Strapping on our lady balls and going menkul because we HATE THIS SHIT!! The Berries: a lovely bunch of 30 something Ladybros TTC #1

[happylass]

The small print:

The Berries have strict entrance criteria: TTC #1 for 12 months+, over 30, NO instadiffers, must have a special pimping pot and absolutely no mention of baby dust/dancing. Not that we're fussy!

Current Ladybros:

Minx 35 - TTC 2.5 years. Stage 4 endometriosis, both tubes blocked, 1 buried ovary, IVF #1 started Aug '15 at Mustache Towers, if all goes well results due mid-Sept.

Smidge 39, TTC since Jan '13. Unexplained. Some high NK cell immune treatment. IVF#1 Short protocol Jul'14 BFN; IVF#2 Nov'14 and IVF#3 Feb'15 both Long protocol BFNs; Natural FET Jun'15 - Another BFN. Trying to work out what to do next.

Happylass, 37, TTC since Aug 2012. 2 failed ICSI cycles, 1 failed FET and 1 abandoned cycle due to poor response. Hoping to start antagonist cycle mid September. HATE THIS SHIT!!

Beaky 35, ttc 3 yrs, 2x failed iui 1 long protocol ivf cancelled, 1 short protocol IVF BFN, very low amh etc etc. In 2ww for 2nd sp IVF.

Tigerdog, 35, ttc since Jan 2013. Unexplained. IVF #1 chemical pregnancy. Currently redoing tests in preparation for IVF #2.

barkingtreefrog 36, ttc since Dec 2011. clomid bfp summer 2013 then mc @7 weeks, iui bfp summer 2014 then mc @6 weeks. Factor V leiden thrombophilia diagnosed at the repeat mc clinic. IUI bfn Jan 2015, IVF bfn April/May 2015. FET bfn August 2015, remaining frozen embryo perished. Pursuing private tests and then long protocol ivf in Oct/Nov.

Lumen, 35, ttc since Nov 2011, unexplained, two IVF cycles in 2014, both bfns, waiting for lap&dye and results of numerous bloods, aiming for one last IVF cycle.

Kuma - 40. TTC 2.9 years. Low AMH high FSH - DH antisperm ABs. Failed IVF June 14 and March 15, cancelled cycle June 15. Last try September 15

Lucieloos, 36, TTC 18 months, low AMH & sperm motility. ICSI#1, April 2015, Czech, 2xblasts transferred, BFN. Icsi#2, cancelled before EC. Icsi#3, 2 mature and fertilised, both to blast and frozen. Icsi#4 in October, embryo banking.

Rain, 34, ttc since March 2012. unexplained. Mystery bfp oct 13, MMC Nov 13. IVF#1 Aug 2015

Sesame, 40, ttc with no dp, on this road for 2 years, multiple failed IVFs, 3 ETs, 1 bfp then mc, poor responder with v low AMH, but still looking for the golden egg.

nolly, 33, TTC 3 years, 1 confirmed MC, 2 more suspected. still in limbo

Spare, 34, TTC 3 years, IVF#1 short protocol + ICSI August 14 BFP but pregnancy loss at 20+ weeks, 3 failed FET, IVF #2 short protocol + PICSI August 15

Funkymonk 33. Ttc since October 2012. Mc June 2013, Mmc dec 2013, mc June 2014. Factor v Leiden thrombophilia. Abandoned IVF Jan 2015 due to thin lining. Abandoned FET Aug 2015 due to thin lining. 4 embies on ice. Cycling again November time I think.

Clem, currently on 3rd Clomid Cycle

Pip - quite simply the Best In Show.

Nolly you'll be a little bit ahead of me then

Sesame massive hug for dealing with that dickhead of a woman. Was she from Care or do you not know at all? I'd totally avoid her. I'd also say get the level 1 immunes done - that's pretty much what I've just had but within NHS boundaries. They also identify any potential implantation issues so far as they can. Re the whole low amh and age thing, I'm sure you've read plenty on this and you know yourself how unreliable statistics are, but ivf does work for people in a similar situation to us low amh/poor response some times. A consultant who was genuinely willing to look at what's best for you with your history is always going to be best. Did you speak to anyone at create or lister?

LWC - I went to have a look as they had a big stand at the show and they invest heavily in self promotion. There were no mini consults on offer - they didn't bring any clinical staff to the show as apparently they couldn't convince their teams to give up their weekends. I thought I would mention as while a lot of fc's were showcasing their clinical excellence, it was interesting to see a clinic solely represent the glossy marketing side. A reminder that this is a baby business after all.

