Yo yo!! Calling all Ladybros over 30 TTC #1. Join the Berries aboard the Charabanc of lurrrve. Bring real Champagne, from the actual Champagne region. No Colombian builders allowed.

[happylass]

The small print:

The Berries have strict entrance criteria: TTC #1 for 12 months+, over 30, NO instadiffers, must have a special pimping pot and absolutely no mention of baby dust/dancing. Not that we're fussy

Current passengers

WildflowerMarmalade 40 - TTC for three years. FET done in June with immune treatments - waiting for result... Six embryos in the freezer after two freeze all cycles.

Minx 35 in August - TTC 2 years. Stage 4 endometriosis, both tubes blocked, 1 buried ovary, IVF booking in appt in July, hoping to start IVF soon after

Smidge 39, TTC since Jan '13. Unexplained. IVF#1 Short protocol July '14 BFN, IVF#2 Nov'14 and IVF#3 Feb '15 both Long protocol BFNs. High NK cell immune treatment. Natural FET in June '15, awaiting result.

Happylass, 37, TTC since Aug 2012. 2 failed ICSI cycles and 1 failed FET. Hoping to start long awaited NHS cycles in late August provided pesky smear test is sorted by then.

Beaky 35, ttc coming up 3 yrs, 2x failed iui 1x long protocol ivf cancelled 1 BFN following IVF

Tigerdog, 34 (soon to be 35) TTC since Jan 2013. Unexplained. IVF#1 May 2015 resulted in a chemical pregnancy. Now transferring clinics in the hope of a second round of IVF on the NHS and considering an NK cells biopsy in July/August.

barkingtreefrog 36, ttc 3.5 years. clomid bfp summer 2013 then mc @7 weeks, iui bfp summer 2014 then mc @6 weeks. Factor V leiden thrombophilia diagnosed at the repeat mc clinic. IUI bfn Jan 2015, IVF bfn April/May 2015. Currently awaiting nk cells results before a FET possibly in August/September.

Lumen, 35, ttc since Nov 2011, unexplained, two IVF cycles in 2014, both bfns, waiting for lap&dye and results of numerous bloods, aiming for one last IVF cycle.

Kuma - 40. TTC 2.5 years. Low AMH high FSH - DH antisperm ABs. Failed IVF June 14 and March 15. Looking to change clinic and try another natural cycle in June 2015.

Lucieloos, 35, TTC 18 months, low AMH & sperm motility. 1st ICSI in Czech Republic in April BFN.

Rain, 33 ttc since March 2012. unexplained. mystery bfp oct 13, MMC Nov 13. NHS IVF starting in June

Brilliant news Happy! I kept taking dhea right through to egg collection last time (I'd not been taking it long that round) but stopped after EC until I knew it was bfn, then started again. I think I read in "it starts with the egg" to stop through the 2ww but can't actually remember now so I await being corrected! I think Smidges professor has prescribed hers up to her cycle but not sure whether she stops before stims or at EC. Wild might know though?

I agree if there are only one or two embryos left on day 3 then my clinic would also be happy to transfer them and of course there can be pregnancies that result as some of those embryos would have been strong and would have made it to day 5 in the lab. The only reason they transfer on day 3 though is because obviously a lot of women feel happier having something to transfer rather than nothing and there is no need to wait until day 5 to see which are the better embryos if you only have two you may as well have them put back but in the opinion of my clinic it doesn't change the outcome. The womb is actually not the natural environment for an embryo to be at day 3 it would still be in the tubes until it reached blast at day 5.

Happy, so pleased af has arrived on time and you can get your baseline done. I continued taking my dhea alongside my stimms. The thinking being that if I have to cycle again then a break of a few weeks would mean that the build up effect of them would be gone and it would be like starting from scratch with them again.

Rain, no update on the embryos today. I have to ring at midday tomorrow which will be day 3.

beaky thanks for the info on your protocol, I didn’t realise you were doing short antagonist. Why did I think you were also on flare protocol? I’m glad the stabbing is going ok. Are you doing anything differently this time to help egg quality?

lucie fingers crossed for some good news from Czech.

rain ouch! Sorry about the stabbed finger, that sounds a nasty one.

happy glad af rolled up on time. Good luck for your scan tomorrow.

