Strapping on our lady balls and going menkul because we HATE THIS SHIT!! The Berries: a lovely bunch of 30 something Ladybros TTC #1

[happylass]

The small print:

The Berries have strict entrance criteria: TTC #1 for 12 months+, over 30, NO instadiffers, must have a special pimping pot and absolutely no mention of baby dust/dancing. Not that we're fussy!

Current Ladybros:

Minx 35 - TTC 2.5 years. Stage 4 endometriosis, both tubes blocked, 1 buried ovary, IVF #1 started Aug '15 at Mustache Towers, if all goes well results due mid-Sept.

Smidge 39, TTC since Jan '13. Unexplained. Some high NK cell immune treatment. IVF#1 Short protocol Jul'14 BFN; IVF#2 Nov'14 and IVF#3 Feb'15 both Long protocol BFNs; Natural FET Jun'15 - Another BFN. Trying to work out what to do next.

Happylass, 37, TTC since Aug 2012. 2 failed ICSI cycles, 1 failed FET and 1 abandoned cycle due to poor response. Hoping to start antagonist cycle mid September. HATE THIS SHIT!!

Beaky 35, ttc 3 yrs, 2x failed iui 1 long protocol ivf cancelled, 1 short protocol IVF BFN, very low amh etc etc. In 2ww for 2nd sp IVF.

Tigerdog, 35, ttc since Jan 2013. Unexplained. IVF #1 chemical pregnancy. Currently redoing tests in preparation for IVF #2.

barkingtreefrog 36, ttc since Dec 2011. clomid bfp summer 2013 then mc @7 weeks, iui bfp summer 2014 then mc @6 weeks. Factor V leiden thrombophilia diagnosed at the repeat mc clinic. IUI bfn Jan 2015, IVF bfn April/May 2015. FET bfn August 2015, remaining frozen embryo perished. Pursuing private tests and then long protocol ivf in Oct/Nov.

Lumen, 35, ttc since Nov 2011, unexplained, two IVF cycles in 2014, both bfns, waiting for lap&dye and results of numerous bloods, aiming for one last IVF cycle.

Kuma - 40. TTC 2.9 years. Low AMH high FSH - DH antisperm ABs. Failed IVF June 14 and March 15, cancelled cycle June 15. Last try September 15

Lucieloos, 36, TTC 18 months, low AMH & sperm motility. ICSI#1, April 2015, Czech, 2xblasts transferred, BFN. Icsi#2, cancelled before EC. Icsi#3, 2 mature and fertilised, both to blast and frozen. Icsi#4 in October, embryo banking.

Rain, 34, ttc since March 2012. unexplained. Mystery bfp oct 13, MMC Nov 13. IVF#1 Aug 2015

Sesame, 40, ttc with no dp, on this road for 2 years, multiple failed IVFs, 3 ETs, 1 bfp then mc, poor responder with v low AMH, but still looking for the golden egg.

nolly, 33, TTC 3 years, 1 confirmed MC, 2 more suspected. still in limbo

Spare, 34, TTC 3 years, IVF#1 short protocol + ICSI August 14 BFP but pregnancy loss at 20+ weeks, 3 failed FET, IVF #2 short protocol + PICSI August 15

Funkymonk 33. Ttc since October 2012. Mc June 2013, Mmc dec 2013, mc June 2014. Factor v Leiden thrombophilia. Abandoned IVF Jan 2015 due to thin lining. Abandoned FET Aug 2015 due to thin lining. 4 embies on ice. Cycling again November time I think.

Clem, currently on 3rd Clomid Cycle

Pip - quite simply the Best In Show.

Oh lovely Beaky I'm so very sorry you're having a tough time. No wang from me but a huge Berry hug instead. This is all so very difficult and a massive strain on our relationships. Sometimes the smallest of things can set us off. I was considering divorce last night just because DH didn't leave my teabag in long enough - the bastard!! . Seriously though I find I'm sometimes pootling along quite nicely thinking I'm coping pretty well with things then bam - something that I can't even put my finger on completely derails me and I'll turn in to an emotional wreck. Go easy on yourself my lovely and remember, you do whatever it takes to get through this hideous nightmare.
Tiger I'm so sorry you have to wait even longer. It's true that time passes quickly but I know that's not much comfort when you're the one waiting . I did find the wedding planning a huge help in distracting me though so I hope that's helping you too.
I'm back to the FC on Wednesday which has totally ballsed up my plans for going away half term, especially as they'll probably want to see me again on Friday

Thanks Tiger Happy and sesame it does help to have someone to "say" this stuff to. I don't have anyone in real life that I can talk to at all unfortunately.