There is a LWC nearish to me actually and I had been considering a consultation with them. Interesting to hear their approach - I don't think their success rates are particularly high from what I saw though.

Sesame loving all the info. Thank you so much for sharing. Do you mind me asking what your AMH is? Just wondering if I'd be advised to give up!! We have a LWC near us too - in fact it's the only other option for a private FC here besides the one we went with. My only real reason for discounting them was because they are city centre and it would be a ball ache getting to appointments - that and they didn't have a price list on their website.

Happy, even though you have a low amh you still get a good number of eggs retrieved so I don't think there would be any reason to give up. I don't think you can look at one element alone you have to look at everything combined e.g. Age, fsh, other blood results, afc etc.

Sesame all the info is very interesting. My clinic also recommends pgd testing for older women. I know some that are doing it. I have one biopsy frozen from one blast and will take biopsies from any other blasts just incase I decide that I want to do it. I think it's the way forward to be honest. If you can identify a chromosomally normal blastocyst then age becomes irrelevant.

Yes Lucie my FSH and LH are/were both in the normal range and even my AMH was actually ok (although on the low side) for my age. My theory is that's it's low because of my left ovary which hardly responds at all. We've pretty much decided that we won't be paying for any more treatment with my own eggs though. We'll obviously take another NHS shot if it's offered to us but then it'll be on to donor egg.

Fellow Berries!
I have sent a lovely lady this way. She posted asking about what is likely to happen in her first doctors appointment. She worried that being overweight and 37 they'll send her packing.
She's called Sylvie and I hope she turns up soon.

beaky thank you! Yes, the dickhead consultant was from care – they had me down for a very generous half hour mini-consult, but I ended up leaving after about 10 minutes. Re. LWC, please don’t let me stop you checking it out. As I said I didn’t see any of the clinical side and it could be worth exploring whether they might offer you a different solution for your particular issue, and whether they appear to have a good team and lab. I guess my more general bugbear is about fc’s who advertise heavily, e.g. on the tube, and whether this is really appropriate for fertility treatment as a whole. I do think that choice and a little healthy competition are a good thing however – my region is actually very NHS dominated (the same hospitals offer both NHS and private) and I get the impression the whole service is too much one size fits all as a result. Is it tomorrow your consult with Gennet? Good luck!

happy, thanks, my AMH was 1.9, although tested almost 2 years ago. To be fair, the advice to give up wasn’t just my AMH number, it was because I only produced one egg in the last round, and it’s unlikely I would get much more than this in any future attempt. Is your diagnosis male factor? If so, I think it's worth getting an opinion on whether sperm or egg (or both) might be causing problems with treatment and which option out of donor egg, sperm or embryo would give you a better chance of success. Of course this is all silly, hypothetical chat, as you're going to get your bfp this time.

barking aw, thanks, the diagnosis was also based on egg count. I think she was insensitive and dumb and didn’t base her figures on anything. We all know that a women who only produces one egg at a time can still get pregnant, they just have a lower chance of success for IVF . I think I’m going to investigate testing. I’m still crossing everything for you.

lucie thanks! I think pgd does have its place, I’ve just seen opposing views and as a result I’m personally not convinced that the technology is the right thing for me. There are some short videos from Centre for Human Reproduction, for example, here and here. Mind you, CHR are also critical of blastocyst culture and the embryoscope, but love DHEA (and the Directors have shares in a pharmaceutical company which makes and sells it...) .

pip hiya, thanks for the referral! just to say, you’ve written some inspiring posts on the ‘mindnumbing/boring treatment thread’, where I like to lurk sometimes.

nolly really glad that you’ve finally got some treatment dates. Are you doing anything to get yourself ready for IVF?

For next steps, I’ve spotted a different clinic where I might be able to get some new tests done (it’s not a full fc, they just do testing and outpatient stuff). I just need to get myself organised to ring when they are actually open and inquire about what they do, prices etc. I also have posts on the remaining clinics I spoke to – Lister, Create, Serum and Kings still to upload. Then I could probably use some help deciding what to do, as my mind is currently swinging between hope and absolute depression several times a day.