I want to share my take on day 3 versus day 5. There is clearly a higher success rate per transfer for blastocyst than a day 2 or 3 embryo. Growing to blastocyst is a great way to select the most successful embryos that are most likely to continue to grow and implant. It’s the best way to reduce the number of multiple births from IVF through Single Embryo Transfer (SET). It’s also better psychologically for the couple going through IVF as there’s less likely to be a bfn at the end of the cycle. However, growing on embryos those extra few days carries a risk that some embryos, which might still be capable of growing on and implanting, perishing in the lab environment. That’s why with small number of embryos, many clinics prefer to transfer at day 2/3 – I think there’s a bit more to it than having ‘something to transfer’. Yes there have been huge improvements in embryo culture and lab technique, but it’s still an artificial environment for an embryo (whilst acknowledging that the womb is also a different environment to the tubes). And every small procedure that is carried out (e.g. taking out the incubator to check on progress) could have an impact. For example, this research shows that the cumulative success rates (which roughly correlates to success per embryo) are slightly higher for day 2/3 embryos than day 5. Elsewhere, HFEA is interested in culture media and potential impacts on embryo or resulting baby. As for frozen versus fresh transfers, the jury is still out. But embryos do need to be good enough to be frozen, and then survive the thaw.

Sorry for another mammoth sciencey post. Some IVF gossip in the office today, about a 48 year old colleague who just had a little boy. Any of you girls thinking about donor, it’s never too late…

I think it's all very subjective sesame as it's just as easy to find articles suggesting the opposite.This top American doctor suggests what I have said that if they were going to make it they would regardless of out or in and it's more down to having something to transfer.

This is what I mean by the benefits of frozen over fresh. My clinic will only freeze embryos they believe will survive the thaw and these are the same ones that they believe would be good enough for transfer on day 5. As per the article they only using vitrification freezing which has over 95% success rates for thawing. The article states there are many health benefits to both mother and baby when opting for frozen over fresh transfer.

At the end of the day it's down to what each individual feels most comfortable doing and I completely understand why some would prefer to have a transfer on day 3 just incase rather than accept the harsh reality of nothing at all but I firmly believe if an embryo is going to make it then it will in the lab especially with the use of embryoscope and the likes so they don't have to be moved around and examined nowadays.

“At the end of the day it's down to what each individual feels most comfortable doing” This.

Yes lucie I absolutely agree.

No bother Sesame, maybe you thought I was flare as I started on the pill too? I am taking dhea, coq10 and trying to eat really well (lots of green leafy leafs etc!) basically things which are nutritious and avoiding things which aren't. Hopefully that will help. On my last round I got one good quality embryo and one which was a bit fragmented, so we put both back (without high hopes for the fraggy one) and it was bfn. So this time I've had a scratch as well. This af was actually longer than my usual too so hopefully that's a good clear out! Have your drugs arrived? Did you decide if you would tell your friend at the weekend?

Tiger how was your consultation?

Rain good luck for your scan tomorrow! Hope there's lots of good growth for the koi to announce on the buses!

Happy good luck for your BS tomorrow too!

Minx have you come across any more 12th century fertility advice?

Spare any more news on your NHS decision/appeal?

Pip if you are lurking, I was just wondering how you're doing?

Smidge I hope you're enjoying your hols!

Well berries, I'm a bit crazy at the moment and feel sad one minute then fine the next. I'm dying to get into the new house and stabbing in secret is so so difficult. I'm having the whole work is so boring and I can't bare it at the minute, thing! I definitely need a new challenge. Sorry for the whinge.

beaky that sounds like a good list. I’m sorry about all the crazy/sad/fine again feelings. I find focusing on work while all this other stuff is going on is so hard. Drugs should hopefully get delivered tomorrow morning. I’ve got one of those 7.30 till 12.30 delivery slots, so I’ve got the day off work. I still think I won’t tell my friend as I’d much rather let my hair down a little (‘cept for the booze ) and enjoy myself for a couple of days rather than any heart to heart sharing type stuff. Although it does mean I will need to run round the flat tomorrow to do an ‘IVF tidy’, removing all trace of yellow boxes etc...

If you have any other tips on improving egg quality Sesame feel free to share I'll try most things! Work does just seem so unimportant. You'd think for delivering drugs they would be a bit more specific about times! That does sound like a more enjoyable weekend, being able to relax and have fun without thinking about the IVF. Ahh the IVF tidy. I've had to do that one a few times but since we are living with family currently I cannot leave anything anywhere! Half the time I can't even remember where I've hidden stuff

I didn't realise you're living with family just now beaky that must be very hard. When do you move to your new house? I've run out of ideas for improving egg quality as I haven't come across any other decent research on things that might help. I did read a paper on Mediterranean diet but I'm not sure what else I would add that to my every day diet. Eat some olive oil each day....? I just hope a different protocol might make a difference for me. My clinic are being v cautious though and only ordered me a week's worth of drugs this time. And nothing at all yet for after ec after what happened last time.