Tiger will MrT have to go all the way to the new FC for the sa? There will be tons of us cycling in January, which will hopefully result in a cluster diff! There hasn't been one of those for a while. I'm trying to focus on at least having Christmas to enjoy myself. Have you been to any other wedding dress shops in London? I went there when I was looking as it was a totally different experience from dress shopping at home.

sesame well done on keeping active, a 5k walk is excellent. I'm imagining your sesame seed happily floating around dividing up ready to implant! How's that for visualisation! really keeping everything crossed for you now.

Happy I dreamed I was divorcing my dh last night! Something is in the berry water..! I am pompoming away for good follie growth for you, fx for Wednesday. Shame about not being able to go away though, typical that it would fall at the same time as your half term.

Yep beaky I'm having a day in London with my best mate to try on dresses in a couple of weeks. Choices are limited as only 5 months until the wedding, but I would happily go second hand/vintage/preloved as I'm not planning on spending several thousands!! I'm going to one shop called Fur Coat No Knickers!

Fingers crossed that we have one long cluster diff about to kick off that takes us well into 2016!

Tiger! hahaha. I bet you find one you love in that shop!!

Tiger Fur Coat No Knickers sounds amazing! You have to buy a dress from there!
I've decided to still go away this week even though it'll mean a mammoth cross country trek for scan purposes. Determined not to let this shit ruin my week off! So will head up to the Peaks early Weds after scan instead of going tomorrow. Then I'll get the train back either late Thurs or early Fri for scan then I'll go back up to Manc to meet up with DH who's working there for the weekend. Am I mad?? Wouldn't bother with Manc but I hardly see Mr Happy during a normal working week and he's away the weekend after next too.

Well done happy that's a much better response. I wonder if stopping the dhea helped. I've stopped it now too. I'm a little worried that the quality won't be as good as even though quantity has been very low I've managed to get 3 good blasts so far. I'm wondering whether to take just 25mg but not sure. That's quite a trek you are making for your scan! Glad you're not letting it spoil your plans though.

Beaky, hope you are ok. I also have massive ups and downs in this process. I broke down on the weekend and told another of my friends all about it.

Sesame, keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Lucie would DHEA affect womb lining too? After 10 days of stimms on my cancelled cycle my lining was only just over 7mm. Today after 5 days it was 8.4mm. Even on my natural cycle my lining got to 12mm without any drugs. If it wasn't the DHEA that affected me last time then it must have been the higher dose of Buserelin that over suppressed me

Hi berries. It's been a while since I posted I think. Though i have been reading the thread. I can't remember quite whether I've said this before but AliG reckons the DHEA helps the DNA chromosome strands pull apart properly, so they can recombine with those from the sperm with fewer abnormalities. So basically she reckons it helps the quality I guess - she made no comment on the quantity.

When I went to pick up my prescription for it, the chemist said that you do need to take the 3 tablets spread out across the day, not all at once. This is because it is an instant release drug. Some drugs are slow release so you can take them all at once and they'll effectively spread the dose out themselves, but this particular DHEA isn't like that so hence spread out the tablets. Thought that was interesting and have made sure I'm doing that now. (And if I forget a dose I'm not doubling up as it sounded as if I'd just pee out the excess and it would be a waste).

My HCG is back to normal and finished my second batch of antibiotics yesterday. Tried the natural route last night but trying not to not getting my hopes up. I'll have a blood test on 4th Nov to check I've ovulated and then start sniffing the synarel again ready for Stimms and EC before Christmas.

Beaky I'll give you a wang. As long as you promise to do the same for me. I seem to have stopped being in the roller coaster cycle of moods and am just constantly in the duldrems now. Maybe it's based on how long this has been going on for?

