left is totally blocked by something and the other is pretty narrow. Waiting list for surgery is three months. Once we know what they've discovered during surgery, we'll have a better idea of what our options are.

Had laparoscopy and dye test this Tuesday but also ended up having:

Hysteroscopy - examining the inside of the womb
Adhesiolysis - remove/divide scarred adhesions
Right Salpingectomy - removal of right fallopian tube
Left Salpingotomy - preserve the left fallopian tube

Basically, all of my insides were very fucked up and stuck together. They said it looks to be from an infection I must've had many years ago. I'm on a shed load of antibiotics.

I've got four incisions (above belly button, above both ovaries and one right on my bikini line) drinking tons of peppermint tea and moving about like I'm walking through treacle. Tender as buggery!

The doctor has said IVF is the way forward so waiting for initial consultation meeting to come through, about six weeks.

Right now I feel like a gigantic weight has lifted of my shoulders because I now know there is a definite reason why I couldn't conceive naturally. They shown me the pictures of my tubes and Christ, they looked like raw chipolatas!

Aw, big squeeze and a paw hold from me rain. This is the really shit bit, and I'm sorry you are having to go through it. Chin up tits out - it will get better. Interesting that they are recommending short protocol for you now - I had a very similar response but my new FC indicated that they would likely continue with LP.

Going with a party otherwise the in-laws will disown us - have already looked at some venues and have narrowed down the dress to a couple of options. Will share some pictures!

Cross post Antonia and welcome back. Glad you've got a diagnosis and fingers crossed that ivf will work it's magic for you.

Tiger woohoooooooo! That's fantastic news, a berry wedding! Yes share dress pics, that was my favourite part Hope you're ok otherwise, and that you get going soon. The cancellation list needs to be shorter!

Rain sorry you're having a shit down day, it's totally understandable and frankly we are all amazing that we are managing to get through this stuff. You have a lovely couple of well deserved holidays to look forward to though! Now with dhea, it's for poor responders with low ovarian reserve, not necessarily age related. Also as I understand it, if your ovarian reserve is good, it's NOT recommended, and so you should stick with coq10.

Short antagonistic is my protocol, it involves injecting stims from around day 2/3 of af, and adding in cetrotide which stops you ovulating, from day 6/7. Then you keep on with both til your follies are big enough and trigger, then ec etc. it's fairly simple and is thought to be better than if long protocol oversupressed you, and you may get more follies.

Ungoogles are you north east?? that frozen pelvis sounds awful! How painful too. Have you selected a clinic yet? Would you be NHS?

Antonia hello! Oh my god! What an absolutely awful time, but yes at least you've a diagnosis of sorts! The jelly and chipolatas are now gone and your womble is ready! Hooray!

Thanks Tiger and congrats on the wedding plans!

Hello Beaky! I'm just glad that the shitty 'What's wrong with me?!' period of this very long initial TTC is finally over I've got a few weeks to wind down before I start worrying about the whole IVR process. Glad to see the back of the raw chipolata!

Bfn confirmed by the clinic. I've managed to get a follow up for 2 weeks time after the one offered was end of October - I asked if I can get my final cycle done this year so fx.

Going away next weekend to visit family so I'm going to drink and eat lovely stuff and then be super healthy again. It's a shame we don't live nearer so that we can have a berry running group! That would be good motivation!

barking ‘twas me that asked for the clinic advice, thanks. I think I already try to do most of that nutrition wise, so no miracle cures for me...

lucie thanks, no male factor, but clinic has used ICSI cos of a previous fertilisation failure, so maybe that’s a consideration. Good luck with the new cycle and fx for a perfectly timed af

minx thanks for the tips. No news is good news. I also pimped every day after my bfp and stuck them on a piece of A4. Do you return to the fc for a blood test?

happy hate this shit when work gets in the way of the real life job. Hope af rocks up soon, and isn’t too much of a glamping inconvenience.

googles hey there, welcome on board. You made me laugh with your who wants to hear about my ovaries? . Sorry about the frozen pelvis and useless gps and all that hate this shit nonsense. Yes, what beaky said about 3 cycles in a year being possible. So what are your next steps?

beaky thanks, I was def spurred on to do some of those extra summer runs by some of the berry chat. Sorry there were no miracles today, but glad you’ve got your follow up in the diary and you’re already planning your next cycle.

tiger Thanks, wowsers for the wedding planning. That really is great news, and it would make it extra lovely if you were diffed! If you were getting an ok number of eggs before, then I wouldn’t bother with the DHEA. I'm only taking it cos my eggs have pretty much run out, and I’m starting to warm to unproven, unscientific treatments. I’d suggest stick to the unproven, unscientific CoQ10 for now, as at least it’s meant to be well tolerated and unlikely to cause any harm.

rain sorry you are feeling so crap right now, hope it won’t last. What I said to tiger about DHEA - I just read Robert Winston’s views on the subject and I’m dithering myself about it now. In all protocols, you need a drug to stop you ovulating. This is either an agonist (like Buserelin) or an antagonist (like Cetrotide). Both drugs act on the pituitary to supress your natural LH surge (which causes ovulation) - the name agonist/antagonist just describes the way the drug interacts with the pituitary receptors. For LP, you used Buserelin to downreg first, to shut off all your natural hormones before adding in stims. In short antagonist, which is what your fc suggested for next time, you kick off with stims only at the start, then add in the agonist a few days in, the Cetrotide should act straight away on your pituitary to instantly stop it from producing LH.

antonia hi, nice to meet you, sorry about nasty surgery , but glad that clears your womble and the road ahead for IVF.

Thanks for the running support ladybros! I’ve actually not managed to go out for a run since I signed up for that 10k! Of course, it’s pissing down here now, so I’m lacking a bit of motivation to go out later too. I could definitely use some berry running group motivation!