Hmm that's interesting sesame, they are basically saying that the results might not be correct. Although studies which have retested hundreds of thousands of embryos found only a 1.8% error rate so I would take that with a pinch of salt. I'm not sure if I want to do it yet. My theory doesn't really make sense but if I have 6 blasts tested and only one or two turn out to be normal I don't want to put myself under that pressure that we only have one or two and then it's game over. I think I would find it easier to have 2 untested transferred and if they don't work know that I have more to try again with. Sounds like you have a lot to think about. The way I see it is its all about keeping on trying until you find that viable egg. I don't think much can be done to help with numbers of eggs but certain protocols can help with quality. As we get older there will be less viable embryos so it could take many attempts. It then comes down to how long you are willing to keep going and your financial means to find the golden egg. I know a lot of women who couldn't keep going and then took the donor route and have never looked back and wished they had done it a lot sooner in hindsight.

Sesame my DH has anti sperm antibodies affecting 90+% of his sperm so that is our official diagnosis - although we were told this makes it more difficult to get diffed naturally rather than completely impossible I hear you on the one size fits all service. The private FC I used was set up less than 5 years ago and they are all staff that worked in the NHS FC so the protocols are exactly the same - no chance of us trying something different.
Lucie that's basically what Amanda said to us when I asked if we should have further tests. She said she wouldn't advise anything else, there's nothing to indicate any issues with sperm or egg quality and she thinks that it's just a numbers game for us. But that's exactly the question - how long do you/can you keep going in the search for that one viable embryo??

Morning al

How is everyone today? Exams are over and now it's time to start packing so we can move house.

Started orgalutran this morning and I forgot how much it stings. Off for yet another blood test and dildocam appointment.

Beaky how was your appointment or is not tomorrow there yet?
Nolly glad to see everything is trundling along.
Happy I'm in a similar boat but am looking at donor embryo.
Sesame what an utter cow (spell check corrected that to under cow )

Ooh crap just realised the time. Will finish writing more later.
It's a 50 minute drive to my nearest ultrasound and pathology clinic!

Happy, I believe in a bit of both. I think you need to wait for the viable embryo but I think it's important to rule out any other problems as well in the meantime. It's impossible to say just by looking at a nice blast whether it's ok or not. The only way to know is to do the pgs testing. That way if the embryos were coming back as viable and it still wasn't working it would give an indication of immunes or lining.

Serum - quite a buzz around this stand and they brought a v big team over. I got a mini consult with Penny herself. For own egg she recommends a clomid only cycle. You take 150mg per day from day 2 right up till trigger. The clomid by itself will stop you ovulating so you shouldn't need to add anything else. They then trigger once you have an 18mm follicle with pregnyl. Taking clomid in this way effectively wrecks the lining so these cycles are frozen only. They then will grow your eggs to blast before freezing (I'm not convinced about blastocyst culture for low egg no.s, but they obv don't agree). You then come back later and do a natural fet so you can optimize the conditions for transfer.

Interestingly, they suggested a 15% success rate, which sounds good to me and might have been the highest on offer for me at the show (mind my own fc suggested something around this figure if I do their protocol). She also suggested that for ages 38-42 she does own egg and that donor is usually for older women.

Before I do anything though she wants all patients to do the hidden infection test. She doesn't think it matters if I haven't been ttc and failing, she still thinks I could have an infection, and suggested that the low amh could be linked. If this is identified you get antibiotics. I'm still a little skeptical about this tbh. Berries, do you know is this something other clinics do too? And does everyone who does the test test positive?

After that she wants every patient to have a hysteroscopy or an aquascan. They can do on the same visit as a clomid freeze all cycle.

Overall she gave me the impression that they will do whatever they can to get you pregnant. Own eggs or not. e.g she threw in some unusual variations eg iui plus fet in same visit. I don't know how evidence based their approach is, but I understand why this it is an option for some women. What I don't know at the moment is if I am one of them - especially given the risks about travelling all the way to Greece for just one egg, which might not be recovered and then might not survive to blast.

Pip! Hello lovely yes of course Sylvie would be very welcome if she would like to pop in! I hope you're doing ok.

Sesame Serum sound canny from that chat. I haven't seen the clomid cycle recommended anywhere other than there. They always recommend hidden c tests too, but I've not had that done. I think it's cheap enough if you were interested. I find the iui & fet idea interesting. I totally understand the worry of flying all that way and the costs when there's only one or two follies though. Have you had a hysteroscopy yet?