I took the 'what to expect when you're expecting' book that my SIL so helpfully gave me a year ago blaming her tempting fate much, moi? to the charity shop yesterday. I feel resigned to doing this last IVF but I'm not sure why I'm bothering. And yet, that brief pregnancy is there now to tease and suggest it might be possible. Life is cruel. Grr. Do you know what really annoys me? I had actually got to the point of being not interested last month and then I got that positive. So now I'm actually left thinking all those people saying you should 'just relax' and stop thinking about it and 'it will happen when you least expect it' crap will be so smug. When really deep down I know that's nonsense and it's just a case that that particular egg was the best I've had in 3 years. Or it's just the combination of everything else. But that nagging feeling that I'd given up and then got a positive now makes me feel that I'm only chucking out the stupid pregnancy book to try to con the world into thinking I've given up again, and it's all some sort of double-bluff that fate will see straight through. Gah! Does that make any sense? I feel very demotivated and resigned to another few months of this crap before I can move on.

happy I'm glad you've got a much better response this time. I'll be pom-pinning for quality over quantity.

Sorry for not name checking everyone else - I'm doing this on the phone in bed so haven't taken any notes. But I am following with lots of interest, and will try to get more organised next time.

tiger you've reminded me I need to sell my wedding dress. It's still hanging up over the top of our sunroom door. I just can't seem to get motivated to do anything at the moment. I really need a wang too

happy I was told the stim drugs actually are bad for lining. So you would expect natural cycles to have thicker linings that stimulated ones. This is one of the main reasons I'm choosing to do a freeze all cycle this time. So they can not worry about lining for EC and then have a more natural cycle for the FET.

Don't know if DHEA affects lining but I don't think so. It was meant to promote the production of natural hormones that we used to produce as teenagers (hence the potential spotty face and greasy hair side effects) so I feel it can only help on reproduction. However I admit I'm being a bit blinkered and am refusing to google it coz I'm on it at the moment so I don't want to start worrying (and got my only natural diff on it too, so am liking the theory that this is the magic answer!)

I really don't know happy and smidge. I've been reading a lot of dr shers articles lately and he really doesn't like dhea for older women or those who have low reserve see here I don't know what to do anymore. That's why I'm thinking should I just take 25mg or maybe not bother at all but I will be kicking myself then if quality is not as good as the last two times.

Popping in to lift up corner of duvet to hand beaky some and . Back tomorrow when sesame seed should be a blast. Night all!

Smidge my lining also got to about 12mm on my first 2 medicated cycles which is why I suspect that I was over suppressed on my cancelled cycle. I asked the consultant if it could be the higher dose of Buserelin and she said no but I think she's wrong. It has to either be that or the DHEA. They are the only variables. Guess I'll never know!

smidge good luck for your cycle. Interesting what you said about divided doses for DHEA. I tried to do that initially, but kept on missing the middle dose so switched to 2 in the morning, 1 at night – will have to rethink once I start up again unless I’m preggers of course… I’m actually still on the fence about taking it. Robert Winston says that early results from large scale controlled trials don’t look so promising. But that doesn’t account for the fact that I’m desperate and have nothing else to try. And although it’s given me horrible spots, I’m willing to put up with it for now.

happy, glad you are still planning on enjoying a bit of holiday this week, even if it mean traveling back for scans. I was also over supressed on the Buserelin, with bleeding early in the cycle, so I reckon it’s a good call that you were affected by the slightly upped dose. It seems it’s not a very commonly used protocol, and that is maybe why.

lucie did you speak to your fc about your change in protocol?

tiger sounds like fun plans for dress shopping, though at fur coat and no knickers!

beaky how are you feeling today?

Still not much in the way of symptoms. Bit of bloating from the progesterone – what’s the lingo for cyclogest, are they ones fanny candles? Also, I’ve been having very vivid dreams, lots about being pregnant, having a baby etc., and last night I dreamt I was back at the fc, waiting hours and hours to see someone, with my old boss chatting at my bedside.

Smidge I'm not surprised tbh, the bfp being whipped away is just so cruel and I would feel the same now about walking away. God my head is fried without that so I don't know how you're coping.

Happy I'd say go for it with the travelling, sometimes we have to take the opportunities especially when you don't see MrH very much while your not off work. I don't know about dhea affecting lining, I've not had that issue so far myself crossed fingers for next round but who knows. I know it's not recommended for people with good ovarian reserve but where the cut off is for defining good, I don't know.

Lucie sorry to hear you had a rough weekend too. Have you decided which protocol you will try next.

Sesame still willing on your little seed, even while I knock back the wine and cake!