OMG. So glad I've had private cycles as the NHS are clueless and I'd be so confused if I hadn't done this before! Been at the hospital 2 hours and am stuck here as DH had leave to go back to work. Everyone I've spoken too has told me something different. They couldn't even find syringes for me at one point and I'm not convinced I've got everything I need now

Oh gosh happy I have heard some horror stories about NHS! At least you have some experience behind you though and can double check everything they are doing.

Results are in for day 3 and it's a mixed bag. They are looking for 8 cells today with grade 1 being excellent, grade 2 average and grade 3 poor. We got a 9 cell grade 1 and a 4 cell grade 2 so it looks like we are down to one embryo now. We would love to be able to freeze the 9 cell but I know this is the hardest part now where most drop off. Although on the plus side we had a 9 cell grade 1 last time and it made it to a fully hatched blast so we will see but not getting my hopes up too much.

Gosh Happy that does not sound good. Hopefully you get sorted ASAP now. I take it the smear was no problem? I have a full bag of needles that I asked for and the nurse happily gave me before I got home and remembered I'm on gonal f and cetroride which both have their own needles anyway!

Yes Sesame it's been 3 months now but we are getting there, hopefully another month max. fx this new protocol is much better for you, I don't get all my drugs until just before I need them, not sure if my clinic are just always cautious or not!

Minx, I'm over the moon at the moment! This protocol has been terrible for us. Out of the 3 eggs retrieved even one of those was not mature so I was completely expecting these remaining 2 eggs to be poor quality as well. One of which is so I am really surprised that the other has made it to 9 cells and is excellent quality! If we could get this one to blast and frozen we would be so happy but as I said that is a long way off yet and I am not getting my hopes up at all. We are going back for another round of treatment in September whatever the outcome so if none of these make it it's not the end of the world but it would be amazing to have one little blast to start off our collection

Yes I think I'm all sorted now thanks ladies. Everything seems to be there so I'm ready to join stabbers anonymous! It's now very obvious why the waiting list is so long - no organisation whatsoever!
Beaky they didn't even ask about the smear but to be fair they didn't know their arse from their elbow. The nurse read my dose as 37.5 instead of 375. I don't think 37.5 would get me half a follie!!
Had a very stressful afternoon making DH a birthday cake for when the family come around later. Here it is... Just hope it doesn't fall apart before he sees it

Haha Minx Flicking the bubble! I had a couple last night too but then I took a very casual attitude and left them since they were quite small that chicken gizzard thing sounds disgusting! Poor women.

Happy that cake is amazing!
Also pleased you finally got sorted, at least you know what you're doing anyway!

ARE THEY KITKATS? amazing work happy! Especially on top of your less than perfect appointment earlier - glad you've got what you need but you're right that for people with no prior experience, or berries for support, that would be really confusing and would knock your confidence.

beaky hope stabbing is continuing ok. We had to live with DHs Mum for about 6 months before we moved into our house, it was pretty hard work - can't imagine dealing with this bollocks on top too!

sesame did your drugs arrive OK? Do you start tomorrow?

lucie fx for your embies! Sending lots of positive multiplication vibes their way.

minx snapping the diluent ampoule is probably my favourite stabbing 'job'. I find it weirdly satisfying! Glad it's going well!

Follies continuing well so far, left has 5 between 13-16mm and right has 6 between 9-19mm. Nurse seemed confident that if growth continued at that rate I'll be good to trigger on Monday. Fingers crossed! A bit of my menopur jab leaked out of the needles this eve, hoping that won't be a problem!

Yes Rain a lot of Kit Kats!! Glad your follies are progressing nicely. Just did my first stab. The needles they've given me for the Buserelin are mahoosive and made me bleed. Think I'll use the ones I have left from my other cycles as they were tiny. Don't add in the Menopur until tomorrow so no crazy mixing until then!

Hello all, finally managed to log back in and change password after all the hacking shenanigans!

So beaky Jada pinkett-smith was my mam?! Does that mean Will Smith was my dad? Awesome - the drugs definitely bring on weird dreams! How's the stabbing going? Crazy/sad/fine - i think that's a berries life eh beaky. Big hug and hope that today is a fine day.

rain it sounds as though you are doing brilliantly and getting a perfect response. Pom poms are out in force for next week!

Interesting debate about transfers. I have to say that I would go with the doctors advice on the day - leaving the big decisions to someone else alleviates some of stress.

lucie sorry to hear things aren't quite happening as planned. It only takes one though, and it sounds as though you have one embryo looking very good. I don't think I could resist having it popped back as I'm so impatient, but it certainly sounds like a good start to your collection.

How are you feeling about getting started again sesame? Hope you had a nice evening with your friend. I always forget to hide the vitamins on the kitchen window sill!