My consultation was fine this morning, they've recommend I have a hysteroscopy too and also some further tests. I can start with them after they have been done. The puppy jumped up in the middle of it all and gave them a good sniff on the screen!

Happy how's the 2ww going?

Sesame, I have found serum so knowledgeable and they really tailor their protocols to the individual and carry out a lot of monitoring when your cycle begins. It's very scary going to blast with only a couple of embryos, I've done it twice now but I agree that there's no point in transferring them if they don't make it that far and it saves the heartache of the 2ww with something that was never going to work. I have had the hidden infections test with penny (there is also a consultant in London who offers it but sends them to Greece to be analysed) I have raved about it since as I always used to have very short cycles, only 22 or 23 days and ov'd really early. I had tried lots of things to try and lengthen it but nothing worked. Serum strongly recommended I have the tests as they thought an infection could be the cause of the short cycles and lo and behold once I had finished the antibiotics my cycles changed to a perfect 28 days. I know it could be a coincidence but for the price of the test i would definitely recommend it. It doesn't do any harm.

Beaky, was your consultation with Gennet?

Happy, I'm so crossing my fingers for you this time.

I had some good news this morning! I has a call from the nhs and they want me to go in for my consultation on the 3rd Dec so only 3 weeks away!! I'm really pleased. I still want to try and do my next round in Jan in Czech though so I can hopefully get a couple more blasts frozen. Happy, you will have to tell me what the process is. What happens on the initial consultation? Will we have more bloods etc done? When will this happen? I asked how long until we can start and she said it would be up to the consultant on the day but he may tell us to book in a date on our way out! She said they are trying to get women 36+ seen quicker now. We are entitled to 2 full rounds plus any frosties so very pleased!

Congrats lucie that sounds great news, a real step forward.

Am finding all these reviews v interesting, although prob not very relevant for me anymore as we're firm on this being our last EC and then FET(s) to follow. I've been getting on a lot better with sniffing the syneral this time. I can conclude ladies that syneral does NOT give any symptoms. So my larger boobs last month were definitely down to my very short lived 'spontaneous' pregnancy. (AliG's word - should teach her about the FUFC acronym)

Blood test tomorrow to see if I've been sniffing properly or whether the drug's no longer effective having been left out in the warm too long last month... Then AF is due a couple of days later and on to the stabbing. I think I'll have to break it to MrSmidge soon. He has been enjoying having his head in the sand and pretending we're not having one last attempt.

Ooh, in non-ttc news, I saw Prince Charles and Camilla today, being driven across the Harbour Bridge to Kirribilli. Got quite excited and wanted to tell people, as if I actually know them just coz I'm English or something . Daft. I used to live in Windsor and saw Queeny quite often from afar, so somehow felt as if Charlie boy would want to stop for a chat! Ha ha ha! Doofus.

How are you doing Happy?

Any more news on embies?

oh spare I nearly missed your amazing news!! Congrats! Do you get a blood test/HCG levels done? Have you done any more tests?

beaky I’ve seen clomid only cycles being used elsewhere, usually for ‘mini ivf’. Glad that beakypup was fully consulted this morning! I reckon a hysteroscopy is a good call, that’s one of the core diagnostic tests that R Winston recommends. What are the other tests that they suggested? And did they say anything about protocols/treatment? Sorry to keep you in suspense with the remaining updates. They’re on their way!

lucie thanks for that. My cycles are also now very short, so interesting to hear the difference. How does it actually work to do the test by mail, and where do you get the antibiotics from? And how much were you charged? Great news about the NHS cycles, it’s great that you can finally get going with these, and get diffed and off this thread!

happy yes, that was the case in my first private fc, run by NHS staff and 5 minutes away from the main hospital, the med director would do private in the morning, then clinic, then disappear off to do his NHS rounds. And it was the same protocols too. How are you getting on in your 2ww? When is OTD and do you plan to test early?

grin stay away from the under cows! Hope you had a good dildocam - any follie news to report?

smidge, nice to see you rubbing shoulders with your royal pals! Glad the sniffing is going ok - good luck for your test tomorrow.

seasame sounds like you found the exhibition to be really useful (apart from that 1 horrible woman you spoke too....why do people in this field seem to be totally unaware of the psychological impact what they say can have on us... ...I think we'd probably do another exhibition (this time having had tests such as AMH/SA so that we know what our figures are and where we stand and would be better positioned to talk to them about what they advise.

beaky thanks for ovulation test info.

happy how's PUPO going?

pip keeping an eye out for sylvie

hi to everyone else.

waiting for the results from my ovarian reserve tests and dh's SA...going back next week to talk through all of this with them then.

been to the docs and asked him to refer us for IVF (the NHS funded one) and managed to get my level 1 immunes checked via the GP last week too...had a bit of an odd call from the surgery, saying doctor wanted to see me for a 'routine' appointment next week. now brain is racing about what it could be to do with (jumping from something found with the level 1 immune blood tests to funding being pulled)...all I can do is wait, and try not to drive myself mad in the meantime.

