Strapping on our lady balls and going menkul because we HATE THIS SHIT!! The Berries: a lovely bunch of 30 something Ladybros TTC #1

[happylass]

The small print:

The Berries have strict entrance criteria: TTC #1 for 12 months+, over 30, NO instadiffers, must have a special pimping pot and absolutely no mention of baby dust/dancing. Not that we're fussy!

Current Ladybros:

Minx 35 - TTC 2.5 years. Stage 4 endometriosis, both tubes blocked, 1 buried ovary, IVF #1 started Aug '15 at Mustache Towers, if all goes well results due mid-Sept.

Smidge 39, TTC since Jan '13. Unexplained. Some high NK cell immune treatment. IVF#1 Short protocol Jul'14 BFN; IVF#2 Nov'14 and IVF#3 Feb'15 both Long protocol BFNs; Natural FET Jun'15 - Another BFN. Trying to work out what to do next.

Happylass, 37, TTC since Aug 2012. 2 failed ICSI cycles, 1 failed FET and 1 abandoned cycle due to poor response. Hoping to start antagonist cycle mid September. HATE THIS SHIT!!

Beaky 35, ttc 3 yrs, 2x failed iui 1 long protocol ivf cancelled, 1 short protocol IVF BFN, very low amh etc etc. In 2ww for 2nd sp IVF.

Tigerdog, 35, ttc since Jan 2013. Unexplained. IVF #1 chemical pregnancy. Currently redoing tests in preparation for IVF #2.

barkingtreefrog 36, ttc since Dec 2011. clomid bfp summer 2013 then mc @7 weeks, iui bfp summer 2014 then mc @6 weeks. Factor V leiden thrombophilia diagnosed at the repeat mc clinic. IUI bfn Jan 2015, IVF bfn April/May 2015. FET bfn August 2015, remaining frozen embryo perished. Pursuing private tests and then long protocol ivf in Oct/Nov.

Lumen, 35, ttc since Nov 2011, unexplained, two IVF cycles in 2014, both bfns, waiting for lap&dye and results of numerous bloods, aiming for one last IVF cycle.

Kuma - 40. TTC 2.9 years. Low AMH high FSH - DH antisperm ABs. Failed IVF June 14 and March 15, cancelled cycle June 15. Last try September 15

Lucieloos, 36, TTC 18 months, low AMH & sperm motility. ICSI#1, April 2015, Czech, 2xblasts transferred, BFN. Icsi#2, cancelled before EC. Icsi#3, 2 mature and fertilised, both to blast and frozen. Icsi#4 in October, embryo banking.

Rain, 34, ttc since March 2012. unexplained. Mystery bfp oct 13, MMC Nov 13. IVF#1 Aug 2015

Sesame, 40, ttc with no dp, on this road for 2 years, multiple failed IVFs, 3 ETs, 1 bfp then mc, poor responder with v low AMH, but still looking for the golden egg.

nolly, 33, TTC 3 years, 1 confirmed MC, 2 more suspected. still in limbo

Spare, 34, TTC 3 years, IVF#1 short protocol + ICSI August 14 BFP but pregnancy loss at 20+ weeks, 3 failed FET, IVF #2 short protocol + PICSI August 15

Funkymonk 33. Ttc since October 2012. Mc June 2013, Mmc dec 2013, mc June 2014. Factor v Leiden thrombophilia. Abandoned IVF Jan 2015 due to thin lining. Abandoned FET Aug 2015 due to thin lining. 4 embies on ice. Cycling again November time I think.

Clem, currently on 3rd Clomid Cycle

Pip - quite simply the Best In Show.