Chicken gizzards?! Blurgh minx! Although tbf if someone told me it a dead cert I'd get on it right away! Love that you and beaky are at mustachio towers at the same time. How's it all going.

happy the joys of the NHS! Although my new clinic seem dead efficient. Glad your getting going again. Amazing cake, I'm very impressed - did DH like it? I showed Mr T and didn't understand how he guessed that you were welsh until he explained about the brains!

Well, the consultation on Thurs was ok. The plus side is I get two more funded goes - my new ccg funds two cycles, even if you have had one elsewhere. Just knowing that makes me feel a lot better. They were quite shitty with me about dh not being able to make it (even though the person who rang to give me the appointment said it didn't matter) and refused to register him in his absence. They are redoing my AMH and told me my last clinic ripped me off by charging £100 to do it. They also do a folicle count scan, so it all feels a bit more comprehensive. The massive downside is that my follow up isn't until 19 November! So looks like Dec earliest to get started. I could have cried. I can't bear the thought of waiting that long. I will be ringing all the time for cancellations. The doc I saw was quite unfriendly and very dismissive of anything I said. By the end I was blinking back the tears and just nodding at whatever he said. I have to cancel the NK biopsy as they don't want me to do it and also claimed it would jeopardize my funding. I think that's BS but I'm not risking it and also the benefits of it being like a scratch won't help as I'm unlikely to start in the next three months. So all in all a mixed bag. I guess in the meantime just keep on plodding on....

Still, it's Saturday, I'm home for the first time in ages, and looking forward to chilling with the hound and the boy . Brunch out and choosing my new specs are the first things on the agenda.

Hope everyone else is doing ok?

Another pregnancy announcement this morning...happy for them, sad for us. It is unbearable sometimes.

Happy how did the cake go down?

Rain that's brilliant follie growth, good luck for Monday and roll on ec after that! All seems to be going well so far

Tiger gosh that is a long wait, I hope you can get a cancellation. What will they do about Mr T? I have only been to one appointment on my own and it was awful so I try to avoid that. Although next sat dh is away so I'll have go on my own then and try and take in their instructions Anyway, sorry that your consultant didn't have a better bedside manner, you'd think they would in this job. Did he say anything helpful about immunes/ being celiac etc? did he give you any idea of what protocol to try next time? Have a lovely day with Mr T and the tigerpuppy anyway.

Oh just saw your other post Tiger, so sorry. It's just so difficult as we just want to be there ourselves so much. Big hug

He dismissed the immunes/Coeliacs link out of hand and said that based on my stats and results to date he was confident I would get pg. I wish I felt as confident...

beaky 3 months must feel like a long time but glad you can see the end of it now. Have you just bought a new house then? Or is it a more ambitious build type project?

happy fantastic cake! I hope it went down well! Sorry about the nasty needles making you bleed. If you have some leftover needles look for some short yellow ones. What protocol are you on by the way?

rain congrats for the lovely folli growth. Fingers crossed for some good news on Monday. at snapping the ampoule, sounds like you are getting into your mixing ritual now...

minx you will make an expert yet. When is your scan?

lucie fingers crossed that 9 celler grows into a nice blast to start your collection.

tiger that's very good news about 2 funded rounds. If it comes to it a few months wait to get everything you're entitled to will be worth it. Sorry the consultant you saw was a bit of an arse tho, but hopefully they can help you. Am I right in thinking you are now at wild's old clinic? If so, at least they have some great success rates rather than the mediocre ones at my clinic

Yes I've got all my drugs now thank you and also a silly amount of needles and syringes. I didn't have all that mixing shenanigans last time as I was on gonal f and a long lasting injection. Everything's currently squirreled away in the bottom of my wardrobe. Will return to kitchen table when friend goes, ready to start stabbing on Monday.

Have a lovely Saturday all!

Morning Berries. The cake was very well received. Stressful day yesterday between the farcical appt and having both families round last night. Heading to the coast now for some R & R for DH's birthday.
Tiger good news that you get 2 more funded goes but the wait is frustrating. I had the 'I'm sure it'll work' speech from my consultant too. She basically said she wouldn't suggest doing any further tests or changing anything. On the one hand it's reassuring that they have such confidence but I'd like to know how she knows there isn't some hidden issue!
Sesame I'm short protocol (I never know whether it's flare or not!!). Started the Buserelin last night and add in Menopur tonight. I'm feeling a bit rough today - headache and very hot. Couldn't be the drugs already? I'm on a higher dose this time (0.5 instead of 0.3) and didn't have any side effects last time.
Lucie any news from you? Did you stay on in Prague or come straight back?
Hope everyone else is ok. Have a fab weekend all.