I'm thinking of going to see the FC counsellor but I can't say any of this out loud. I know that sounds weird and I don't really understand it but there it is. Tiger you had some counselling didn't you? How did you find it?

beaky I can totally recommend counselling. I’ve been to see the specialist fc counsellor during a couple of different cycles. I found it like proper ‘me time’, to talk almost selfishly in a way about everything I was feeling, without the other person judging, or telling me what to do, or giving me their opinion, or ‘trying to help’. An fc counsellor also has good knowledge about what the treatment involves, and has lots of experience helping people going through the exact same as you. That’s great, as they can understand what you are going through. It helped me to reflect on my own personal desire to become a mother, and why I felt it important to put all my time and resources into this journey. It really helped at my lowest points, and made me feel lighter. Don’t worry about the talking bit, the counsellor should help to make you feel at ease and will ask you questions to prompt you and help you to focus what you are thinking.

Sesame and Beaky, I think I'm probably going to try Dr Shers agonist/antagonist conversion protocol. It's the only main one I haven't tried really apart from mini. I've done antagonist twice and flare so feel like trying something different. I have been messaging Dr Sher and he has been very helpful and seems to think it's the right one for me but who knows. I know my clinic will pretty much agree to me trying whatever I want to so will give it a go. I'm crossing my fingers for another 2 blastos as then we will be good to go with the transfers.

You make it sound easy Sesame I don't particularly want to have to rehash everything that's happened but I don't want to feel so down continuously. maybe I'll direct her to the berry thread!

Lucie fx for January then, hopefully you won't need to do any further ec'a after that.

lucie good for you, glad you’ve decided to go for it. And I’m really hoping you get another good result. Will also be really interesting to see what your final protocol looks like and what meds and doses you’ll be on. Do you know if you will be making any substitutions for any meds more commonly used in US?

beaky Do it! There’s a good reason why free counselling is included alongside fertility treatment, whether NHS or private. You wouldn’t normally get this if you had another medical condition.

Last night I dreamt I was heavily pregnant, I was about to go into labour and I was randomly at my mum’s house. I was scrabbling around trying to pack a hospital bag, without even knowing what I needed to take with me, and I didn’t even have any baby things yet, so was stressing about how I could get hold of newborn babygros and get them washed before leaving for the hospital. It’s quite tiring this 2ww malarkey.

Thanks beaky, I really hope so!

Sesame, I already know roughly what meds I will be on....

In the cycle before treatment I will do bcp from cd3 to cd 21 and buserelin from cd19 to af.

Then in the new cycle I will be on 500iu purgeon for cd2 and 3 and then 300iu purgeon and 75iu menopur for the rest of the cycle. I will also be taking half a dose of Cetrotide every day from cd1. No American meds.

Ah the 2ww dreams sesame. Isn't it strange how the mind works. It's possibly the hardest wait ever. Hope you're hanging in there.

lucie hope the new protocol works for you. I think I'll get put on long proticol again but waiting to find out at the next appointment.

beaky I had therapy to try and get me into a more positive place. I did 8 sessions. It did work to make me feel more positive and relaxed, but then the chemical pregnancy and failed ivf has been a major set back. Mr T told me thinks he might be a bit depressed as a result of the ttc struggles - he's lost a bit of his laid back fun streak, and that in turn makes me even more sad. Hope you're ok under the duvet of despair.

smidge I loved your bit about a complicated double bluff - I recognise these thought patterns! It's enough to drive us all crazy. I totally get the being demotivated - I'm there and slowly trying to break through it...But hang in there for this round - i will be keeping everything crossed for you.

Afm - I'm currently having a pedicure - heaven! I've been doing loads of yoga these last two weeks and cringing at the state of the tiger paws. Af is two bloody days late. Did a frer last night before going out - bfn so assume it is just the universe being a fucker. I have my 3d sis booked in for the 3rd Nov and if af takes another day to arrive then that would make 3rd Nov day 5 and the scan needs to be between day 6 and 13. Can see it being just my luck that I end up having to wait another month!

Sesame what a stressful dream. I bet you feel knackered after that too, when I have dreams like that I don't feel like I've slept properly. Anyway, still pompoming for you lady. All fingers crossed. Thanks for the advice too, I am going to go.

Lucie tell me about why you'll be taking the pill before buserelin, and are you expecting to only take buserelin for a couple of days?