Evening Ladybros. Apologies for the silence. I've been checking in but never seem to have time to actually post.
Ungoog hope the bleeding has stopped and you manage to get some answers. 1.5 hours does seem a very long way for a FC. On my private round I was scanned every other day in the second week of stabbing. Overall with Baseline, EC and ET I'd say you're looking at about 7 appointments in the 2-3 weeks it takes to complete short protocol - long would probably be even more.
Sesame glad to hear things are progressing for you. As others have said its quality over quantity every time.
Barking I would love a stripey stair carpet! Unfortunately our lounge has stripey wallpaper so it would be over kill but it's on my mental wish list for our next house.
Interesting to hear the views of antagonist protocol as that's what we will be doing next - if we ever get started that is. AF randomly showed up today making this a ludicrous 18 day cycle. I'm going for a scan tomorrow but not holding out much hope of being able to start stabbing. It doesn't even feel like a proper AF - extremely light and not even worthy of the cramps and headache it causing. Why is everything so bloody difficult HATE THIS SHIT!!
Hope everyone else is ok. Have a good week all.

I lost the post I wrote on my phone last night so had to re-write everything . Thanks for your support berries. EC is booked in for Thursday and I take my trigger tonight. I really want to at least have a chance of an embryo to transfer this time, but there are a lot of ducks I need to get in a row before then. I’ve not really got any symptoms this time either, it just feels like a normal cycle – I guess that’s what must happen with such a small number of follicles.

happy I remember having really random cycles after my first failed IVF. How did your scan go? Have you got the go ahead to start this cycle then?

barking love the sound of stripy stair carpet, I hope you get your own way! Blimey at that meds list, that’s the whole pharmacy! It also sounds a lot like wild’s kitchen sink protocol, really hope it works for you as well as it worked for her. What doses of menopur/gonal f are you are taking by the way?

beaky your fc really need to get their act together and explain more stuff to you. I’ve previously asked for the notes from my previous cycles to go through to try to understand more about my treatment and results. When are you next going out running?

lucie, my fc also don’t believe in low stims for low reserve – but I still think there might be something in it. Will be interesting to hear what your consultant says about the change to your protocol.

Sesame my cycles pretty much went back to normal straight after my unsuccessful cycles but this cancelled cycle seems to have really screwed things up! Fortunately all was well at baseline today so we've been given the green light to start. However the hospital pharmacy didn't have any Gonal F today so I've got to go back tomorrow to get that and get re-dildocammed so I can start stabbing tomorrow eve.
I'm sure I read an article recently about highly stimms affecting go quality. I'll see if I can find it.....

That's me screwed then given that I'm on the max dose

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3276728/Doctors-cutting-women-s-odds-pregnancy-pumping-expensive-strong-IVF-drugs.html

Yay happy, really glad you have been given the green light. Can't wait for you to get started again.

I definitely think there's something in the mini IVF for certain women but it normally involves clomid and again that's not recommended for women over 35 and for those with low reserve. It is appealing though because of the low cost and I don't think I would rule it out in future as I've tried pretty much everything else but I don't know I just feel drawn to the conversion protocol. I would only be on high stimms for 2 days and then 375iu the rest of the time which I think is classed as moderate. My last cycle I was only on 225iu and it's obviously not doing it for me anymore at that dose.

Daily Fail, famous for quality science reporting ;)

dinnae fash yerself pet. They supported the nazis, what do they know

anyway it's much more likely to be the other way around, i.e. that people who only need a little dose are of a different kind of patient to those needing a high dose. correlation does not equal causation!

I agree Nolly. Ladies needing high stimms probably have a lower chance of it not working anyway due to poor quality - it's not necessarily the stimms causing the problem.
Lucie is it Menopur you'll be using? I used 375 of Menopur on my private cycles. I was under the impression that was quite high (your favourite nurse told me some clinics won't even prescribe that high a dose ). However I know the Heath will happily go up to 450. Im taking 450 of Gonal F this time, for no other reason than I fancied a change! Obviously I didn't respond to the Menopur last time but I put that down to something else as I responded really well on my other cycles and I refuse to believe things can have gone downhill so rapidly in 6 months!

This is the abstract from the original research. nolly do you have access to the full text? My thinking is that super high doses of fsh used in US treatment aren't popular in Europe anyway - so probably not so relevant here. The last bit of the abstract about over 35s/low reserve is discouraging though.

I agree with nolly, while low stimms may be suitable for some young women or high responders I have my doubts about low reserve although some do have success.