Sesame, it's a little bit gross but you have to send off a bit of blood from af If it comes back positive the penny will give you a prescription for the antibiotics. I ordered mine from a chemist in London that I know accepts foreign prescriptions by email. They are very good and the medication arrives the next day. Think it was around £50 for medication and £200 for the test. I'm going to have a hysteroscopy next year as well. I know a couple of ladies who have had them at my clinic recently and although nothing has shown up on previous scans they have had several polyps and necrotic cells removed so think it's well worth it to double check before putting anything back in there.

Create - their stand was chaos, there were lots of staff but not many that seemed to be able to deal with questions. I persisted and it was worthwhile. Eventually I found out they had a show discount of an initial test package plus consult for about 200, possibly instead of 300+ (although I'm still waiting for details about which package this actually covers...).

By milling about for long enough, I eventually managed to have a chat with Dr N herself. She said she was shocked that my first treatment was a LP with an amh

Evening Ladybros. Glad all went well with your consultation Beaky. Are you going for OE or DE with Gennet? How soon are you thinking of starting?
Lucie great news on your NHS appointment - glad to see WFI are getting their act together. Our first appointment involved checking all the consent forms and our ID. Then we had a chat with the consultant about our history/test results - she basically went through all our notes. We fessed up about one private cycle so she asked us quite a bit about that. I'd suggest doing the same as it gives them an idea of what works. She then said we could start straight away as we'd been waiting long enough, but we delayed it a bit as I needed to get a smear done plus we were due to go away. The only bloods we had were for virus screening (plus Chlamydia swabs) which they are absolutely obsessed with repeating every 3 months. So I wouldn't get them done unless you are planning on starting within that time frame or theyll just make you repeat them! I was chatting to someone on another thread who had their first appointment at the Heath last week and walked out with the drugs ready to start down regging, so I see no reason why they shouldn't start you if that's what you want.
Thanks for asking after me ladies. I'm doing ok, not feeling very hopeful but I think it's hard to muster up any type of positivity 4th time around . OTD isn't until a week Sat and not sure when I'm going to pimp yet. I won't pimp on a work day as won't be able to face school afterwards but I'm thinking this Sunday will be too early at 8dp5dt? So I may just have to hold out.....

sesame thanks for sharing all of this information, it's really helpful. The approaches are all so different, and your notes are fantastic at giving an overall impression of each. Did you come away with any strong feeling toward a particular clinic? I get what they are saying at create - it ties into my own feelings that ivf is so drastic or it's the wrong answer to solve the problem (if they even knew what the problem was in my case).

clem I'm I interested to hear your GP did level one immunes testing rather than the FC. Can anyone tell me what the level one immunes tests are made up of please?

I'm considering the hidden c test lucie, especially as my cycle looks like it will be delayed. I was rather wild in my teens and 20s. Whilst I was mostly careful, it wouldn't surprise me to have something lurking in the background.

ungoog how are you feeling today? Hope the worst of af is out of the way now.

spare hope you're going ok.

happy hope you're hanging in there. Am Pom-Pomming like mad for you. When are you testing?

beaky hope you're ok. How are you feeling at the moment? Are you still in the wigwam? If so, I'm coming in , as I need somewhere to hang out sulk about the crappy delays at my FC! Can't believe that staff shortages mean I have to delay my cycle until April. That is pants timing for so many reasons. Grrrr

Waves at barking if you're lurking.

Hi pip good to see you lady, and good work on the Berry recruitment!

Other than being told my cycle will now start in April rather than Jan, I'm ok. Just plodding along till the appointment next thurs and concentrating on the wedding. It's such a relief to give over some of the headspace that has been thinking about TTC to flowers, dresses and rings!

X post happy. 8dp5dt is 12dpo right? So possible with a FRER I would say. Everything crossed for you xx