Tiger enjoy your pedicure! Well done on getting back into yoga too. Sorry to hear it's taking its toll on MrT, I think it definitely has on MrB too. They need their own mn berry thread. Gutted for you for the bfn, so cruel. fx a rocks up soon so you don't have any delays. Hate this shit!! Are you finding you're anymore motivated after starting back at yoga? Thanks for the advice though, I'm def going to give it a try. I can't go on being so angry and bitter, I'm not normally like that.

Happy how did your scan go today? What's the latest on follie growth and ec? Crossing everything for you.

So quite in here at the mo.

Beaky, the bcp is to make sure that all LH is suppressed before the cycle starts. This protocol that I am doing is all about keeping LH levels very controlled which is meant to be very important in older ladies and those with low reserve. Too much LH can cause too much testosterone to be produced which can compromise egg / embryo quality.

The buserelin will be from cd19 until af arrives so probably 7 days max. It causes a surge of fsh which is at that time of the cycle is supposed to help recruit follicles. It is then stopped and half a dose of Cetrotide is used instead after af has started. This is supposed to stop over suppression. Buserelin can compete with the stimms for fsh receptors and so blunt response.

It all sounds good in theory but who knows if it will be any good. I may as well give it a try though

Hi Berries, just a quick check in before I go to sleep...

I couldn't get myself out of the sad rut and ended up going to the doctor for a 'this depression thing isn't shifting as fast as I hoped' chat and ended up just sat there sobbing for 10 minutes while she held my hand. It does help telling someone about what's been happening and they actually understand where you're coming from. So, I hit the bottom and now I'm climbing back up albeit slowly.

I'm currently not at home, work has put me on an IT course for a week in a hotel, far enough away from everything at home. It's a bit of a blessing in disguise as I've thrown myself in studying, the day is taken up by training and after I get back to my room, have dinner and complete my homework my brain is too damn tired to think about everything else.

Nothing happening from me until 26 Nov so I'll bow out until then.

Hope you're all looking after yourselves and if anything, make sure you make some time for yourself. Get away from it all if you can for just half an hour, for the sake of your sanity because this shit will drive you bat shit insane

Hello all. It is indeed very quiet in here. Maybe we need a recruitment drive!
Antonia please don't feel you have to bow out just because you're in between treatments. We're all here for each other whatever is going on.
Sesame I hope you're hanging in there. Thinking of you
Lucie that sounds like a very complex protocol - Fx it does the job for you.
I'm on the second of my 3 cross country treks - just heading home ready for my scan tomorrow. Had a lovely but very brief stay in the Peak District. DH failed to tell me he was actually starting work in Manc today rather than tomorrow so it was hardly worth me travelling up but, as Antonia wisely said, any time out from this hellish nightmare is time well spent.
Scan yesterday showed 9 follies which I'm pleased with. All being well at tomorrow's scan, EC will be Monday which is earlier than I'd expected - that'll be 2 days less than I stimmed for on my previous cycle. I also haven't even let work know yet and I'm obviously not in this week - oops!
Did anyone else who's used Gonal F find it affects their sleep and appetite? It may be coincidence but I've been waking up stupidly early - 4:30am this morning . I'm also completely off my food which isn't like me at all!

Yes it’s been very quiet in here. Come on all you berries, old and new, tell us what you’re up to as I need to be entertained during my 2ww

happy well done for much improved follicular growth! . So pleased this cycle is working better for you!

ant do feel free to join back in at any point, and fingers crossed for the 26 Nov appointment – really hope it moves things along for you and helps the insanity to lift a little.

lucie thanks for sharing that list, it does look very impressive. And those stims doses don’t actually look all that high after all that. Do you have to take a particular bcp? And does the bcp include an oestrogen priming element too, or is that not part of this protocol at all? Oh, and how come it’s half a dose of cetrotide? I didn’t even know you could do that.

beaky have you called to make an appointment? Also, I was meaning to ask, have you been out with the C25k app lately? I’m not running at the mo at least until OTD so I need to live through others…

tiger hope the paws are looking fabulous now , what colour did you plump for? Really hope af shows up for you

Thanks again for the support, not much happening here today. Still hanging on. No weird dreams last night. I have tentatively booked a follow up consult, in case of bad news. I am also about to order 2 new form fitting dresses, as all the autumn promotions are on this weekend, and I’m hoping to invoke law of sod again…