Happy, my favourite nurse never fails to tell me that they would have put me on 375iu but then she has told me there's no difference between 300 and 375iu anyway. I was told anything up to 300iu is low stimms and 300-450iu moderate. Low just isn't working for me now so I'm willing to give it a go a bit higher. I have read lots of ladies have excellent quality off moderate level stimms. I think it all depends on the person and the circumstances and a lot to do with ensuring you have the right protocol as well. This time I will be doing mainly Gonal with a small amount of menopur added on day 4. Again for the reason that LH levels should be kept low in those with poor reserve.

Wow ladies. Previous talk of higher stimms potentially affecting egg quality had me concerned as my dose is going to be upped this time. However, looking at all your numbers I'm not so sure I need to worry any more...
I was previously on 150 of Puregon, and have gone up to 200 Gonal F. These numbers are half what you lot are talking about!

Do you think they use different unit measures in Aus? I doubt it somehow, coz you'd think the one brand (Gonal F say) would always use the same.

No smidge I don't think they use different measurements. You are on pretty low stimms. They use 150iu in mini IVF in my clinic.

Ive been on 450 gonal f for the last two cycles and will be for the next. It's the highest dose of stims we can have in the UK so I can't see that it's moderate. Serum in Athens recommended I do a clomid cycle because I have low ovarian reserve.

Happy good luck for this cycle! Glad you were able to get underway.

Sesame best of luck for ec on thurs! Ill be crossing everything for you.

Nolly maybe we should take our angry hate campaign to the Daily Fail offices

Smidge that dose does sound low! How are you anyway?

Lucie has your consultant not recommended upping your stims before?

Hi smidge it will be the same. These meds are measured in IU which stands for international units, a standardised measure based on how much of a drug is needed to elicit the same biological effect.

I guess doses vary between clinics and countries beaky. So far the highest stimms I have done was 300iu and that was on the cycle before last but it was a short flare and I was taking buserelin the whole time whilst stimming. Agonists are known to compete with meds for fsh receptors so can blunt the response. All other cycles have been either 225iu or 250iu. I responded well to 225iu first time around which I why I decided to try it again on my latest attempt but it was nowhere near as good for some reason.

Are you a good responder beaky?

I agree, if women are put on higher stims they were probably less likely to succeed anyway than those that didn't need them. Consider how many IVF rounds are done due to male factor issues - if there's nothing wrong with the woman she's not going to need high stims and they have a much better chance of everything working once they've got the sperm to the egg.

I'm getting a shit load of drugs delivered to work today. And then in for the scratch tomorrow, and waiting for a phone call to tell me when I've got the intralipid drip on Friday. Start downregging on Sunday.

Sesame can't remember my dose without checking, but I think I was starting on 300 menopur and 300 gonal f. Which is more than he said before he'd read my notes, I was only going to be on menopur.

Yes exactly barking we have a few ladies in their 30s at our clinic with male factor only. They have very low stimms and produce loads of eggs and it normally works out for them after one or two attempts. Good luck with your scratch tomorrow. Sounds like we've got a few ladies starting soon? What's your protocol barking?

sesame yes I do, but it's copyright protected. I can dm you a copy if you send me an email address. It's a crap paper though, I wouldn't bother. There's loads of missing data, and they haven't taken into account most diagnoses, or age. Also

The key thing you need to bear in mind is that number of eggs retrieved is positively correlated with live birth. so, the more eggs you get the more babies - obviously. But the numbers of eggs retrived is, as we know, determined by a hell of a lot of factors. I'd argue that dosage is more to do with individual clinical assessment (drs descisions, based on local clinical practice, guidelines etc) than national policy.

Also, they showed that for women over 35 with low reserve the dose makes no difference. SO they did NOT show it was damaging. What they showed was that for these women : "

barking exactly, reasons for going into IVF not explored (e.g. same sex couples). look at this though

I'll try that again. Sighs.

fucksake! ok basically it shows that the numbers of eggs retrived is lowest for unexplained and those with ovulation disorder

oh beaky. Massive hug for you. Doesn't say why or for whom or under what circumstances it matters. Damn you the Mail!

Yes damn you hate this shit daily fail!

nolly thank you for being our berry scientist in residence. So after all that build up this research is a retrospective load of shite that tells us it’s tough to get pregnant if you’re old and don’t have many eggs…? Interesting that any evidence in this paper for older women is that high stims make no difference, rather than high stims causing harm. I seem to recall that the few papers I’ve seen that look at dose, it’s been more along the lines of showing that low stims can work as well as high, rather than one being better than the other. Interestingly, my fc max dose is 300iu, with this dose reserved only for very overweight patients – their theory is that the excess fsh just ends up literally going down the toilet. Also in the essential fertility guide, RW says he thinks there might be something in the idea of low stims meaning better quality (without citing much in the way of evidence to back this up), based on his experience of treating a women with low dose, who produced only 4 embryos but then went on to deliver quads! – it was in the days before the multiple birth policy

happy really glad you’ve got the green light, hope your dildocam went ok, you’ve finally got meds and can start stabbing now.

beaky thanks, really hope I get a result tomorrow. I’m a bit paranoid about lack of symptoms right now and very worried I could still ovulate early again. Not much I can do about it now though so I just need to distract myself. How are you feeling about things today?

smidge, how are you coping at the mo? When are you back at your fc?

barking hope all your drugs arrived safely? I’m glad I got mine delivered at home as some arrived in an absolutely massive cold chain box I couldn’t imagine trying to struggle home with. Good luck for the scratch tomorrow. Do remember to take your painkillers beforehand – I arrived one time, having completely forgotten , but luckily they gave me some of their own pills and delayed the procedure until they kicked in.

hi everyone, really not sure where my time is going at the moment, but stuggling to find the time to post here...have finally got 15 mins free, so here goes (only a weeks worth to catch up on)...

tiger glad you had a fab holiday in copenhagen, I've never been there, but would love to go (off to nag dh). How is the health kick going? I am doing okay, in as much as I just don't drink anymore, but cutting out crappy food, and going running/doing yoga I just never quite seem to get round to. should re-name my to do list, to a ignore list...

smidge how are you, been thinking about you a lot...was good to sound you were a little brighter, last time you posted

antonia distraction is a funny thing isn't it...I do get what you mean, about not being able to concentrate at yoga (I don't yet do yoga, but I meditate when I can, and the whole thing about clearing my mind, means I just sit there thinking about everything I'm trying not too. it's kind of why I stopped trying to symptom spot last month, cause I knew I'd do it regardless.

ungoogle are you okay now, after the scare of the heavy bleed...hate stuff like that, just one more thing for you to worry about, that you just don't need. and well done for surviving the MIL...sounds like hard work.

beaky month off clomid is going well, am now wondering if I need to take Nov off too (see below for reasons why)...crappy timing on my part really.

barking I love the dedication of repainting the dining room for your "royal visit", hope it all goes well, when they arrive...remember to curtsy

nolly hope you are well, still think you are a closet archers listener tho

hi to everyone else.

can't remember whether I said, but I did cave, and purchase some ovulation tests off the internet (one step ones), and started using this month (did start testing late, on day 14. no sign of a positive result, and then just for fun (because I found some other tesco ovulation strips I'd forgot I had bought), I thought I'd test using that at the same time....so I did, and the one step gave me a negative, and the tesco gave me a positive a few days ago...anyone else come across that with the ovulation test strips (also, tesco one showed positive for ovulating 2 days running, which seemed a bit odd ...I assumed it just happened for 1 day...probably just my lack of knowledge tho.

also (and this is what I mentioned above), because I want to get my AMH plus antral follicle count checked), some of the fc that I've been getting quotes from, have mentioned I should do this on a natural cycle, not a clomid one (makes sense, and I was already reaching that conclusion on my own. do does that sound right to you guys, that the AMH plus antral follicle count should be done, when I don't have clomid in my system?

phew...going for a lie down, after all that